A Harvard neurosurgeon's evidence for life after death

[tonyrey]

                             It's strange how evidence for NDE's arouses antagonism and  hostility on the part of both Christians and non-believers. For some  reason they cannot discuss the subject objectively...

Subsequent posts have confirmed that observation. They have completely ignored all the facts I have listed…

 

[tonyrey]

To any skeptic who thinks he has explained my experience as brain-based, he then needs to address the non-local nature of consciousness ~ the broad clinical experience in transpersonal psychology (notably all of the past life clinical work, the reincarnation work from Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker at UVA; also very relevant in terms of how I remembered so much) and address the overwhelming tsunami of evidence of the phenomena of non-local consciousness in Irreducible Mind (edited by Ed Kelly et alia, 2007) and Consciousness Beyond Life (Pim van Lommel, 2009)…

The thalamus, basal ganglia, and brainstem are deeper brain structures (“subcortical regions”) that some colleagues postulated might have contributed to the processing of such hyperreal experiences. In fact, all agreed that none of those structures could play any such role without having at least some regions of the neocortex still functional. All agreed in the end that such subcortical structures alone could not have handled the intense neural calculations required for such a richly interactive experiential tapestry.
There are 9 hypotheses discussed in an appendix of my book that I derived based on conversations with colleagues. None of them explained the hyper-reality in any brain-based fashion.

skeptiko.com/sam-harris-wont-debate-eben-alexander-on-near-death-experience-science/

Are there any other theories - positive or negative - (rather than opinions) of the nature of Dr Alexander’s experience?

 

[cornbread_r2]

C’mon now…This is a Catholic Answers Forum. We should be charitable, no?

If merely substantiating and objecting to what I consider to be ethical breaches such as one I cited is uncharitable by CAF standards, then it’s a wonder we haven’t all been banned.

 

[Evania]

Don’t let pride overrule kindness…That’s all I’m saying.
God Bless!

 

[tonyrey]

… such subcortical structures** alone** could not have handled the intense neural calculations required for such a richly interactive experiential tapestry…skeptiko.com/sam-harris-wont-debate-eben-alexander-on-near-death-experience-science/

This is the insurmountable problem that has not been solved by the sceptics. It comes as no surprise for those who believe the mind is not dependent on the brain - a belief for which there is abundant evidence. The alternative is to reject our power to choose what to believe!

This is a case where philosophical analysis supercedes science…

 

[tonyrey]

I am afraid it is you who lacks objectivity in your views on this issue. This has, at least implicitly, been pointed out to you by several posters here.

Your fear is unjustified! And your assertion remains unsubstantiated…

 

[tonyrey]

I am not sure I understand what you mean. But I think that all true supernatural experiences (in so far as the source is supernatural in nature) cannot be in and of themselves direct experiences of the supernatural; but rather they are physical analogies of transcendent realities. This is to say that it is possible that a supernatural entity could use our physical experiences, as they are present in our memories, as ingredients to form some kind of vision communicating some kind meaning or command. But we cannot directly experience a supernatural reality as it truly is in itself except through the medium of our physical experiences, and that is simply because the supernatural is non-physical. In the Bible we see physical descriptions of angels, not non-physical descriptions of angels.

I am not saying that the source cannot be supernatural. But science cannot determine that a physical analogy of the supernatural is in fact supernatural, because the analogies by themselves are not supernatural even if the cause of it is.

Your analysis is a possible solution but it is based on the belief that there is an untraversable gulf between natural and supernatural reality. If that were the case we would lack the power of self-control because all our mental activity would be determined by physical events. As far as science is concerned the self doesn’t even exist!

There seems no reason why there shouldn’t be interaction between the two aspects of reality…

 

[Ben_Quincy]

Moderator’s Note:

Play nice.

 

[dandingo]

Dr. Eben Alexander did an interview on Dennis Prager’s show. I’m a Pragertopia member and have the interview in MP3. It’s extremely interesting. If you’re interested, I can email it to you. PM me if so.

 

[awsiukiewicz]

Greetings; I always weigh-in NDE stories with a plausible big grain salt without trying to be overly skeptical, still keeping an open mind while keeping the Church’s teachings in mind.

There’s so much we don’t know beyond scripture about the supernatural world which in reality is far more real than the vast illusionary world we live in confined by five primitive human senses.

Still; I’m not convinced idealized secular human science in all its loftiness and advancememts will ever be able prove life after death or for that matter even that God Himself exist without serving some alterior motive to glorify human science for its own namesake and ego.

Belief in God and Life after Death belongs to Faith alone.

As for NDE experiences? IMHO with a huge (“if”), if they are plausibly, I believe their private revelations for the the soul in question. Kinda makes me ask why someone would want to share such a personal revelation risking ridicule.

Peace
Chris

 

[awsiukiewicz]

I can appreciate your position…and don’t totally disagree with some of your comments…however…having a Medical background…I read Dr.Alexander’s book…Proof of Heaven…with an open mind…I suggest you perhaps read it…a good friend of mine read it and was disapointed that it didn’t have enough graphic info regarding his visions of Heaven…I, unlike my friend…found, from a purely medical/scientific approach…his experience fascinating…try to read his story as you would a text book…sounds funny I know…but this man is a scientist…MD/PhD…academic…neuroscience…his prefrontal cortex was pus…no activity…therefore no real possiblity that his experience was the result of hypoxemia/lack of oxygen…not to mention the individual he met on this journey…this was a man who only had a nominal belief in a Diety…has/had nothing to gain from sharing his experience…particularly with a group of other, some I’m sure, arrogant physicians who would look at him as crazy…I respectively suggest you read his book…with an open mind of course…by the way…I’m not the kind of person that needs stories such as this to substantiate Heaven or Hell for me…but…there is a preponderance of info out there …makes interesting reading…PAX

 

[tonyrey]

I can appreciate your position…and don’t totally disagree with some of your comments…however…having a Medical background…I read Dr.Alexander’s book…Proof of Heaven…with an open mind…I suggest you perhaps read it…a good friend of mine read it and was disapointed that it didn’t have enough graphic info regarding his visions of Heaven…I, unlike my friend…found, from a purely medical/scientific approach…his experience fascinating…try to read his story as you would a text book…sounds funny I know…but this man is a scientist…MD/PhD…academic…neuroscience…his prefrontal cortex was pus…no activity…therefore no real possiblity that his experience was the result of hypoxemia/lack of oxygen…not to mention the individual he met on this journey…this was a man who only had a nominal belief in a Diety…has/had nothing to gain from sharing his experience…particularly with a group of other, some I’m sure, arrogant physicians who would look at him as crazy…I respectively suggest you read his book…with an open mind of course…by the way…I’m not the kind of person that needs stories such as this to substantiate Heaven or Hell for me…but…there is a preponderance of info out there …makes interesting reading…PAX

Thank you for those good points. My philosophical background has made me cautious about individual revelations but in this case the scientific evidence makes it difficult to deny Dr Alexander’s account is authentic. The details of his description are less important than his ability to recall events at all - which is further evidence that brain activity does not explain all the powers of the mind. Far from being primitive the distinction between body and spirit stems from an intuitive recognition of the richness of reality.