A Jehovah's Witness just called me

[St_Donatus]

I’ve got Lady a (sometimes two) that likes to come by every couple months and drop off a copy of “Awake!” she thinks I need to read and tell me all about what the Bible says. It is really starting to be frustrating because of the disruption of it. This afternoon she came buy and dropped off an amusing “Awake!” about “Doomsday: Fact Fiction and Fantasy”. It occurred to me after she left, next time I should ask here where she gets that Bible she likes to quote, and how she personally knows its the inspired Word of God ect. Any of you have any (name removed by moderator)ut and what would be good reading between now and then and or if there is a better angle to take with her?

This is kind of a repeat from earlier in this thread but having just left the JWs, this line of argument was the best for me. Of course, put it in your own words but ask her the following questions:

First ask them why they use a Catholic Book to prove Jehovah’s Witnesses beliefs?

If they say it wasn’t, tell them that the letters and books of the Bible were compiled, then put together in a single book, by the Catholic church. The Catholic church decided which letters and books of the thousands available were inspired by God.

If they agree on this point, then ask them if they believe that the Catholic Church is under Satan’s control?

If they say yes, ask them why God would have allowed Satan to determine what was put in the Bible?

They probably will not be able to answer your question or come up with some worthless excuse.

Now ask them when 99% of the worlds population got access to the Bible? The answer is about 1800 when it became cheap enough for most people to purchase a Bible. I have inserted the timeline below.

Now given that 99% of the people in the world didn’t have access to a Bible, how did God give Christians who loved him and served him, knowledge about Jesus Christ?

They may say something stupid like word of mouth. If they do then ask them why we need the Bible then?

The main point is that these Christians who loved God and served God had to have learned about God and Christ from the Catholic Church since it was the only organization with access to its own book.

Would God allow a Satanic organization be the only source by which people might learn about Jesus and God? Of course not. Thus God had to have been using the Catholic Church for 1800 years. Why would he stop using that same organization but instead switch to a furniture salesman, Charles Taze Russell?

Again, they may have some lame excuses and reasoning, or they may say they have to do research on it.

Most likely, they will never return again, but there is a chance that they may remember what you said and start wondering themselves.

If they do come back, keep pounding on this same point because they really don’t have an good reasoning on it. DON’T let them change the subject. You have to be aggressive with them because they have learned how to act humble but still be aggressive.

Here is the history of the development of the Bible.
#1 QUESTION: When was the Bible available to the average person?
ANSWER: The Catholic Church compiled the Bible around 397 ad. In the 1400s the printing press was invented but printing was extremely expensive. Around the year 1800 the printers were able to produce Bibles at a price most middle class people could afford. Otherwise, the Bible wasn’t directly available for reading to 99% of people in the world until about the year 1800.

#2 QUESTION: If the Bible hadn’t been compiled until 397, how did Christians learn about Jesus?
ANSWER: Verbally when attending services at the only Christian organization, the Catholic Church.

#3 QUESTION: If the Bible wasn’t available to even the wealthy (only Catholic clergy had access to the expensive hand written Bible until the 1400s), how did Christians learn about Jesus?
ANSWER: As read and preached to them while attending services at the only Christian church organization, the Catholic Church.

#4 QUESTION: If the Bible wasn’t available to the masses (only Catholic clergy had access to the expensive printed Bibles until the 1800s), how did Christians learn about Jesus?
ANSWER: As read and preached to them while attending services at the only original Christian church organization, the Catholic Church.

So for the first 1800 years, only the Catholic Church had the means to bring the truth about Jesus to the masses, and it is through a Catholic Book that people learn about Jesus even up until today.

#5 QUESTION: Why would God use an evil religion to write the Bible and be the ONLY source of information about Jesus Christ for the first 1800 years of Christianity?
ANSWER: The Catholic Church is still the ONLY source about TRUE information about Jesus Christ.

 

[John_Lazarus]

East Anglican:

Quote:
There’s usually always two of them, a master and an apprentice.

You make them sound like the Sith.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Sacredheart1208]

I love you response to the Jehovah Witness! You were not rude at all, you were just sticking to your beliefs. I applaud you for not being run over, whenever they come to my door I don’t have the courage to speak like that, but if the Lord wills it I will from now on! Good job!

