A New Face to Traditionalism?

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That site is just shallow. Its basically just an internet store selling stuff and calling it “tradition” and “lifestyle”. It’s for people looking for a “religious experience”,not necessarily truth. It’s niche marketing. Their manifesto is muddle-headed.
Then we could stand a lot more “muddle headedness.” From their manifesto:

“Where the punkrock ideal is formed, fueled, and sustained by a common hatred for the world, the monkrock ideal is formed, fueled, and sustained by a common love for it. However, this " love " for the world is not utopian, democratic, or progressive, but other-worldly, hierarchal, and redemptive, understanding that man is free only to do good, reason and not the senses are to inform the will, man is only as dignified as he conforms himself to truth, inequality is a necessary good, less IS more, modesty is beautiful, suffering is salvific, this world is not our home, and all are called to live the life of monks.”

Otherworldly, hierarchal, and redemptive? Free only to do good? Conformance to truth? Suffering is salvific? If that’s muddle-headed, then Holy Mother Church is, as well.
 
Then we could stand a lot more “muddle headedness.” From their manifesto:

“Where the punkrock ideal is formed, fueled, and sustained by a common hatred for the world, the monkrock ideal is formed, fueled, and sustained by a common love for it. However, this " love " for the world is not utopian, democratic, or progressive, but other-worldly, hierarchal, and redemptive, understanding that man is free only to do good, reason and not the senses are to inform the will, man is only as dignified as he conforms himself to truth, inequality is a necessary good, less IS more, modesty is beautiful, suffering is salvific, this world is not our home, and all are called to live the life of monks.”

Otherworldly, hierarchal, and redemptive? Free only to do good? Conformance to truth? Suffering is salvific? If that’s muddle-headed, then Holy Mother Church is, as well.
What is an other-worldly love for the world supposed to mean?
And how is their love for the world heirarchal and redemptive?
And realistically,man is not free only to do good. And both reason and senses may inform the will. The senses are not inherently bad. And how do they conform themselves to truth? They don’t even talk about truth. They just sell merchandise and provide links to Catholic websites. And all are not called to live the life of monks.
 
What is an other-worldly love for the world supposed to mean?
And how is their love for the world heirarchal and redemptive?
And realistically,man is not free only to do good. And both reason and senses may inform the will. The senses are not inherently bad. And how do they conform themselves to truth? They don’t even talk about truth. They just sell merchandise and provide links to Catholic websites. And all are not called to live the life of monks.
All the things that they mention are teachings of the Catholic Church. Man is ontollogically free, (of his very nature, created in the Divine Image) only truly free, to do good, though he certainly may disobey and do evil (think of it as “permission.” Man only has permission from his Creator to do good). They have not said that the senses are inherently bad, merely that they alone do not inform the will. This is part of what seperates us from the animals, whose will is only formed by sense and instinct, albeit God-given. “Other-wordly” undoubtedly is along the lines of Christ’s admonition to be in the world, but not OF the world. Their love is hierarchical and redemptive because they are orthodox Catholics and that’s the orthodox Catholic world-view, that the supernatural order, the divine constitution of the Church, etc., is hierarchical in form and redemptive in purpose. As for how they conform to truth, well, if they proclaim the Gospel, the teaching of the Catholic Church, then how do they not?

Lots of Catholic sites concerned with truth sell things, like EWTN, for example. Parishes often have gift stores or bookshops that sell things. You won’t hear "traditionalists’ in these fora criticize TAN books for not giving their merchandise away for free.

No, we’re not all called to a monastic life, but we are all called to be chaste (even the married) and obedient (to the hierarchical Church and her legitimate pastors). And iinasmuch as we are admonished not to lay up treasure on earth, but to rather turn our thoughts to heaven, the monastic idea of poverty is still helpful. Few monastics are poor in the very strictest sense of the word, anyway. We do not normally allow our religious, monastic or otherwise, to starve or to do without clothes or shelter. Truly poor people, however, do quite frequently starve and go without clothes and shelter.
 
