A Jehovah's Witness just called me

[St_Donatus]

Interesting. I never knew that! What is their objection to the Our Father?

Honestly, after being in for 20 years, I still don’t really understand it. Basically, the explanation is that they will not say prayers that are standardized. I think the real reason is that it is too much like what most Christians do. If you look at their teachings and practices, the main thrust is to do whatever is opposite of historic Christian teachings. We believe in the Trinity, they don’t, we believe Jesus is God, they don’t, we celebrate Christmas, they don’t, we use a Cross, they have a stake, we believe the faithful will go to heaven, they believe only a small percent go to heaven, the rest go to Earth. It goes on and on.

Basically, I think it is a bit contrived to separate them from everyone else. If you can separate them, you can keep them from being influenced by other people outside the religion. It appears to work fairly well too, but they still loose about two thirds of their membership over time (otherwise, 66% or more people who become JWs, leave (according the several surveys including Pew). When you consider that most of their teachings have changed over the last 100 years and all of their predictions of Armageddon have failed, it is amazing that they can even keep 33%. Most groups like this just fade away after a couple of missed predictions.

But they have a great excuses. Usually, as the time approaches, they start downplaying the prediction. After it is over, they start teaching everyone that they never taught the prediction that failed but that some JWs were just making bad assumptions on their own. Usually these predictions will be preached at Assemblies and Sunday meetings but are never explicitly made in the literature, yet hinted at quite a lot. Then they can easily say what they want. Since it is so difficult to leave, it is easier to force yourself to believe the lie that the prediction was never made. Really, I think many of the leadership don’t believe their own lies but continue things because as they say ‘where else would we go?’.

 

[adf417]

Honestly, after being in for 20 years, I still don’t really understand it. Basically, the explanation is that they will not say prayers that are standardized. I think the real reason is that it is too much like what most Christians do.

This is my “understanding” also however, I would like to get Regardless’s take on it as what is truth from thier teachings. I have seen many ex-Catholics telling untruths about our teachings and thererfor will respect their true teachings as what it is.

Regardless, again, can you set us straight on JW teaching on the “Our Father” prayer?

Peace!!!

 

[Regardless]

Speaking of corrections, I have a question for Regardless if you don’t mind…

Is it at all possible for a Jehovah’s Witness to be convinced and otherwise corrected that a Catholic, in full communion with the Catholic Church, does not worship Mary and that Jehovah’s Witness remain in the organization?

Thanks & Peace!!!

Sure. If you could convince one of that they are hardly going to be expelled from the congregation. And it is hardly an issue that would stumble someone into leaving.

Ask any question you like.

 

[PRmerger]

Ask any question you like.

So is it true that JWs don’t recite the Our Father? And if so, why not?

 

[adf417]

Sure. If you could convince one of that they are hardly going to be expelled from the congregation. And it is hardly an issue that would stumble someone into leaving.

Ask any question you like.

Clarification please…

Are you saying yes a Jehovah’s Witness could be convinced that I do not worship Mary even though I am devoted to her the way the Catholic Church teaches?

Peace!!!

 

[pacloc]

Jdubs do not recite the lords prayer for the reason already stated that they view repetitive prayers as bad. They misuse the scripture that says when you are praying, do not mutter the same things over and over again as the pharisees do. The bottom line though is to distance themselves from classic Christianity, they don’t really admit it and many might not even really realize it. They still read it as scripture as guidance for things that we should pray about.

 

[joe370]

A Jehovah’s Witness just called me. I am paraphrasing in this whole post but she said “I would like to know if I could share some stuff from the Bible with you on suffering.” I replied “Mam, what religion do you belong to?” and she said “I am a Jehovah’s Witness.” I said, “I am sorry but I am not interested. I am a devout Catholic.” and she proceeded to talk some more. She said, “What do you know about the Jehovah’s Witnesses?” and I said “I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity but I can assure you it is true.” She replied “Well, we don’t believe in the Trinity because there is no support for it in the Bible.” and I replied “Actually there is a lot of support for it in the Bible. If you want, you could give me your e-mail address and I could send you a few links where you could read about the Biblical support for the Trinity.” and she said, “No, I am not interested in that.” Then I said, “Well, I’ll be honest with you and I mean no offense here but I believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a cult and that it is not Christian.” and she said, “Well I am sure a lot of people can say similar things about your religion but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.” I then said, “Well, that’s what I believe. Goodbye.” and then I hung up the phone.

So, I am sincerely hoping that I wasn’t too rude to her. I certainly didn’t intend to be rude to her. However, I ended the phone call when I saw that the conversation was going nowhere and I just didn’t feel like continuing to talk if we weren’t going to make any progress as to whether or not her religion was true or mine is true.

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback on my conversation with her. Again, as I said, I did not intend to be rude. I hope I wasn’t. If I was, there is no way for me to apologize because I do not have her phone number because I don’t have caller ID. So, any feedback?

