A New Church - Dissenter umbrella group

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Gerry_Hunter

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According to this article, there’s going to be a new “Catholic” church - well, not exactly.

It seems all the usual suspects who have actually left the Church are going to try to band together - VOTF, Dignity, Catholics for Choice, women’s “ordination”,etc.

My take? It’s about time they formed another organization, and stopped pretending they were still professing members of the Catholic Church.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
According to this article, there’s going to be a new “Catholic” church - well, not exactly.

It seems all the usual suspects who have actually left the Church are going to try to band together - VOTF, Dignity, Catholics for Choice, women’s “ordination”,etc.

My take? It’s about time they formed another organization, and stopped pretending they were still professing members of the Catholic Church.

Blessings,

Gerry
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Can you please show us where, explicitly and clearly, any groups you referred to actually left the Catholic Church?

Thanks.
 
I just clicked the link and saw the picture they used for it.

Hey,'' I thought, I know her!’’

I’m not a fan of Sister Joan Chittister by any stretch of the imagination, but you’d think someone might have taken a more recent photograph.

As to the content…
the newly formed American Catholic Council called today for an historic assembly of the Catholic Church in the United States
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They seem to be implying that this will be a sort of ecumenical council. Held in America, exclusively for Americans. As if ecumenical councils can exclude part of the Church.
There’s not even the most remote likelihood that the Church would adjust in this direction itself. I think this is a way of putting pressure on them to make changes and bringing the issue into a more prominent setting.
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On this, I am sure that they are right. The Church really doesn’t like to excommunicate people, but I’m sure that this will finally get someone to start ``adjusting the direction’’ of the approach taken to Catholic groups that persist in open apostasy. (Is it going too far to call them apostates? Should I leave that decision to God and the Church?)

I wonder if these groups are ginning for a fight and think that such a confrontation would be good for them.

Edit:
diggerdomer said:
Can you please show us where, explicitly and clearly, any groups you referred to actually left the Catholic Church?

Thanks.
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Oh, sure.

Code of Canon Law:
Can. 1378 §1. A priest who acts against the prescript of ⇒ can. 977 incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See.
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§2. The following incur a latae sententiae penalty of interdict or, if a cleric, a latae sententiae penalty of suspension:
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1/ a person who attempts the liturgical action of the Eucharistic sacrifice though not promoted to the sacerdotal order;
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catholicinsight.com/online/feminism/article_246.shtml
This fact was borne out graphically when the Dublin conference ended not with the celebration of Holy Mass but with a mock eucharistic service: “There was no official celebrant. Instead, all participants joined in blessing the bread and wine.”
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andrewagill said:
I just clicked the link and saw the picture they used for it.

Hey,'' I thought, I know her!’’

I’m not a fan of Sister Joan Chittister by any stretch of the imagination, but you’d think someone might have taken a more recent photograph.

As to the content…

They seem to be implying that this will be a sort of ecumenical council. Held in America, exclusively for Americans. As if ecumenical councils can exclude part of the Church.

On this, I am sure that they are right. The Church really doesn’t like to excommunicate people, but I’m sure that this will finally get someone to start ``adjusting the direction’’ of the approach taken to Catholic groups that persist in open apostasy. (Is it going too far to call them apostates? Should I leave that decision to God and the Church?)

I wonder if these groups are ginning for a fight and think that such a confrontation would be good for them.

Edit:

Oh, sure.

Code of Canon Law:

catholicinsight.com/online/feminism/article_246.shtml
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I don’t understand how your reply answered my question.
 
diggerdomer said:
I don’t understand how your reply answered my question.
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At least one of the groups, Call to Action, has sponsored an event where someone posed as a priest and pretended to perform the Eucharistic consecration (in this case, Sr. Joan Chittister). Anyone who attempts to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice and who is not a priest excommunicates herself.