Seems like a nice website - it’s well designed and sells good, solidly traditional, stuff at very low prices and the “study as you go” page has links to the Catechism, Baltimore Catechism, the NAB and Douay Bibles, Vatican II documents, etc.
 
Seems like a nice website - it’s well designed and sells good, solidly traditional, stuff at very low prices and the “study as you go” page has links to the Catechism, Baltimore Catechism, the NAB and Douay Bibles, Vatican II documents, etc.
Yeah looks pretty good. I think its great.
 
All the things that they mention are teachings of the Catholic Church. Man is ontollogically free, (of his very nature, created in the Divine Image) only truly free, to do good, though he certainly may disobey and do evil (think of it as “permission.” Man only has permission from his Creator to do good). They have not said that the senses are inherently bad, merely that they alone do not inform the will.

The manifesto says “reason and not the senses are to inform the will”.

This is part of what seperates us from the animals, whose will is only formed by sense and instinct, albeit God-given. “Other-wordly” undoubtedly is along the lines of Christ’s admonition to be in the world, but not OF the world.

Can an internet site that sells stuff make an honest claim about having an otherworldly love for the world or not being of the world?

Their love is hierarchical and redemptive because they are orthodox Catholics and that’s the orthodox Catholic world-view, that the supernatural order, the divine constitution of the Church, etc., is hierarchical in form and redemptive in purpose.

Yes,the Church is heirarchical,and love of God is redemptive,but what does that have to do with a mercantile website?

As for how they conform to truth, well, if they proclaim the Gospel, the teaching of the Catholic Church, then how do they not?

It would help if they did not conflate in their minds conforming to the truth with their mercantile activities,their “monastical” lifestyle and their “tradition”.

Lots of Catholic sites concerned with truth sell things, like EWTN, for example. Parishes often have gift stores or bookshops that sell things. You won’t hear "traditionalists’ in these fora criticize TAN books for not giving their merchandise away for free.

Monkrock isn’t even really concerned with truth. All they do is provide readings from the Bible (which anyone can read in an actual Bible),and links to other Catholic websites. They call themselves an itinerant apostolate,but they just sell stuff. If they were really concerned with truth and were an apostolate,they would delve into and expound upon scripture,and they might have forums as well. They would preach.

No, we’re not all called to a monastic life, but we are all called to be chaste (even the married) and obedient (to the hierarchical Church and her legitimate pastors). And iinasmuch as we are admonished not to lay up treasure on earth, but to rather turn our thoughts to heaven, the monastic idea of poverty is still helpful.

Monkrock is not about monastic poverty. They are selling “treasures” and call it “tradition”. They’re basically an online niche-shop selling a lifestyle,an image. They’re too much about collecting Catholica,accessories,trinkets,as if that is what tradition is really about. And they cultivate this marketable image of a spiritual lifestyle for themselves,which shows the underlying narcissicism of it all.
 
I would have to say that MonkRock is a gateway for youngins’, like myself, into traditionalism.
 
I would have to say that MonkRock is a gateway for youngins’, like myself, into traditionalism.
Hey don’t let us cranky old folks slow your roll. Have fun with it. I think its great that young people have taken an interest in their faith and are expressing it in their terms.
 
All the things that they mention are teachings of the Catholic Church. Man is ontollogically free, (of his very nature, created in the Divine Image) only truly free, to do good, though he certainly may disobey and do evil (think of it as “permission.” Man only has permission from his Creator to do good).
Just as a side-note, I heard Fr. Corapi preaching on this topic. In short, he said pretty much the same as above. He also made the distinction between freedom (to choose the good) and license (the so-called “freedom” to choose whatever we want, including evil). His conclusion has stuck with me through the years: “the devil is a clever wordsmith”.
 
May the reign and peace of Christ the Eternal and Sovereign High Priest and King be with you all.

I know I’m over 6 months late on this one, but I thought I would make my presence (as of today) known (if this thread is still even going on…)

I am the creator, founder, and owner of MonkRock. I would be happy to answer any questions or engage in any conversations regarding our apostolate and the ideology that infuses it.

