"A Might Fortress" hymn question: "Lord Sabaoth his name"

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Today the recessional hymn at my parish was “A Might Fortress”. Now, in the second verse in my hymnal, it goes like this:
Did we in our own strength confide, Our striving would be
losing, Were not the Savior on our side,
The man of God’s on choosing: Dost
ask who that may be? Christ Jesus, it is
he; Lord Sabaoth, his name, From age to
age the same, And he must win the battle.
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Now, why is Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”? Is there a scriptural illusion here? Sorry, but I’ve never heard Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”.
 
CatholicZ09 said:
Today the recessional hymn at my parish was “A Might Fortress”. Now, in the second verse in my hymnal, it goes like this:

Now, why is Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”? Is there a scriptural illusion here? Sorry, but I’ve never heard Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”.
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Of course, the Sanctus does use Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
 
Yes, it is a Scriptural allusion.

Luke 6:1-5:

On a Sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?” And Jesus answered them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?” And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
 
Moscati said:
Yes, it is a Scriptural allusion.

Luke 6:1-5:

On a Sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?” And Jesus answered them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?” And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
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I think you misread the OP. It’s not Sabbath, but, Sabaoth. Sabaoth means “hosts”.
 
Thank you, benedictgal. Oh, and please excuse my spelling error. I meant to say “A Mighty Fortress”.
 
BenedictGal is right, “Sabaoth” means “of hosts,” in the sense of “of armies.” The term “hosts” can be a little confusing since we also use it to describe the Blessed Sacrament. There, it means a sacrificial victim.* You can read the Catholic Encyclopedia’s brief entry on the term Sabaoth here.

*The terms come from related but distinct Latin words. Hostis is a public foe, an enemy army; hostia is a victim slain for a sacrifice.
 
In the Divine Liturgy we sing “Holy Holy, Holy, Lord of sabaoth; heaven and earth are full of thy glory;…”
Isiah 6:1-3

The Sanctus in the revised Roman Rite is “Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts…” 👍

Re: A Mighty Fortress, I always find it interesting when we sing this most famous of Martin Luther’s hymns, so embraced by the Reformation. I grew up as an Anglican singing it and loving it and was surprised when I came into the post Vatican II Latin Church to see it embraced there. 🙂
 
MarkThompson said:
BenedictGal is right, “Sabaoth” means “of hosts,” in the sense of “of armies.” The term “hosts” can be a little confusing since we also use it to describe the Blessed Sacrament. There, it means a sacrificial victim.* You can read the Catholic Encyclopedia’s brief entry on the term Sabaoth here.
*The terms come from related but distinct Latin words. Hostis is a public foe, an enemy army; hostia is a victim slain for a sacrifice.
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This is interesting Latin etymology. Is there any Hebrew etymology, similar words from the same root, etc that anyone can share for Sabaoth? (assuming it’s Hebrew not Greek)
 
Is my university education in European history getting me knotted in a bunch?

I always thought the Mighty Fortress was a battle-hymn sung before the troops of Lutheran monarchs invade Catholic settlements during the Thirty-Years War. I mean, Luther, himself, from what understand said something like the devils will flee when they hear our Christian music. Considering that he as a matter of course called Catholics devils this seems to make sense to me.
 
Jimzz12 said:
Is my university education in European history getting me knotted in a bunch?

I always thought the Mighty Fortress was a battle-hymn sung before the troops of Lutheran monarchs invade Catholic settlements during the Thirty-Years War…
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You know more than I do, however, as I indicated it was always my understanding as a child growing up in the Anglican church that this was the “battle-hymn of the Reformation”. I didn’t know that in a literal sense but in the more figurative sense, its composer, Luther leading a battle of reform with the Catholic Church. It’s often pointed out by Catholic scholars and apologists that many of the reforms Luther sought in the Church did come to pass in the Church. It is interesting how times change, but Christ does not. “…Christ Jesus, it is He. Lord Sabboth, his name, From age to age the same, And He must win the battle…” 👍
 
TI think the mighty fortress is one translation of Psalm 61: 3
3 for thou art my refuge, a strong tower against the enemy.
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I have seen it quoted as the Kelley family motto.
 