I think I sent you the wrong link. Try this one

(Nevermind. I am wrong. That is an interdict, not an excommunication. Catholics for Choice, on the other hand, have excommunicated themselves.)
 
andrewagill said:
At least one of the groups, Call to Action, has sponsored an event where someone posed as a priest and pretended to perform the Eucharistic consecration (in this case, Sr. Joan Chittister). Anyone who attempts to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice and who is not a priest excommunicates herself.

I think I sent you the wrong link. Try this one
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Thanks! Appreciate the response.

I am aware of CTA and have some concerns.

However, I am not at all aware that Sr. Joan Chittister did what you claimed and so would be subject to excommunication as you cite by Canon Law. I didn’t see anything in the link you shared that said she was subject to such penalty. Can you help me here?

Thank you again for your response and correcting the link.
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
It seems all the usual suspects who have actually left the Church are going to try to band together - VOTF, Dignity, Catholics for Choice, women’s “ordination”,etc.
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Now why does this remind me of those campy tv episodes of Batman where the Joker, the Riddler, the Penguin, and Catwoman all team up to try and defeat the Caped Crusader? :whacky:

I think it was the term “umbrella” group that did it …
and I think it’s time for me to go to bed. 😛

~~ the phoenix
 
diggerdomer said:
Thanks! Appreciate the response.

I am aware of CTA and have some concerns.

However, I am not at all aware that Sr. Joan Chittister did what you claimed and so would be subject to excommunication as you cite by Canon Law. I didn’t see anything in the link you shared that said she was subject to such penalty. Can you help me here?

Thank you again for your response and correcting the link.
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I was wrong. It’s an interdict, not an excommunication.

But she did pretend to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice. From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:
The organization is also allowing several women who claim to have been ordained bishops, priests and deacons by unnamed male bishops in the United States and Europe to celebrate what they are calling a Eucharistic liturgy, separate from the conference’s Mass.
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the_phoenix said:
Now why does this remind me of those campy tv episodes of Batman where the Joker, the Riddler, the Penguin, and Catwoman all team up to try and defeat the Caped Crusader? :whacky:

I think it was the term “umbrella” group that did it …
and I think it’s time for me to go to bed. 😛

~~ the phoenix
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I am not equally familiar with all these groups, but I am sure that not all have left the Church as some here seem to be claiming. Anyone have a little more fact to back up any claim of a group objectively leaving the catholic Church?
 
diggerdomer said:
I am not equally familiar with all these groups, but I am sure that not all have left the Church as some here seem to be claiming. Anyone have a little more fact to back up any claim of a group objectively leaving the catholic Church?
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Catholics for Choice is a pro-choice group.

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13296
Father Euteneuer attacked the credibility of CFC, explaining, “An organization founded by a lady who ran illegal abortion clinics in the Third World before she graduated to higher levels of malfeasance is hardly an authority we should take seriously.” He reported that the organization has been condemned twice in open session by the U.S. Catholic Bishops as a deceptive and false “Catholic” organization.
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andrewagill said:
I was wrong. It’s an interdict, not an excommunication.

But she did pretend to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice. From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:
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Sr. Joan is a dissident, maybe even a heretic, but I don’t know that she has incurred excommunication. OTOH, Catholics for Choice and Womynpriests (I think that’s how they spell it) have. So have VOTF and CTA in some diocesess.

There are at least two other threads on the American “Catholic” council. They seem to want to have the Church in Amercia formed according to a different set of rules - both disciplines and liturgical practices - than the universl Church. The groups seems to be mostly VOTF driven. Their “press” has died down as the clergy sexual misconduct issue is resolved and they need another reason for being.

The ACC held their convention last month in Texas. I didn’t hear a word about it, except here on CAF. I don’t think they are getting the response they desired and are not likely to get much welcome in parishes or dioceses in the US.
 
Dale_M said:
The article doesn’t indicate that she did anything such as you claim. In fact, it quotes her as saying: “I am not called to ordination.”
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Which makes the fact that she tried to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice all the worse.
 
