A New Approach to Pro-Life

[benedictus2]

Drugs have been strictly regulated and made illegal for over a century, our Govt spends billions of dollars on “prevention” and 10x that much on incarceration. But yet there are still boats, planes, and people streaming the stuff into the US everyday.

Man oh man what terrible reasoning that is.

The law against theft and murder has not stopped murder or robbery or theft. Perhaps we should decriminalize them.

Actually, while we’re at it, let us abolish every single law prohibiting evil acts because these evil acts keep getting commited inspite of the laws. Can you see now how ridiculous your point is?

Besides, you keep failing to see the point of that statement. People seem to think that it is moral when it is legal, don’t you get that at all?

Making something illegal does not mean people will stop. Thats just the reality of the issue.

People will not stop but it does diminish its occurence. The facts are against you. Abortion has risen dramatically since its legalization. Face reality please.

 

[benedictus2]

And Christ had no prolem telling a sinner that their actions were wrong and that they should “go and sin no more”

Or does your bible have Jeus telling people that it was okay to commit sins and continue in that life style …like the woman caught in adultry … Mine reads “Is there no one left to accuse you? …Go and sin no more” …

Perhaps jermosh’s Bible ends with Jesus saying " Go and sin some more"

 

[Jermosh]

The answer is to oppose legalized abortion. Not the only aspect but a central aspect.

Thats not the answer Christ gave us, Christ did not want us to Change the world by force, but by Love.

 

[Schn]

Because of the looseness of the protective laws letting abortion be illegal, all of humanity is in danger. People are not looking any further than the ends of their noses when they say abortion is no threat to humans. And we have just started with the elimination of 50,000,000 babies through abortion since 1973. That is not worldwide, but only here in these United States.

Yet the population is still growing. Overpopulation is currently a far bigger problem than extinction. And nuclear weapons are a much bigger problem than abortion with respect to extinction.

Why?

It has no or very little brain development, and is unconscious. It’s only slightly more conscious than a dead person, and much less so than an animal.

 

[benedictus2]

Thats not the answer Christ gave us, Christ did not want us to Change the world by force, but by Love.

And pray tell how legalizing abortion is changing the word by love?

Perhaps the millions of babies murdered by their mothers were loved unto death?

This is speaking with fork tongue and you know it. Quit saying aye aye to the devil’s propositions.

 

[Jermosh]

But who says that this debate is about helping any one? This debate is about what is right and wrong.

So its not about the babies then? Is it really only about your conscience?

He would have been on the side of the Truth. Jesus forgave sins but He did NOT CONDONE them.

This is where you and a lot of people go so wrong. When He ate with the tax collector, He called the tax collector to a higher moral standard. When He forgave the adulteress, He told her GO AND SIN NO MORE.

The mission of the Church is not to feed the world. The mission of the Church is to proclaim the Gospel of liberation from sin and death.

Well, what does scripture say about it. He ate with sinners. But why, so that they can remain sinners? Is that the whole point?
Jesus has no hesitation of naming the sin and showing it’s evil. That is what He came here for, for the fogiveness of sins. Not to dish out schmaltz.
You are hitting the key points, but over analyzing them. How would the people know what they did was wrong, Christ did not tell them, they knew it was wrong, but His Light made them come to the Truth. How are you or others ever going to show the Light from being on the outside looking in? Are you and others honestly that arrogant that your mere word is Christs Light? No your actions are, how are they going to see your actions from a picket line?

The first stop is to expose the evil for what it is. Your position will only make abortion even more entrenched in society.

You just fail to grasp the reason for abortion. It is never about, economics. That is the devil’s lie that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

What is the first step in AA? To admit that one is an alcoholic. Same with this. For things to turn around we need to admit the sin and ask for forgivenss.

So again I say to you, stop buying into the rationale of the devil.
I say to you stop making the Devil marden your heart, this is exactly what he wants and exactly why abortion is still not even remotely close to being reduced or eradicated. Proof is in the pudding.

 

[benedictus2]

So its not about the babies then? Is it really only about your conscience?

Of course it is about the babies. But our discussion in this thread is not so much about the babies but whether we should or should not protest the legalized murder of these babies.

