A friend aborted THREE babies with down syndrome!

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There are serial murderers and many people without consciences who just haven’t had the opportunity. If she had any scruples, she would have had ONE abortion and made sure she never conceived again. People rationalize one abortion ( as immoral as it is) the subsequent ones prove she is shallow and cold. Children are accessories to her- woe to any elderly she has power of atty over.
 
You know, I’m pro-abortion, but I think aborting a baby because it has down syndrome is truly horrific. I would be shocked in your position.

You just have to remember that everyone has the right to live their life the way they want to. Even if you really disagree.
 
silicasandra said:
I realize that the condition does have varying degrees of severity, but the people I have met who have it are delightful and live with quite a high level of independence.
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Just to clarify, there are not varying degrees of ‘severity’ of Down syndrome…either you have it or you don’t…with that said, just like the rest of the population, everyone functions at various levels, regardless of the number of chromosomes they have.
Not all people with Down syndrome are delightful either and to speak in such broad generalizations is not fair to people with Ds. They have a full range of emotions just like everyone else. My daughter is sweet, crabby, annoying, funny, bossy, demanding, determined and a whole host of other adjectives…but I’m pretty sure her two brothers would never call her simply ‘delightful’ :rotfl:

I think others have spoken well about the likelihood of conceiving three babies in a row that all have trisomy 21, unless of course the mother or father happen to carry the type of Down syndrome that is hereditary (translocation). If it’s the mother then her chances of having a child are approximately 1 in 5 (which sounds like this woman’s exact count), and the father is 1 in 20-50.

What do I think about it? I think abortion is murder. I think genetic engineering is playing God and is wrong. I think people deserve a chance to live no matter what.
I will refrain from passing judgement on your friend, as difficult as that is for me given the topic. :banghead:
 
LauraMajestic said:
You know, I’m pro-abortion, but I think aborting a baby because it has down syndrome is truly horrific. I would be shocked in your position.
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aborting a baby because it has Down syndrome is truly horrific, but aborting it because it’s ‘not the right time’ is ok???:rolleyes:
 
h(name removed by moderator)forlife said:
aborting a baby because it has Down syndrome is truly horrific, but aborting it because it’s ‘not the right time’ is ok???:rolleyes:
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I’m not saying that I agree with abortion from a moral perspective. I say I’m ‘pro-abortion’ in that I support it being legal. If abortion were illegal imagine the illegal back-alley abortions. A truly horrific sight.

EDIT: Anyway, yes I would agree with what you said. Having an abortion because the ‘time is not right’ is perfectly understandable. No money or maybe just don’t want to have a baby. The fetus is technically not living so it isn’t murder. Having an abortion BECAUSE a child has down syndrome is totally different. It shows the parents wouldn’t want a child merely because it has down syndrome. It shows the parents are bigoted.
 
So is it worse to be a bigot than to just take an unborn’s life for a politically correct reason, say b/c the child was the result of a one night stand.

Back alley abortions? Worry about the sorry state of the legal abortion industry.
Not to mention, the cancer inducing pharmaceuticals women are given to make them
infertile. It’s really no wonder breast cancer has increased- check out cancer rates with IVF.

Abortion, birth control and many infertility txt destroy women’s health, having a child lowers the
rate of breast cancer for one.
 
bonvivantHermit said:
So is it worse to be a bigot than to just take an unborn’s life for a politically correct reason, say b/c the child was the result of a one night stand.

Back alley abortions? Worry about the sorry state of the legal abortion industry.
Not to mention, the cancer inducing pharmaceuticals women are given to make them
infertile. It’s really no wonder breast cancer has increased- check out cancer rates with IVF.

Abortion, birth control and many infertility txt destroy women’s health, having a child lowers the
rate of breast cancer for one.
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Well the fetus isn’t living. You aren’t taking a life because it never started.

And yes, legal abortions aren’t ideal, but, they are CERTAINLY better than back alley abortions and you know that.

I’m pretty sure condoms don’t damage a woman’s health.
 
bonvivantHermit said:
Here’s a fetus moving in womb- I don’t see a battery pack so I am guessing it is alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlUQoYi74nk&feature=related
And those “back street abortions” (a s few as there were) are far better than the millions of legal abortions we have today- fewer babies died when abortion was illegal.
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Just because something moves doesn’t mean it is alive. Something is literally not alive until it breathes: which a fetus at legal abortion stage doesn’t.

Also back alley abortions are truly horrific and many women still got abortions when it was illegal. It was mainly overlooked.

I know we aren’t going to agree with abortion. I’m simply stating scientific facts and you can interpret that how you like.
 
Actually, you are making up “facts” to prove life as we post back and forth. Are fish not alive b/c the breath under water? Medical science used to state LIFE begins at conception- in standard secular medical textbooks- before Roe v. Wade.

What you really mean, is that life doesn’t count until a woman says so…really? Life is relegated to choice- and that’s it. It’s really ageism and as we have seen discrimination against the disabled. For people with your argument - life begins when they decide to buy the stroller.
 
LauraMajestic said:
Just because something moves doesn’t mean it is alive. Something is literally not alive until it breathes: which a fetus at legal abortion stage doesn’t.

