A Glimpse of Purgatory?

[MotoCatholic]

I posted this as a “sidebar” to another post. I hope it’s ok to start this as a separate thread:

On an interesting side note - I watched this program last night, I think it’s called “I Survived…Beyond and Back,” where people tell their stories of what are essentially near-death experiences. One woman described first seeing “the light,” in which appeared her deceased mother and brother, calling to her to join them. Suddenly, she was somewhere else, somewhere negative and sorrowful, filled with souls walking on what she described as “the road leading to hell,” with faceless-entities keeping everyone in order…on their way to somewhere very bad. But then she heard a voice, that she described with certainty as the voice of God, saying “this is not your time.” She was then immediately back in her body in the hospital bed. She commented that it was shocking because “I am a Christian and I thought I was saved.” I wish they would have elaborated on that. Quite often people on this program descibe experiences that seem very consistent with what we, as Catholics, would call purgatory. The experiences are surprisingly consistent and similar. Others experience what could be considered hell itself. Very, very scary experiences! What is the Church’s position on these near-death experiences? Is it possible to be given a glimpse of purgatory, or even hell, and then be summoned back to your earthly body?? Thanks

 

[Bible_is_truth]

Church’s position on these near-death experiences? Is it possible to be given a glimpse of purgatory, or even hell, and then be summoned back to your earthly body?? Thanks

I Thank the Lord ,I know where I am going,I do not deny the reason Jesus died for me,to add anything else would, to me , be man’s rule’s .
I can only say ,this person, (if it is true what happened,) was given another chance to come to their senses ,I do not know what Faith that person was, I do know it was for a reason ,and to come back to Jesus and forgiveness .Jesus died once for all our Sins,there is no need for more sacrifices ,works or deeds ,this will not get you there as Ephesians 2 v 8 -10 explains .
It is a gift from God to Believers. I do not understand what part of the scripture people do not get.
Blessing

 

[exoflare]

I Thank the Lord ,I know where I am going,I do not deny the reason Jesus died for me,to add anything else would, to me , be man’s rule’s .
I can only say ,this person, (if it is true what happened,) was given another chance to come to their senses ,I do not know what Faith that person was, I do know it was for a reason ,and to come back to Jesus and forgiveness .Jesus died once for all our Sins,there is no need for more sacrifices ,works or deeds ,this will not get you there as Ephesians 2 v 8 -10 explains .
It is a gift from God to Believers. I do not understand what part of the scripture people do not get.
Blessing

Looks like the person in the story thought exactly the same as you:

She commented that it was shocking because "I am a Christian and I thought I was saved."

 

[svid2]

Some canonized saints claim to have had just such experiences. St. Teresa of Avila saw the place in hell reserved for her. The Church does not recognize or validate such claims.

 

[Mijoy2]

.Jesus died once for all our Sins,there is no need for more sacrifices ,works or deeds ,this will not get you there as Ephesians 2 v 8 -10 explains .
It is a gift from God to Believers. I do not understand what part of the scripture people do not get.
Blessing

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Good point Bible is Truth, thank for you this.

Yes, this is the Catholic understanding as well. It is by Grace we are saved. By the death of Christ on the Cross, no more needs to be done. His work was/is sufficient indeed.

Now we only need to conform to this, we must live in accordance with his desire that we all be saved. We must desire it ourselves; desire it enough to obey His teachings, to conform ourselves to His word; to trust and obey in His church. We do this by obeying his commandments, by loving God and loving one another as ourselves.

 

[Farsight001]

I Thank the Lord ,I know where I am going,I do not deny the reason Jesus died for me,to add anything else would, to me , be man’s rule’s .
I can only say ,this person, (if it is true what happened,) was given another chance to come to their senses ,I do not know what Faith that person was, I do know it was for a reason ,and to come back to Jesus and forgiveness .Jesus died once for all our Sins,there is no need for more sacrifices ,works or deeds ,this will not get you there as Ephesians 2 v 8 -10 explains .
It is a gift from God to Believers. I do not understand what part of the scripture people do not get.
Blessing

I’m curious as to your thoughts on Colossians 1:24 and how it pertains to your belief that there is no need for more.

 

[MotoCatholic]

Bible is Truth - I’m certainly no Bible/Scripture scholar, and did not intend to go down the road of salvation theology (although I love discussions like that, and I appreciate your comments). I’m a few years into a journey to understand my faith, and I want all questions-especially the tricky ones. It does seem clear, however, that the Bible says, in many places, that salvation is not guranteed, and one can certainly loose it. I don’t want to get into scripture references, except to say that someone smarter and better-versed than me could take up a lot of space listing them all. I’m sure if you checked a few references on this website, and I encourage you to do just that, you would get more information than the average person has time to read.