Nice try at diversion.

You are hitting the key points, but over analyzing them. How would the people know what they did was wrong, Christ did not tell them, they knew it was wrong, but His Light made them come to the Truth. How are you or others ever going to show the Light from being on the outside looking in?

Who said we are saying we should be on the outside looking in. By attacking the law that legalizes murder of unborn babies, we are attacking it where it counts.

It is neither about being inside nor outside. That is just diversion.

This is why I have been trying to get you to focus. The devil has got you so distractied its not fuinny.

What we need to do is change the culture back to a culture of life from a culture of death. This piece meal approach you are proposing will not work.

As I have re-iterated over and over again, before the legalization of abortion there were a lot less (millions) babies murdered by their mothers and fathers because they knew it was wrong. With that legalization of abortion they are now able to RATIONALIZE IT AWAY.

Your approach is helping in their rationalization.

Are you and others honestly that arrogant that your mere word is Christs Light? No your actions are, how are they going to see your actions from a picket line?

And where did we say that our mere words is Christ’s light? If what we are saying is truth (and in this case it happens to be true) then it is indeed Christ’s light. To say other wise (like you have been proposing from day one) is the devil’s darkness.

Jesus said the truth will set you free but he pre-condition to that is to live in His Word. Is the condoning of legalized abortion really part of his living word.

I say to you stop making the Devil marden your heart, this is exactly what he wants and exactly why abortion is still not even remotely close to being reduced or eradicated. Proof is in the pudding.

Nope. Take the blinkers off. Abortion will never be reduced so long as it is legal. So your position is actually part of the reason why it is not being reduced. When enough people stand up and get the laws overturned, then we will see a diminishment of abortion.

Education is the key. And as I keep saying and you keep failing to get, the law is a powerful teacher and when it say that killing ones baby is okay, then guess what, the students are only too willing to listen and follow.

 

[Jermosh]

Man oh man what terrible reasoning that is.

The law against theft and murder has not stopped murder or robbery or theft. Perhaps we should decriminalize them.

Actually, while we’re at it, let us abolish every single law prohibiting evil acts because these evil acts keep getting commited inspite of the laws. Can you see now how ridiculous your point is?

Besides, you keep failing to see the point of that statement. People seem to think that it is moral when it is legal, don’t you get that at all?

People will not stop but it does diminish its occurence. The facts are against you. Abortion has risen dramatically since its legalization. Face reality please.

So does the truth count or do “they” count? Which one is it really?

 

[benedictus2]

So does the truth count or do “they” count? Which one is it really?

False dichotomy my friend.

"They’ (babies) count, because the truth counts: the truth that they are babies, and they are being called anything but, so that their mothers will feel good about killing them.

When we get people following the truth, then we will have overturned the culture of death. It is precisely because people follow the lies of the devil, that we have the enormous numbers of murdered babies.

 

[Jermosh]

Of course it is about the babies. But our discussion in this thread is not so much about the babies but whether we should or should not protest the legalized murder of these babies.

Nice try at diversion.

There is no diversion, you said “But who says that this debate is about helping any one? This debate is about what is right and wrong.”

Who said we are saying we should be on the outside looking in. By attacking the law that legalizes murder of unborn babies, we are attacking it where it counts.

It is neither about being inside nor outside. That is just diversion.
Yes the diversion is the devil telling you that you need to have this staunch and hardened heart that you are forced outside the clinic, much like the pharisees were forced outside the tax collectors and prostitutes. I am really at a loss why you cannot see this crystal clear truth.

What we need to do is change the culture back to a culture of life from a culture of death. This piece meal approach you are proposing will not work.

Back to? When has there ever been a culture of life? Or do you believe in the facade of the good ole yesterday living in a life of bliss, you know what they say about bliss dont you.

As I have re-iterated over and over again, before the legalization of abortion there were a lot less (millions) babies murdered by their mothers and fathers because they knew it was wrong. With that legalization of abortion they are now able to RATIONALIZE IT AWAY.

Utterly false, they have had abortion techniques and condoms as far back as mankind could write down history. Heck I just did a study on the Temperance movement in the US and they spoke of this as well, this was over a 100yrs ago.