May Our Lady of Lourdes - the Immaculate Conception - pray for us.
“My Mother, my confidence.”
T
 
Personally, I like the site. I’m getting vibes of people reading waaaay too much into some things on it. Coffee named after saints? I don’t see anything wrong with that. Now when we start marketing cookies with the brand name “Body of Christ: Just let the heavenly taste melt in your mouth,” then we have a problem.

sheesh.
 
May the reign and peace of Christ the Eternal and Sovereign High Priest and King be with you all.

I know I’m over 6 months late on this one, but I thought I would make my presence (as of today) known (if this thread is still even going on…)

I am the creator, founder, and owner of MonkRock. I would be happy to answer any questions or engage in any conversations regarding our apostolate and the ideology that infuses it.

May Our Lady of Lourdes - the Immaculate Conception - pray for us.
“My Mother, my confidence.”
T
yay!!! You made it!!!
 
Yes. Some are reading way too much into such things. However, I understand. There are too many inappropriate things out there in the name of the Church. I used to have more commentary of the site but thought it brought unnecessary attention to potential problems, which seemed like a red flag itself. But I think it might be good to say more again. That’s why I joined the forum.

The idea to name the coffees after saints was directly inspired by the centuries of monastic orders doing such things with wine, beer, cheese, fruitcakes, and other such means to pray for their life of prayer. Our apostolate is intentionally in line with such a Tradition.

It has proven to be a great way to propagate the Catholic Faith and the notion of a Catholic culture to non-Catholics AND Catholics. It has also served to be a good way to cross-market the other (more important) products associated with that Saint - such as books, videos, sacramentals, and even the apparel.

This does not diminish the Faith, Our Lord, or the cult of Saints especially since we purposely take great care to only create true Catholic art and iconography, and nothing of the secular parody or gimmicky witness-gear stuff that borders on sacrilege. Also, we are a true apostolate and not simply a Catholic retailer as most of the vendors that are out there.

In fact, the entire idea and form of MonkRock was modeled after the Religious (Monastic) Order. We are now forming a Lay Monastic Order called Transitus Oblates of the Last Martyrdom to meet the growing demand for an organized association and Rule of life.
 
Yes. Some are reading way too much into such things. However, I understand. There are too many inappropriate things out there in the name of the Church. I used to have more commentary of the site but thought it brought unnecessary attention to potential problems, which seemed like a red flag itself. But I think it might be good to say more again. That’s why I joined the forum.

The idea to name the coffees after saints was directly inspired by the centuries of monastic orders doing such things with wine, beer, cheese, fruitcakes, and other such means to pray for their life of prayer. Our apostolate is intentionally in line with such a Tradition.

It has proven to be a great way to propagate the Catholic Faith and the notion of a Catholic culture to non-Catholics AND Catholics. It has also served to be a good way to cross-market the other (more important) products associated with that Saint - such as books, videos, sacramentals, and even the apparel.

This does not diminish the Faith, Our Lord, or the cult of Saints especially since we purposely take great care to only create true Catholic art and iconography, and nothing of the secular parody or gimmicky witness-gear stuff that borders on sacrilege. Also, we are a true apostolate and not simply a Catholic retailer as most of the vendors that are out there.

In fact, the entire idea and form of MonkRock was modeled after the Religious (Monastic) Order. We are now forming a Lay Monastic Order called Transitus Oblates of the Last Martyrdom to meet the growing demand for an organized association and Rule of life.
I don’t want to pass any judgements on what you are doing, but I think my only concern about your website is that this is coming across as a new trend for young people. Trends do not stand the test of time. There must be the strong foundation, or kids will quickly move on from the “punk trad” look to something else. I have to take issue with making traditional Catholicism seem trendy or fashionable. Furthermore, I find the coffee names to be on the flippant side, which bothers me.

Be aware that I am giving what I hope is constructive criticism.
 