I totally agree that Jesus died on the cross for me, you, and all of us. Essentially, every one of our sins put him there. I agree, and thought the same thing, that it was a TV show so “caveat emptor.” They glossed right over the part that I found interesting. And I really was’nt thinking “see there’s the big surprise for the typical protestant.” I was actually thinking exactly what you said, “to come back to Jesus for forgiveness.” What a blessing Divine mercy is!

Peace and Love

 

[underacloud]

I find NDEs fascinating. The Church has no position on them and we may find that science comes up with a neurobiological explanation for them (currently there is no credible explanation in my opinion). But the stories people tell of them are very interesting, there are some remarkable consistencies, and people seem undeniably changed by the experiences. Do they give us a glimpse at the moments after death, heaven, hell, or purgatory? Perhaps.

 

[Uzziah1]

We have talked a great deal about Purgatory in our Bible study.

Purgatory is the means by which God imposes justice as to all things.

But, the suffering in Purgatory are happy. They have been suffused with a precise knowledge of God’s justice, so that whqat is being done to them makes perfect sense, and they know that ultimately they have “won the race, they have kept the faith.”

 

[grandfather]

Church’s position on these near-death experiences? Is it possible to be given a glimpse of purgatory, or even hell, and then be summoned back to your earthly body?? Thanks

I Thank the Lord ,I know where I am going,I do not deny the reason Jesus died for me,to add anything else would, to me , be man’s rule’s .
I can only say ,this person, (if it is true what happened,) was given another chance to come to their senses ,I do not know what Faith that person was, I do know it was for a reason ,and to come back to Jesus and forgiveness .Jesus died once for all our Sins,there is no need for more sacrifices ,works or deeds ,this will not get you there as Ephesians 2 v 8 -10 explains .
It is a gift from God to Believers. I do not understand what part of the scripture people do not get.
Blessing

Jesus died for you. You do not know your eternal dwelling place. We are judged by God when we die, not before.

If we have repented of our sins we will be saved. Jesus tells His apostles to go into all the nations of the world and “preach the gospel of repentance for forgiveness of sins”.

If you have repented of your sins and die now you will be with God forever.

When Jesus tells the pharisees that they will “die in their sins”, He is telling them they will be eternally lost. This is terrifying.

If you love God you will be saved. Jesus tells us, and in John’s epistle John tells us how we can know if we love God. It is not a feeling. “If a man loves me He will keep my commandments”. John writes, “The love of God consists in this, that we obey His commandments”.

We have to repent of our sins. People are misled to believe that it is ok to be sinful if you believe Jesus died for your sins. We are all sinful. Some people have repented and others have not.

We can each know whether or not we continue in our sins, or have been freed from their slavery. Your conscience tells you. If we persist in sin and believe that we are guaranteed salvation this is a deadly error.

 

[serviichristii]

We have talked a great deal about Purgatory in our Bible study.

Purgatory is the means by which God imposes justice as to all things.

But, the suffering in Purgatory are happy. They have been suffused with a precise knowledge of God’s justice, so that whqat is being done to them makes perfect sense, and they know that ultimately they have “won the race, they have kept the faith.”

id prefer to go straight to heaven

 

[grandfather]

id prefer to go straight to heaven

We hope you do.

Nothing imperfect can come before God, be in heaven. Another word for perfect is holy. When Jesus commands us, does not suggest, but commands, “Be ye holy, even as your heavenly Father is holy”, and in another equally good translation, “Be ye perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect”, He is telling us to be as holy as God is holy.

I am far from it. It sounds impossible. But if Jesus commands the impossible He would be unjust, and God is perfectly just.

Purgatory is a manifestation of God’s mercy. Between here and heaven we can be made perfectly holy to enter God’s presence.

 

[MotoCatholic]

I heard a beautiful comment today about salvation. I just happend to hear it, and considering this thread the timing was perfect. He (not sure of his name, but a Catholic theologian) was talking about the misguided and somewhat selfish nature of the presumption of salvation through faith, or just professing one’s belief in Jesus (I/he do not mean selfish in an accusatory way. I suspect most people hearing this for the first time had never contemplated this before).

So if you forget about all the references in the Bible to salvation NOT being guaranteed, or that one can loose their salvation, and you simply consider “what would I DO” to ensure my salvation (again, the critically important but kind-of selfish fixation on “my salvation”), You would probably fall immediately in line with bedrock Catholic doctrine: 1) You love God completely and unselfishly 2) You live a truly Holy life, in everything you do you give glory to God 3) your salvation is then left to Him, and through grace and mercy probably follows as a given. The big difference is the starting point - Loving and glorifying God by living a holy life, NOT being more worried about, and constantly fixated on, your own salvation.