 

[T_More]

All too often, JW’s don’t even realize when they have been beaten in an argument. There is a false assumption that they “know their stuff”, or, “know how to argue”. This is only applies as long as they can stick to their script and control the direction of the discussion. I have said this many times on this forum, cut to the chase with them and establish who has the authority given to them by Christ. Engaging with them about Christ’s divinity, the Trinity, Hell, etc. is a waste of time until they can be shown that the Catholic Church, not the Watchtower, not the International Bbible Students, can trace it’s existence back to the Apostles.The onus is on them to prove who the faithful and discreet slave was before Charles Taze Russell.They are a heretical sect, of a heretical sect, of a herectical sect…

 

[LadyLionheart]

Holly3278,
After reading what you had to say, I think you were plenty nice. Anyone else would have done the unChristian thing and hang up, but you were polite. While doing that, you also defended your faith. All-in-all, you did a great job.
Marianne

 

[St_Donatus]

All too often, JW’s don’t even realize when they have been beaten in an argument. There is a false assumption that they “know their stuff”, or, “know how to argue”. This is only applies as long as they can stick to their script and control the direction of the discussion. I have said this many times on this forum, cut to the chase with them and establish who has the authority given to them by Christ. Engaging with them about Christ’s divinity, the Trinity, Hell, etc. is a waste of time until they can be shown that the Catholic Church, not the Watchtower, not the International Bbible Students, can trace it’s existence back to the Apostles.The onus is on them to prove who the faithful and discreet slave was before Charles Taze Russell.They are a heretical sect, of a heretical sect, of a herectical sect…

Great point. That is it exactly. They can prove anything they want from the Bible, if you take it out of context, but they can’t prove that the Watchtower as any connection with Christ. For example, they try to teach that there was an unbroken line of Jehovah’s Witnesses back to Jesus. Ask them then who gave Charles Taze Russell the truth. They can’t. Now ask them that if Charles Taze Russell had the truth, why don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses today believe the same basic teachings as Charles Taze Russell taught. If Holy Spirit guided him, it would have given him the whole truth back then. But the Catholic Church doesn’t need to change its teachings because they came directly from Christ and the Holy Spirit helps the Church implement those teachings through the sacraments, etc.

 

[Reuben_J]

I love you response to the Jehovah Witness! You were not rude at all, you were just sticking to your beliefs. I applaud you for not being run over, whenever they come to my door I don’t have the courage to speak like that, but if the Lord wills it I will from now on! Good job!

It helps if you can tell them about the strength of your own faith. I had two JWs at my door. My house was under renovation and it was quite messy. I had to talk to them outside the gate. I thought they were Mormons – a man and a lady, quite decently dressed.

Their first question to strike a conversation was, “What do you think that make a happy family?” Thanks God I am quite deep in family ministry and I was able, in fact , talked quite a lot on this topic. They tried to refer to Biblical verses and I would speak even more regarding them. Actually I enjoyed myself. It was an opportunity for me to evangelize a bit. The main thrust of what I was trying to say to them is that believing in the God is more than just merely belief but that we truly believe that the words are true and have conviction in our hearts and truly live them in our lives.

They did not have any more to say and asked to leave a flier which I gladly accepted. I commended them for brave enough to go house to house spreading the Good News which I would find difficult to do myself. I went through it and found out they were actually JWs.

 

[St_Donatus]

It helps if you can tell them about the strength of your own faith. I had two JWs at my door. My house was under renovation and it was quite messy. I had to talk to them outside the gate. I thought they were Mormons – a man and a lady, quite decently dressed.

Their first question to strike a conversation was, “What do you think that make a happy family?” Thanks God I am quite deep in family ministry and I was able, in fact , talked quite a lot on this topic. They tried to refer to Biblical verses and I would speak even more regarding them. Actually I enjoyed myself. It was an opportunity for me to evangelize a bit. The main thrust of what I was trying to say to them is that believing in the God is more than just merely belief but that we truly believe that the words are true and have conviction in our hearts and truly live them in our lives.

They did not have any more to say and asked to leave a flier which I gladly accepted. I commended them for brave enough to go house to house spreading the Good News which I would find difficult to do myself. I went through it and found out they were actually JWs.