Thank you for the constructive criticism. I will try to defend.
  1. Though the web site is not necessarily the best reflection of our apostolate due to many things like the lack of money, skill, and resources, we’re not trying to be trendy. Nearly everything we sell is counter-cultural (even within the mainstream of the Church), and most of our designs are based off of icons and sacred art.
One consideration…If you took our apparel and coffee away, we are selling nothing but Traditional Catholic books (mostly written by Saints!) on monasticism, the Traditional Latin Mass, the Social Kingship of Christ, and the Religious Life; Sacred Music - exclusively Gregorian Chant (we don’t even sell contemporary music!); Rosaries, Medals, Crucifixes, Scapulars (which most Catholics don’t wear anymore), Chapel Veils (which even fewer Catholics wear), and videos. What’s “trendy” about Sacramentals, Chant, Monasticism, and the Traditional Latin Mass?

I think part of the problem is that most of the mainstream Catholic culture one sees in Catholic bookstores, parishes, and other Catholic merchandise is very modern, abstract, gimmicky, heretical, or just bad - like Soccer Jesus statues, stations of the Cross in the form of quilts, pop psychology books, and t-shirts that compare the Seven Sacraments to the 7-Eleven gas station. Or, in Traditionalist circles, there is the over-reaction against the Modernists, and therefore they are fearful of all things “new”, technological, decorative, or even classic. I think you may be associating something that actually looks aesthetically appealing with some “trendy” because what we do is actually done well. I don’t know.
  1. We’re not youth driven really at all.
The majority of our customer base is over 30 years old (mostly married with many children) and many as old as in their 60’s (with grandchildren) and more academically driven. We have done ok with Catholic youth (I guess), but in all honesty, they don’t understand much of what we do or sell because they don’t know much about the Faith (usually asking, “What’s this?”). I was in the midst of 25,000 of them last fall… apart from the little buttons, it was over their head.

Catholic youth - and this is confirmed by friends I have who do Catholic youth and young adult ministry full-time - are lost. It’s very sad. I don’t blame them. It’s what they have been taught and not taught. My point, we’re not trying to appeal to youth “where their at”. We’re trying to bring them to timeless unchanging Tradition of the One, Holy, Roman Church. So any “youthiness” we have is merely coincidental.

For the record, our apostolate is taken very seriously by the priests, bishops, Religious, and professors I speak with face-to-face around the country (over 100,000 people just last year) as well as online internationally.

Now, something like LifeTeen is trendy and youth-driven. And I don’t see us having a single thing in common with them.
  1. I do not see how the coffee names are “flippant” and different that what has been done by Religious Orders for centuries with beers and fruitcakes. I don’ know why you can’t see the connection…
The names, like “Little Flower” and “Brother Broom” ARE the actual nicknames of the Saints. We didn’t make anything up. We also took the time to associate their coffees with their patronage or story.

There is a Traditional Carmelite Order in Wyoming who started roasting and selling their own coffee called “Mystic Monk”. Is that flippant? Do you have a problem with what they are doing?

Thank you for caring enough to post your criticism. I hope you don’t mind me taking the time to clarify our position.

St. Bernadette, pray for us.
 
Hi Monkrock,

I like what I see on both your sites, and wish you well.
Any chance of adding 3X sizes on the hoodies and shirts ?
 
Thank you.

Actually I have some 3X in the Fashion Fit (Benedict Medal - Black version and Brown version as well as Black Holy Spirit Dove) which are about the same as the 2X Basic Tee, maybe slightly bigger. I am not sure what you would think. If you want one of those, let me know. I have never done 3X hoodies but I can.

If you want a 3X Basic Tee or Hoodie, e-mail me at monk@monkrock.com what you are interested in, with your basic contact info, and I will put it on my back order list. I will let you know when I do a new run of something, and can throw in some 3X sizes for you. Let me know if you are interested in what I have in stock. It’s just listed on the web site.

How’s that?

God bless,
T
 
Thank you for the constructive criticism. I will try to defend.
  1. Though the web site is not necessarily the best reflection of our apostolate due to many things like the lack of money, skill, and resources, we’re not trying to be trendy. Nearly everything we sell is counter-cultural (even within the mainstream of the Church), and most of our designs are based off of icons and sacred art.
One consideration…If you took our apparel and coffee away, we are selling nothing but Traditional Catholic books (mostly written by Saints!) on monasticism, the Traditional Latin Mass, the Social Kingship of Christ, and the Religious Life; Sacred Music - exclusively Gregorian Chant (we don’t even sell contemporary music!); Rosaries, Medals, Crucifixes, Scapulars (which most Catholics don’t wear anymore), Chapel Veils (which even fewer Catholics wear), and videos. What’s “trendy” about Sacramentals, Chant, Monasticism, and the Traditional Latin Mass?