Also back alley abortions are truly horrific and many women still got abortions when it was illegal. It was mainly overlooked.

I know we aren’t going to agree with abortion. I’m simply stating scientific facts and you can interpret that how you like.
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Let me ask you a list of simple questions 🙂
  1. Is a baby that is born prematurely at 8 1/2 months alive?
  2. Is it murder to shred that baby to pieces, suffocate it to death with a pillow, break the neck?
  3. Is the property of “being alive” due to something internal in the baby or something external?
  4. If your answers are that (1) it is alive, (2) it is murder, and (3) it is internal, what changed in that “thing” if it had still been inside the womb at that time to make it ok to abort?
To ask bluntly, how does the geographical location of the “thing” change its property of being alive or not?
 
bonvivantHermit said:
Actually, you are making up “facts” to prove life as we post back and forth. Are fish not alive b/c the breath under water? Medical science used to state LIFE begins at conception- in standard secular medical textbooks- before Roe v. Wade.

What you really mean, is that life doesn’t count until a woman says so…really? Life is relegated to choice- and that’s it. It’s really ageism and as we have seen discrimination against the disabled. For people with your argument - life begins when they decide to buy the stroller.
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But fish DO breath!

You can make a philosophical argument that life begins at conception. Funnily enough I actually believe this. I don’t want to ever have an abortion hence lots of lovely contraception 👍

I’m simply stating modern scientific facts. According to Science, life begins when the fetus starts to breathe.
 
Eufrosnia said:
Let me ask you a list of simple questions 🙂
  1. Is a baby that is born prematurely at 8 1/2 months alive?
  2. Is it murder to shred that baby to pieces, suffocate it to death with a pillow, break the neck?
  3. Is the property of “being alive” due to something internal in the baby or something external?
  4. If your answers are that (1) it is alive, (2) it is murder, and (3) it is internal, what changed in that “thing” if it had still been inside the womb at that time to make it ok to abort?
To ask bluntly, how does the geographical location of the “thing” change its property of being alive or not?
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It changes when the fetus starts to breathe. I’m honestly not sure when this is but it’s long before a premature birth can happen.

And when the fetus starts to breathe abortion is illegal.
 
LauraMajestic said:
I’m simply stating modern scientific facts. According to Science, life begins when the fetus starts to breathe.
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Not to be pedantic but you need to be accurate here. So to state it accurately, many want to define that life begins when the fetus breathes.

This is a scientific definition in the sense that you can use it to verify if something meets that definition. But this definition might not be accurate on whether life actually begins when a fetus breaths in the first place.

Do you see the difference?
 
LauraMajestic said:
It changes when the fetus starts to breathe. I’m honestly not sure when this is but it’s long before a premature birth can happen.

And when the fetus starts to breathe abortion is illegal.
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So how did you come up with this criterion that “if it breathes, its alive?”

Should we simply let people die if they stop breathing then from a heart attack? Did they suddenly enter the “dead state” in which we could perhaps rip them to shreds?
 
Eufrosnia said:
Not to be pedantic but you need to be accurate here. So to state it accurately, many want to define that life begins when the fetus breathes.

This is a scientific definition in the sense that you can use it to verify if something meets that definition. But this definition might not be accurate on whether life actually begins when a fetus breaths in the first place.

Do you see the difference?
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I did say ‘According to Science’ 😛

I’m just giving scientific facts and it’s up to you how you interpret it.
 
LauraMajestic said:
I did say ‘According to Science’ 😛

I’m just giving scientific facts and it’s up to you how you interpret it.
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Actually that is my point. It is not a Scientific fact that life begins at the first breath. It is a scientific DEFINITION.

So this is not a matter of interpretation. Confusion here can lead to error. I can define things anyway I want. But that does not make it fact.

I can say that “a woman is alive only when she has her first period”. That is a Scientific definition. NOT scientific fact.
 
Eufrosnia said:
So how did you come up with this criterion that “if it breathes, its alive?”

Should we simply let people die if they stop breathing then from a heart attack? Did they suddenly enter the “dead state” in which we could perhaps rip them to shreds?
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If a fetus hasn’t started to breathe it’s not alive. When it takes it’s first breath it reaches a state of life. This state of life makes a major difference. When a living person stops breathing they are in risk of dying rather than not being alive at all because they are in a state of life.

I hope this is clear. I know it is worded awkwardly 🤷
 
LauraMajestic said:
If a fetus hasn’t started to breathe it’s not alive. When it takes it’s first breath it reaches a state of life. This state of life makes a major difference. When a living person stops breathing they are in risk of dying rather than not being alive at all because they are in a state of life.

I hope this is clear. I know it is worded awkwardly 🤷
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This is not a matter of awkwardness. I am asking how you came to know this. Was it written on the baby that “I am not alive till I breathe”? 🤷
 
Eufrosnia said:
This is not a matter of awkwardness. I am asking how you came to know this. Was it written on the baby that “I am not alive till I breathe”? 🤷
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It’s down to scientific experiments done by experts in their field and countless tests.

I am obviously not a scientific expert 😛
 
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