It can be easy to inadvertently allow people to push our buttons especially when they catch us off guard, which was the case with you. I wouldn’t worry about it; the fact that you are worried about speaks volumes in terms of you goodness, charity and generosity.

The first thing I usually ask folks like that is: who founded your church and when, (we all know the answer) reminding them that I am only interested in the church founded by Jesus the Christ, circa AD 33, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem forever guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth, as per the New Testament.

Merry Christmas Holly…

 

[joe370]

a brief and good effort. I likely wouldn’t have much more patience than you did.

You possibly could’ve gone with the tactic, “The Bible is a Catholic book, the New Testament was written, compiled, and discerned by Catholics, I think it’s amusing that you think a Catholic book doesn’t support Catholic beliefs.”

 

[joe370]

Wow, I didn’t know they were telephoning now! When they come to the door, I am gentle, but firm, as I’m sure most are. But I do not get into a long discussion with them as they love to try to trick people up with circuitous “logic.”

I usually state that I am very much at peace with the Church which Christ Himself founded in handing the Keys of the Kingdom to St. Peter, and that that is the Kingdom of Heaven for me. Sometimes I’ll add that the Divine continuity of the Church Christ founded is greater than one that mere mortals founded. If they persist on trying to argue this point, I say , “I’m sorry but I don’t wish to argue. I’m rooted firmly in the Faith.” :heaven:

Hard to argue against…

 

[Regardless]

So is it true that JWs don’t recite the Our Father? And if so, why not?

What many call the Lords Prayer or Our Father prayer (we call it the model prayer) is found at Matthew 6:9-14.

Jesus gave it in response for a request on what to pray for. So the subjects are most important: God’s name, the Kingdom, God’s will…

But notice in verse 7 Jesus warned: “Don’t say the same thing over and over like men of the nations…” (or “don’t use vain repetitions like the heathens” … or “do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do…”)

So he didn’t want us to just recite the prayer over and over like a lucky charm and not even consider what it means. Jehovah’s Witnesses try to follow that instruction.

 

[Regardless]

Clarification please…

Are you saying yes a Jehovah’s Witness could be convinced that I do not worship Mary even though I am devoted to her the way the Catholic Church teaches?

Peace!!!

My friend, I am sorry but I find your questions a little confusing.

I am not certain how the Catholic church teaches you to be devoted to her. I have heard (and stand to be corrected) that some Catholics bow to statues of Mary and pray to her.
Personally, I would consider that worship.
But maybe you could convince me (or another Jehovah’s witness) otherwise.

Yet Jesus taught us to pray to his Father and no one else, (not even him.)

 

[joe370]

Regardless;10170196]What many call the Lords Prayer or Our Father prayer (we call it the model prayer) is found at Matthew 6:9-14.

Jesus gave it in response for a request on what to pray for. So the subjects are most important: God’s name, the Kingdom, God’s will…

If I happened to belong to the Jehovah’s witness church, would it be OK for me to recite the Lord’s prayer as seen in the NT, and more than once, twice or three times? Just curious…

By the way, Merry Christmas…

 

[joe370]

My friend, I am sorry but I find your questions a little confusing.

I am not certain how the Catholic church teaches you to be devoted to her. I have heard (and stand to be corrected) that some Catholics bow to statues of Mary and pray to her.
Personally, I would consider that worship.
But maybe you could convince me (or another Jehovah’s witness) otherwise.

Yet Jesus taught us to pray to his Father and no one else, (not even him.)

Of course, you certainly don’t believe that the CC teaches Marian worship - right? I was spoon-fed that on so many occasions as a former non-catholic at least until I investigated the matter myself.

Praying to Mary means: asking Mary to pray for us… or the saints in heaven to pray for us. Something tells me that God is a tad more receptive to those souls in heaven perfectly conformed to His will; wouldn’t you agree?

By the way, would you pray for me if I asked? Or, would you tell me to take it directly to the Father?

 

[Porknpie]

Of course, you certainly don’t believe that the CC teaches Marian worship - right? I was spoon-fed that on so many occasions as a former non-catholic at least until I investigated the matter myself.

Praying to Mary means: asking Mary to pray for us… or the saints in heaven to pray for us. Something tells me that God is a tad more receptive to those souls in heaven perfectly conformed to His will; wouldn’t you agree?

By the way, would you pray for me if I asked? Or, would you tell me to take it directly to the Father?

Keeping in mind of course 1 Timothy 2 . Prayers and petitions for everyone…God desires salvation for everyone…in heaven…with him.

Prayer and Conduct.
1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,
2 for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity.
3 This is good and pleasing to God our savior,
4 who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6 who gave himself as ransom for all.

 

[PRmerger]

So he didn’t want us to just recite the prayer over and over like a lucky charm and not even consider what it means. Jehovah’s Witnesses try to follow that instruction.

Catholics do, too.