And where did we say that our mere words is Christ’s light? If what we are saying is truth (and in this case it happens to be true) then it is indeed Christ’s light. To say other wise (like you have been proposing from day one) is the devil’s darkness.

Jesus said the truth will set you free but he pre-condition to that is to live in His Word. Is the condoning of legalized abortion really part of his living word.
Well you just did, and how can anyone hear it from a football field away due to the actions of certain “Pro-Life” protesters?

Nope. Take the blinkers off. Abortion will never be reduced so long as it is legal. So your position is actually part of the reason why it is not being reduced. When enough people stand up and get the laws overturned, then we will see a diminishment of abortion.

Education is the key. And as I keep saying and you keep failing to get, the law is a powerful teacher and when it say that killing ones baby is okay, then guess what, the students are only too willing to listen and follow.
So I am the reason why its still happening? Little me against how many staunch chest pounders? Yeah ok.

 

[Jermosh]

False dichotomy my friend.

"They’ (babies) count, because the truth counts: the truth that they are babies, and they are being called anything but, so that their mothers will feel good about killing them.

When we get people following the truth, then we will have overturned the culture of death. It is precisely because people follow the lies of the devil, that we have the enormous numbers of murdered babies.

There is no overturning the Culture of Death, where did this concept ever come from? Only the 2nd coming of Christ will do such a thing.

 

[Schn]

False dichotomy my friend.

"They’ (babies) count, because the truth counts: the truth that they are babies, and they are being called anything but, so that their mothers will feel good about killing them.

I wonder how the mothers actually feel about aborting a fetus.

 

[Jermosh]

I wonder how the mothers actually feel about aborting a fetus.

Most go through a natural and induced depression, some have more depression later. There was a possible link between abortion/miscarriage and postpartum depression, but I have not seen it in almost a decade.

 

[YADA]

The OP started this thread with a false premise … that those who oppose abortion only want aboriton made illegal and offer no support for women whofind themselves facing an un-wanted, un-planned pregnancy … the old accusation that Pro-Lifers only care for babies before they are born and not after …

Then the OP offered all of the ways the Pro-Life movement should function - all of the quoyte NEW APPROACHES unquote that they would take that would be SO MUCH BETTER AND OFFER REAL HELP …

By alas - when the OP was presented with all of the programs and assistance [Homes for expentant mothers and homes for mothers and small children - thats before and after birth - adoption services, free medical assistance including delivery, rent assistance, utility and other needs, food, furniture and supplies expecially for young children, - ie cribs, car seats, high chairs, etc] that:
1] are offered,
2]have been offered and
3] will be offered

AND the truth regarding Roe V Wade [and its companion Doe V Bolten] and why the ‘legality’ of abortion is:
1] EVIL,
2] Immoral and
3] maintains the status quo in addition to being unChristian

We are subjectd to Jesus only changed with love, Jesus would have wanted the laws changed and there ar too many people anyway …

The fact is that those who come late to fighting abortion believe that they have more compassion, more intellect and understand the issues …
Like the OP, - they have no idea or real knowledge about the Pro-Life movement and all of the things we do - other then what Planned Parenthood and the pro-abortion media have presesnted [how might I discern this? Their arguments - as presented here and other places- echoes the NARAL - Planned Parenthood talking points that demonizes the Pro-Life movement].

Want to end abortion? Vote for those who would make it illegal AND donate to those organizations like the Mother Child Education Center, the Father Taaffe Foundation, JOIN, etc … Donate your time at a crisis pregnancy center donate to get ultr-sound machines in those Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Sponsor the “Traveling Crib”, open your home to an expectant mother in need …

Support Adoption, welcome families at church, stop seeing children as leeches on society

Remember what Mother Teresa said … Want peace in the world? - end abortion!

THE OP IS WRONG - EVERYTHING THEY OFFERED AS NEW IS ALREADY BEING DONE AND MORE -THROUGHOUT THE NATION - EVERYTHING …

THE OP HAS NO NEW APPROACH and NOTHING NEW TO OFFER UNLESS THEY JOIN IN THE FIGHT WIH THEIR TIME - TALENT - MONEY and VOTE [political action]

 

[Schn]

Most go through a natural and induced depression, some have more depression later. There was a possible link between abortion/miscarriage and postpartum depression, but I have not seen it in almost a decade.