These people live in DARKNESS. They are in dire need of conversion. ( Now that’s a job!) Our responsibility is NOT to support them; but, with Christian love, to pray for them and to try to bring them back into the fold of Christ.

It is so obvious they cannot find the way themselves. They need intervention lest they fall into the pit.
 
diggerdomer said:
I am not equally familiar with all these groups, but I am sure that not all have left the Church as some here seem to be claiming. Anyone have a little more fact to back up any claim of a group objectively leaving the catholic Church?
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The nasty thing about many of these groups is that they claim that they have not “objectively” left the Catholic Church. Take the womenpriests crowd. They claim that they are still Catholics. Not only that, they claim they are Catholic deacons, priests, and bishops.

This group left the Church when they pretended to administer or receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Others did so when they declared the Magisterium in error on its moral teachings on things like abortion. But to satisfy the whims of pedantry, some have indeed left the Catholic Church, even though they have not done so by standing up and declaring, “I hereby leave the Catholic Church.” The rest have freely associated themselves with these people and their actions, and have clearly ceased to profess the Catholic faith, even if they might still have a tenuous, titular claim to membership.

This gathering, if it comes off, will seal the deal. If coming together to organize and oppose the teaching of the Magisterium and the authority of the Church doesn’t constitute an act of (minimally) schism, then nothing does.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
andrewagill said:
Which makes the fact that she tried to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice all the worse.
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Andrew, there is no no reason to believe that she made such an attempt. It wasn’t in the article you offered as evidence. What the article did mention is that there are groups which favor female ordination and that there is a group which claims to have ordained female Catholic priests, and that some of those women were invited to offer “a Eucharistic liturgy”. But the article also said that Sr. Chittister had no opinion on such things, feeling instead that discussion was a needed thing.

Again, there has been no evidence offered in this thread to support the claim that Chittister attempted to offer the Eucharist. If you have some evidence, please provide it. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Sr. Joan, but that isn’t one of them.
 
Dale_M said:
Andrew, there is no no reason to believe that she made such an attempt. It wasn’t in the article you offered as evidence. What the article did mention is that there are groups which favor female ordination and that there is a group which claims to have ordained female Catholic priests, and that some of those women were invited to offer “a Eucharistic liturgy”. But the article also said that Sr. Chittister had no opinion on such things, feeling instead that discussion was a needed thing.

Again, there has been no evidence offered in this thread to support the claim that Chittister attempted to offer the Eucharist. If you have some evidence, please provide it. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Sr. Joan, but that isn’t one of them.
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She celebrated a Eucharistic liturgy.

What happens in the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

I also gave you this source:

I think I sent this one before.
She has addressed Call to Action conferences, and once played chief “celebrant” at its “eucharist”.
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It turns out that they may have to move up the meeting. It appears Voice of the Faithful, according to this link, may not be around by the time the planned date comes to pass.

VOTF “has used the current crisis in the Church as a springboard for presenting an agenda that is anti-Church and, ultimately, anti-Catholic,” Archbishop John Myers of Newark wrote in 2002. “Altering Church teaching on sexual morality and defiance of the apostolic authority that has guided the Church since its founding 2,000 years ago by Our Lord Jesus Christ have all found a place in the ranks of Voice of the Faithful.”

God is good, so perhaps these people will realize that the Holy Mother they despise truly is more than eager to love them, if they will but let her? Better than forming another denomination.,

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Ah, so when groups like Call to Apostasy, Voice of the unFaithful, Catholics for No Choice all go under one umbrella group…

Will that umbrella protect them from the falling fire and brimstone?

Welcome to the Church of the 1960’s…instead of incense smoke, it is the smoke of a joint.

Instead of “lift up your hearts” it is “lift up your joints”

http://disney-clipart.com/Cars/Disney-Cars-Fillmore.jpg

Like wow…man.
 
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