I’m not sure if this partly why I’m Catholic, or that I believe this because I’m Catholic…but even before I understood anything about the “salvation divide” between Catholics and protestants it just seemed self-evident to me that if you loved God, you would DO everything you could to show Him - you would LIVE your life in a way that glorified Him. Even in highschool, when I’m sorry to say I knew nothing about nothing, and my protestant friends would constantly say to me “read this verse and you’ll be saved,” I just felt that something was lacking, something was wrong. Now that I’m striving to learn more, I’m even more confident in the utter incompleteness of “faith alone.”

And the really bizzare thing to me now is that, almost without exception, my protestant friends are some of the best people, best Christians that I know. They are striving to live a holy life. I’m sure they do love God. They are proudly Christian. And they completely reject almost anything and everything Catholic, seemingly just because it’s Catholic. I often think to myself that these people would be amazing Catholics - they would simply love the fullness and richness of the Catholic faith. All I can do is keep praying and trying!

 

[DMIMS]

Type in ’ st faustina visions of heaven’ and you’ll get excerpts from her diary on heaven, hell and purgatory. She is a canonized saint and so I believe her. Peace

 

[styrgwillidar]

Church’s position on these near-death experiences? Is it possible to be given a glimpse of purgatory, or even hell, and then be summoned back to your earthly body?? Thanks

Well, I’m sorry, Jesus said something quite different as to how we will be judged to determine if we had faith in him:

Matthew 25, 32-:
'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.
He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.

Then the King will say to those on his right hand, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me."

Then the upright will say to him in reply, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you?

When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?"

And the King will answer, “In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me.”

Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink, I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me."

Then it will be their turn to ask, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?”

Then he will answer, “In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me.”

And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.’

So. Christ indicated here, and in many other passages in the bible where He instructs us to keep His commandments, love one another, love even our enemies that faith is manifested through actions. The letter of James is very explicit- Faith without works is dead, it is not faith at all but an empty statement.

ETA: This passage has always interested me in that Christ is saying we will be judged as much for our sins of omission as we are for sins of comission, perhaps more so.*

 

[fred_conty]

If anyone wishes to know more about purgatory, read “Get Us Out Of Here” by Maria Simma.
She has first hand knowledge and experience with those in purgatory. Many of which have appeared to her and asked favors of her prayers. She has asked questions of them and they have replied with some amazing answers. It is worth while to read. She is a mystic and well thought of.

Just a suggestion.

 

[MotoCatholic]

fred - thanks, I will check it out. Since discovering Catholic Answers radio a few months ago, I have a list of books I want to read that’s way longer than the amount of time I have to read them! But I’ll try.

 

[Bible_is_truth]

If anyone wishes to know more about purgatory, read “Get Us Out Of Here” by Maria Simma.
She has first hand knowledge and experience with those in purgatory. Many of which have appeared to her and asked favors of her prayers. She has asked questions of them and they have replied with some amazing answers. It is worth while to read. She is a mystic and well thought of.
…
Just a suggestion.

Do not be deceived by anyone who claims to have spoken to the dead,Satan is VERY clever ,test the spirit first ,any spirit that doe’s not confess Jesus is Lord, as in
1 John 4 v 1 - 3 …
Deuteronomy 18 v 11 … Luke 16 v 26…
any one will be unwise to believe Maria Simmons ,she may well have first hand ,at Satans hand yes…
Please take note,it is so easy to be deceived in the last day’s.
Believe in God’s word,
Blessings

 

[timotheos]

Do not be deceived by anyone who claims to have spoken to the dead,Satan is VERY clever ,test the spirit first ,any spirit that doe’s not confess Jesus is Lord, as in
1 John 4 v 1 - 3 …
Deuteronomy 18 v 11 … Luke 16 v 26…
any one will be unwise to believe Maria Simmons ,she may well have first hand ,at Satans hand yes…
Please take note,it is so easy to be deceived in the last day’s.
Believe in God’s word,
Blessings

Yes, by all means believe in God’s word! But belief is not an all-or-none thing, as Peter and most of the others found out on late Holy Thursday and Good Friday – you can SAY you believe all you want, but are you ready to sacrifice everything you know for your belief? As for me, my belief is imperfect, and I can’t imagine being in heaven with God all the while retaining my weaknesses and faults. I know the pain that my weaknesses cause Jesus, and I want them purged!!! And if I can’t manage to do this completely on earth, let it happen before heaven!

 

[vz71]

any one will be unwise to believe Maria Simmons ,she may well have first hand ,at Satans hand yes…

Somehow I doubt Satan will tell us to go to Mass, celebrate the sacramants regularly, to go to confession often, etc.

However, if you believe that this can somehow be distorted to such a degree that it could lead someone to hell, then you would be best avoiding this book.