Gosh, benedictus seems to think they’re actually happy and carefree after abortion instead of having to agonize over the decision for a long period of time.

 

[YADA]

I wonder how the mothers actually feel about aborting a fetus.

well you could find out here …

silentnomoreawareness.org/

Also, men need healing as well - many have lost their fatherhood - to the horrors of abortion …

and here …

hopeafterabortion.com/rachel/

We can not ask the aborted children - they cannot speak to us any more … though there are a few survivers of abortion you could speak with -

However, you might ask any 5 year old if a mommie should be able to rip the unborn child from her body and throw it away because she decided she does not want it … Overwhelmingly they would be aghast and know this to be not only ‘wrong’ but ‘horribly wrong’ … and they would be correct …

Abortion hurts women, it hurts men, it hurts children and it hurts - severly harms - our society … Abortion is evil and there is no sugar coating that will change that sad fact …

 

[Schn]

well you could find out here …

silentnomoreawareness.org/

Also, men need healing as well - many have lost their fatherhood - to the horrors of abortion …

and here …

hopeafterabortion.com/rachel/

We can not ask the aborted children - they cannot speak to us any more … though there are a few survivers of abortion you could speak with -

My post was in reply to benedictus2, who stated that correct medical and scientific terminology is used to allow mothers to “feel good about killing them (‘babies’)”. (“They’ (babies) count, because the truth counts: the truth that they are babies, and they are being called anything but, so that their mothers will feel good about killing them.”)

However, you might ask any 5 year old if a mommie should be able to rip the unborn child from her body and throw it away because she decided she does not want it … Overwhelmingly they would be aghast and know this to be not only ‘wrong’ but ‘horribly wrong’ … and they would be correct …

It is lucky, then that the whims of 5 year olds do not run the world. If you asked them what to eat for every meal you may be forced to eat nothing but ice cream for the rest of your life.

Abortion hurts women, it hurts men, it hurts children and it hurts - severly harms - our society … Abortion is evil and there is no sugar coating that will change that sad fact …

It hurts the men and women that can now go to college instead of being stuck at McDonalds bringing up an unwanted child. It hurts the children that never have to go through the twisted adoption system. It hurts the society that is having to deal with overpopulation. Yes.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

My post was in reply to benedictus2, who stated that correct medical and scientific terminology is used to allow mothers to “feel good about killing them (‘babies’)”. (“They’ (babies) count, because the truth counts: the truth that they are babies, and they are being called anything but, so that their mothers will feel good about killing them.”)

It is lucky, then that the whims of 5 year olds do not run the world. If you asked them what to eat for every meal you may be forced to eat nothing but ice cream for the rest of your life.

It hurts the men and women that can now go to college instead of being stuck at McDonalds bringing up an unwanted child. It hurts the children that never have to go through the twisted adoption system. It hurts the society that is having to deal with overpopulation. Yes.

the murder of a child is utterly immoral. period.

 

[Schn]

the murder of a child is utterly immoral. period.

Oh yes, definitely. I would never murder a child. But fetuses aren’t even sentient.

 

[nsper7]

I am a devout Catholic, but I do not support a ban on abortion. I will tell you my reasons and offer what I believe is a better suggestion. Banning abortion will not stop abortion. The wealthy will go to other countries to have it done; those who cannot afford this, will return to underground abortion clinics or self-abort; it’s been going on for centuries and will continue.

1. The way you help stop wealthy individuals from getting abortions in other countries is the same we tackled wealthy perverts going to other countries to commit acts of pedophilia: you basically state that, regardless of the other country’s laws, the person will be charged with the crime in our country when they return AS IF they had committed the crime on our soil.
2. If women have to go ‘underground’ and/or self-abort, it make the process significantly more dangerous, thus creating another incentive for women not to abort: it may kill or seriously injure you.
3. Start convicting abortionists and women who get abortions both for first degree murder and getting sentenced to life without parole will also serve as another incentive not to get abortions.