I really don’t like the idea of Catholic singing this song. :eek: The fact that the hymn was written by such a notorious heretic and enemy of the Church (and is closely associated with him and his “reformation”) should be reason enough to exclude it from being sung in Catholic churches. The fact that it is being used is scandalous.
 
MarineGuy said:
I really don’t like the idea of Catholic singing this song. :eek: The fact that the hymn was written by such a notorious heretic and enemy of the Church (and is closely associated with him and his “reformation”) should be reason enough to exclude it from being sung in Catholic churches. The fact that it is being used is scandalous.
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I agree. Too bad, since I really like the text and tune.
 
MarkThompson said:
I agree. Too bad, since I really like the text and tune.
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Ditto.
Like any number of other pieces of music it’s something I feel comfortable belting out at my computer or in the car but please, not in the Mass. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around it in Mass after knowing it as the “battle-hymn of the Reformation” for so much of my life.

There’s a wealth of spirit filled music I love singing. I was just singing some of Bernstein’s MASS again today washing dishes, parts which give me such a sense of joy with the Lord. Does that belong in the Holy Mass? Don’t think so. 🙂
 
I’m agreeing that I’ve always thought of this song being Protestant, along with a few others. But our local OF parish has no quams about singing any of these. Which is one reason I like the EF parish 120 miles away.
 
Posters here are right. This hymn was written by Luther and was sung as the first Protestants warred on Catholicism. So when it is sung, I remain silent. That said, though, I think it is harmless for Catholics to sing it at mass, not even knowing its origin.

Actually, when it is sung, it sounds very inspiring. But in the same way the Communist song the “Internationale” has inspiring-sounding music (though its origin also turns me off to its music).
 
mdgspencer said:
Actually, when it is sung, it sounds very inspiring. But in the same way the Communist song the “Internationale” has inspiring-sounding music (though its origin also turns me off to its music).
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Same with the Soviet National Anthem. Too bad, really. When they raise the anthem in The Hunt For Red October, I halfway feel like a Soviet myself. Same way when all of Rick’s Cafe sings Le Marseillaise in the face of the German colonel in Casablanca, I feel like a proud Frenchman.
 
CatholicZ09 said:
Today the recessional hymn at my parish was “A Might Fortress”. Now, in the second verse in my hymnal, it goes like this:

Now, why is Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”? Is there a scriptural illusion here? Sorry, but I’ve never heard Jesus referred to as “Lord Sabaoth”.
Click to expand...
Sabaoth is really just a transliteration of the Hebrew tzeva’ot, ‘armies’ or ‘hosts’ (the singular form is tzava ‘a multitude’, which in turn comes from the verb tzava ‘to assemble/muster’, ‘to wage war’).

In the year of the death of King Uzziah, I saw Adonai sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the hem of His robe filled the heikal (‘nave’=the temple). And seraphim stood above Him - each had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy – YHWH Tzeva’ot; full is the whole earth of His glory!"

Isaiah 6:1-3

YHWH Tzeva’ot is an Israelite title for God: “Yhwh of armies” or “Yhwh of hosts.” Hence, Lord Sabaoth means the ‘Lord of Hosts’ - the form you would often find it rendered in Bibles. This compound name occurs chiefly in prophetic literature and does not appear at all in the Torah, Joshua or Judges. The original meaning of tzeva’ot may be found in 1 Samuel 17:45, where it is interpreted as denoting “the God of the armies of Israel”.

Traditionally, the word Sabaoth is sometimes left untranslated (you can see it in the original Latin of the Sanctus: ‘Dominus Deus Sabaoth’); the way the passage is rendered in Greek might make things a little clearer:

Καὶ ἐκέκραγον ἕτερος πρὸς τὸν ἕτερον καὶ ἔλεγον· “Ἅγιος, Ἅγιος, Ἅγιος Κύριος Σαβαώθ, πλήρης πᾶσα ἡ γῆ τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ”.

And one cried to the other, and said, “Holy, holy, holy – Lord Sabaoth (Kyrios Sabaōth), full is the whole earth of His glory.”
 
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