As a former JW, you did the best thing for them. They have a very good system. If you are hostile to them, they feel good about it because it is a sign that Satan is attacking their ministry. If you are nice to them and show you know your Bible (and don’t allow them to bounce from scripture to scripture), it is hard for them to write you off as another ‘evil’ member of a false religion. As I have said in the past, the most important thing is to not allow them to bounce from scripture to scripture. Hold their fee to the fire and make them read the scripture in context. Of course, most likely they still won’t get it but at least you won’t be overwelmed. Good job.

 

[handel_evans]

A Jehovah’s Witness just called me. I am paraphrasing in this whole post but she said “I would like to know if I could share some stuff from the Bible with you on suffering.” I replied “Mam, what religion do you belong to?” and she said “I am a Jehovah’s Witness.” I said, “I am sorry but I am not interested. I am a devout Catholic.” and she proceeded to talk some more. She said, “What do you know about the Jehovah’s Witnesses?” and I said “I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity but I can assure you it is true.” She replied “Well, we don’t believe in the Trinity because there is no support for it in the Bible.” and I replied “Actually there is a lot of support for it in the Bible. If you want, you could give me your e-mail address and I could send you a few links where you could read about the Biblical support for the Trinity.” and she said, “No, I am not interested in that.” Then I said, “Well, I’ll be honest with you and I mean no offense here but I believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a cult and that it is not Christian.” and she said, “Well I am sure a lot of people can say similar things about your religion but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.” I then said, “Well, that’s what I believe. Goodbye.” and then I hung up the phone.

So, I am sincerely hoping that I wasn’t too rude to her. I certainly didn’t intend to be rude to her. However, I ended the phone call when I saw that the conversation was going nowhere and I just didn’t feel like continuing to talk if we weren’t going to make any progress as to whether or not her religion was true or mine is true.

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback on my conversation with her. Again, as I said, I did not intend to be rude. I hope I wasn’t. If I was, there is no way for me to apologize because I do not have her phone number because I don’t have caller ID. So, any feedback?

 

[handel_evans]

handel_evans:
Having had many a battle with jws i object to them calling on Cristmas day when we are celebrating the birth of Jesus. They always are doom and gloom what about the beauty of the world, love between family and friends,and so on. as for the Trinity instead of quoting the bible all the time read the bibile it’s all in there.
Why cant they enjoy their religion and leave us happy with ours alone. i said to one if you are truly religious sell your smart suit come back in sack-cloth and we will talk again.

 

[East_Anglican]

Why cant they enjoy their religion and leave us happy with ours alone. i said to one if you are truly religious sell your smart suit come back in sack-cloth and we will talk again.

Because they follow the Bible as if it is a rule book rather than follow the risen Christ. Following rules is not enjoyable.

 

[jrtrent]

Having had many a battle with jws i object to them calling on Cristmas day when we are celebrating the birth of Jesus. They always are doom and gloom what about the beauty of the world, love between family and friends,and so on. as for the Trinity instead of quoting the bible all the time read the bibile it’s all in there.
Why cant they enjoy their religion and leave us happy with ours alone. i said to one if you are truly religious sell your smart suit come back in sack-cloth and we will talk again.

I didn’t have any battles with Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I did study with them for an extended period. I heard nothing of doom and gloom in their teachings or interactions–their proclamation that “You can live forever in paradise on Earth” is not what I would characterize as doom and gloom, nor was the joyful expectation of that end for a beloved member who was dying of cancer–sadness at his parting, yes, but not doom and gloom.

They are an exclusivist religion; you don’t enjoy that paradise without, at some point, accepting JW teachings. Like missionaries have done since the founding of the Christian faith, they share what they know so that others don’t miss out on what God offers. They wear suits to show respect for the task they are engaged in and for the people whom they call upon.

 

[Regardless]

… I did study with them for an extended period. I heard nothing of doom and gloom in their teachings or interactions–their proclamation that “You can live forever in paradise on Earth” is not what I would characterize as doom and gloom, …

Hey thanks for saying that.

People often get alot of half truths told about us, and that we “want the end of the world” is one of them. - They just never mention that it’s the end of this system run by Satan with all it’s injustice and suffering we are waitng to end! And it will be replaced by something like God originally purposed. They pray for it themselves in the Lords Prayer. “Let your kingdom come.” - But critisize us when we talk about it. Oh well.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[agnes_therese]

Hey thanks for saying that.