But that doesn’t answer the question as to why JWs do not pray something that comes straight from the Bible.

Why wouldn’t you come together and proclaim/read out loud/recite/pray those few verses from the Gospel of Matthew?

 

[Cathhsmom]

Wow. You are very kind. i wish we had more people like you in our area! I would fall over in shock if someone offered us hot choocolate.

Hey, I offered the JW lady who visited my house pancakes and something to drink. She turned both down. It is thanks to that lady that I got into apologetics and became a stronger Catholic. At the time, I was desperate for adult conversation. My husband was working insane hours, and I was home with three kids were 4 years old and under. I had a grand time talking to her and investingating the Catechism of the Catholic Church to share with her what the Church teaches. Too bad when we moved back to the area, I no longer get JW visitors. I know even more now and know where to look for the answers too. My husband even got me a subscription to the Catholic Answers Magazine for Christmas.

 

[adf417]

My friend, I am sorry but I find your questions a little confusing.

I am not certain how the Catholic church teaches you to be devoted to her. I have heard (and stand to be corrected) that some Catholics bow to statues of Mary and pray to her.
Personally, I would consider that worship.

Thank you for your response Regardless and please know I’m not trying to be sneaky or tricky in my questions.:hug3:

Though it’s not a requirement for Catholics, I do pray to Mary and even kiss the cross. So from this statement should I assume there is NO way for me to convince a JW that I do not worship Mary or the cross?

You said “Personally, I would consider that worship.” How is this not contradictory to your organizations teaching of “It is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship” You Can Live Forever in Paradise Earth. Does this not make you equal to God? There is no need in quoting any scriptures such as Exodus 20:4-5 without taking into consideration this people had no way of understanding a monotheistic religion much less a single God or other scriptures such as Deuteronomy 4:15-19. The bottom line will always be what is in “my” heart not what “you think” is in my heart based on my actions. So I ask in earnest “is it possible for a JW to be convinced…?”

But maybe you could convince me (or another Jehovah’s witness) otherwise.

I would love nothing more than to do this but how could this be possible if I can’t even convince you what is truly in my heart on any issue?

Peace be with you always!!!

 

[Nicea325]

A Jehovah’s Witness just called me. I am paraphrasing in this whole post but she said “I would like to know if I could share some stuff from the Bible with you on suffering.” I replied “Mam, what religion do you belong to?” and she said “I am a Jehovah’s Witness.” I said, “I am sorry but I am not interested. I am a devout Catholic.” and she proceeded to talk some more. She said, “What do you know about the Jehovah’s Witnesses?” and I said “I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity but I can assure you it is true.” She replied “Well, we don’t believe in the Trinity because there is no support for it in the Bible.” and I replied “Actually there is a lot of support for it in the Bible. If you want, you could give me your e-mail address and I could send you a few links where you could read about the Biblical support for the Trinity.” and she said, “No, I am not interested in that.” Then I said, “Well, I’ll be honest with you and I mean no offense here but I believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a cult and that it is not Christian.” and she said, “Well I am sure a lot of people can say similar things about your religion but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.” I then said, “Well, that’s what I believe. Goodbye.” and then I hung up the phone.

So, I am sincerely hoping that I wasn’t too rude to her. I certainly didn’t intend to be rude to her. However, I ended the phone call when I saw that the conversation was going nowhere and I just didn’t feel like continuing to talk if we weren’t going to make any progress as to whether or not her religion was true or mine is true.

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback on my conversation with her. Again, as I said, I did not intend to be rude. I hope I wasn’t. If I was, there is no way for me to apologize because I do not have her phone number because I don’t have caller ID. So, any feedback?

Here is I get them off my back:

Me: So JW’s deny Jesus is God?

JW: That is right, Jesus is not God, but his first perfect-created creature.

Me: So only God can save-right?

JW: Correct

Me: Hhmm? Then why does Jesus teach the opposite of what you claim? I’ll be more than glad to show you in the Bible. If Jesus is NOT God and therefore cannot save,then explain how a perfect-creature is capable of saving humanity?

JW: :ehh:

 

[PRmerger]

Here is I get them off my back:

Me: So JW’s deny Jesus is God?

JW: That is right, Jesus is not God, but his first perfect-created creature.

Me: So only God can save-right?

JW: Correct

Me: Hhmm? Then why does Jesus teach the opposite of what you claim? I’ll be more than glad to show you in the Bible. If Jesus is NOT God and therefore cannot save,then explain how a perfect-creature is capable of saving humanity?

JW: :ehh:

:clapping:

 

[Regardless]

… Too bad when we moved back to the area, I no longer get JW visitors. I know even more now and know where to look for the answers too. …

That is strange you don’t get Jehovah’s Witnesses calling where you live now. We carefully try to cover every territory and street. I suppose it is possible someone who lived at your house before insisted we never return and it is down as a “Do not call” on the local congregations list.