People often get alot of half truths told about us, and that we “want the end of the world” is one of them. - They just never mention that it’s the end of this system run by Satan with all it’s injustice and suffering we are waitng to end! And it will be replaced by something like God originally purposed. They pray for it themselves in the Lords Prayer. “Let your kingdom come.” - But critisize us when we talk about it. Oh well.

Thanks for your thoughts.

And that’s why many of us are so happy to have non-catholics on these forums. Thank you for the correction.

 

[Regardless]

And that’s why many of us are so happy to have non-catholics on these forums. Thank you for the correction.

Enjoy your holidays.

 

[lonelypetunia]

We have been getting a lot of JW knocking on our doors lately. I’m very nice as I believe their motives are from the heart and coming from a good place, however, I always politely let them know I am content with where I am in regards to faith. If it’s really cold out I’ll usually offer up some hot coffee or coco… If it’s hot a nice cold glass of water. I have to say most times they are polite right back and move to the next house.

 

[Regardless]

We have been getting a lot of JW knocking on our doors lately. I’m very nice as I believe their motives are from the heart and coming from a good place, however, I always politely let them know I am content with where I am in regards to faith. If it’s really cold out I’ll usually offer up some hot coffee or coco… If it’s hot a nice cold glass of water. I have to say most times they are polite right back and move to the next house.

Wow. You are very kind. i wish we had more people like you in our area! I would fall over in shock if someone offered us hot choocolate.

 

[adf417]

Enjoy your holidays.

Speaking of corrections, I have a question for Regardless if you don’t mind…

Is it at all possible for a Jehovah’s Witness to be convinced and otherwise corrected that a Catholic, in full communion with the Catholic Church, does not worship Mary and that Jehovah’s Witness remain in the organization?

Thanks & Peace!!!

 

[St_Donatus]

Hey thanks for saying that.

People often get alot of half truths told about us, and that we “want the end of the world” is one of them. - They just never mention that it’s the end of this system run by Satan with all it’s injustice and suffering we are waitng to end! And it will be replaced by something like God originally purposed. They pray for it themselves in the Lords Prayer. “Let your kingdom come.” - But critisize us when we talk about it. Oh well.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Just like when JWs come to the door, they only give you half truths. They do want the ‘end of the world’. It is written in their literature. I know, I was one for over 20 years. They are looking forward to when all people except JWs will be killed at Armageddon. Yes, they don’t believe that the Earth will be destroyed, just that all mankind (except JWs) will be destroyed. Sorry but that is the truth. You can sugar coat it, but that is the truth. In reality, their love of people is part of what keeps them preaching. They don’t want to see good people get destroyed at Armageddon, so they preach to save them. Very commendable.

Interesting that ‘Regardless’ quotes the ‘Lords Prayer’ but ask a JW to pray it with you and they will refuse to. They won’t say it. It is amazing how they can twist words and make themselves look wonderful.

Yes, most of them are basically good people, just as most devout Catholics are good people, but which religion has been teaching the same thing for its whole existence, Catholics. JWs change their teachings whenever it is convenient. If Holy Spirit were guiding them, they would have the truth at the beginning, no need to change the teachings. Catholics don’t need to change their core teachings. Originally JWs believed the Armageddon would come in 1875, then when it didn’t happen, 1914, then when that didn’t happen it was around 1925, then that didn’t happen and it was moved to 1975, then somewhere around 1995. Now there is no specific date, only took five tries to figure that one out. They used to use the Cross, celebrate Christmas and many many other teachings that have changed. They call it ‘the light getting brighter and brighter’ but sometimes they even have to go back to an old teaching (that was apparently brighter then got darker then got brighter again).

Yes, JWs spend hours in preaching, and more hours learning how to preach better, but almost no time worshiping God. Maybe 10 minutes in a 2 hour meeting or even a 10 minutes in a one day assembly. Catholics pray and worship God many hours. Yes, we Catholics could learn something from JWs as far as preaching Gods truths to others, but we don’t have to spend hours and hours preaching to bring people in because once the seed is planted, Gods Holy Spirit guides people to the Catholic church. The problem we have is we are not planting the seed or cultivating the soil.

 

[PRmerger]

Interesting that ‘Regardless’ quotes the ‘Lords Prayer’ but ask a JW to pray it with you and they will refuse to. They won’t say it. It is amazing how they can twist words and make themselves look wonderful.

Interesting. I never knew that! What is their objection to the Our Father?