I think part of the problem is that most of the mainstream Catholic culture one sees in Catholic bookstores, parishes, and other Catholic merchandise is very modern, abstract, gimmicky, heretical, or just bad - like Soccer Jesus statues, stations of the Cross in the form of quilts, pop psychology books, and t-shirts that compare the Seven Sacraments to the 7-Eleven gas station. Or, in Traditionalist circles, there is the over-reaction against the Modernists, and therefore they are fearful of all things “new”, technological, decorative, or even classic. I think you may be associating something that actually looks aesthetically appealing with some “trendy” because what we do is actually done well. I don’t know.
  1. We’re not youth driven really at all.
The majority of our customer base is over 30 years old (mostly married with many children) and many as old as in their 60’s (with grandchildren) and more academically driven. We have done ok with Catholic youth (I guess), but in all honesty, they don’t understand much of what we do or sell because they don’t know much about the Faith (usually asking, “What’s this?”). I was in the midst of 25,000 of them last fall… apart from the little buttons, it was over their head.

Catholic youth - and this is confirmed by friends I have who do Catholic youth and young adult ministry full-time - are lost. It’s very sad. I don’t blame them. It’s what they have been taught and not taught. My point, we’re not trying to appeal to youth “where their at”. We’re trying to bring them to timeless unchanging Tradition of the One, Holy, Roman Church. So any “youthiness” we have is merely coincidental.

For the record, our apostolate is taken very seriously by the priests, bishops, Religious, and professors I speak with face-to-face around the country (over 100,000 people just last year) as well as online internationally.

Now, something like LifeTeen is trendy and youth-driven. And I don’t see us having a single thing in common with them.
  1. I do not see how the coffee names are “flippant” and different that what has been done by Religious Orders for centuries with beers and fruitcakes. I don’ know why you can’t see the connection…
The names, like “Little Flower” and “Brother Broom” ARE the actual nicknames of the Saints. We didn’t make anything up. We also took the time to associate their coffees with their patronage or story.

There is a Traditional Carmelite Order in Wyoming who started roasting and selling their own coffee called “Mystic Monk”. Is that flippant? Do you have a problem with what they are doing?

Thank you for caring enough to post your criticism. I hope you don’t mind me taking the time to clarify our position.

St. Bernadette, pray for us.
Thank you for your clarifications, and no I don’t mind. My criticisms are based on first impressions. When I click on the website, my first impression is one of trendy and youthful (particularly the image of the girl, which is nice but it makes me think “goth”). I do recognize that you are promoting traditional Catholicism and selling really good material, but I’m just telling you my first impression. Like they say, first impressions are the most important, and you can’t take back a first impression.

That said, I would take your apostolate over any of the modern, NO “youth ministry” stuff, such as LifeTeen.

Despite my criticisms, I wish you all the best and pray that you will make a difference in some of our young people’s lives.

God bless.
 
No problem. I appreciate your acceptance of my clarifications. I hope the truth of the matter can overshadow your first impressions and become your lasting one.

Our apostolate needs the help of others - prayers, word-of-mouth promotion, and yes, donations and sales. So, if you believe in the work we are doing, please pray for us, offer Mass intentions on our behalf, and spread the word. Our Lord and Our Lady are truly doing good things through this work.

I, am my family, have committed ourselves to a life of religious (and economic) poverty for the sake of the Church and the spreading of Tradition. This isn’t a hobby. Though it is a labour of (divine) love - and I love what I do - it is a life of sacrifice and a (week-to-week, month-to-month) dependency on God’s provision through the generosity of others.

However, though I would like to see our apostolate continue to grow for the salvation of souls, I am content with what Our Lord provides and the pace at which He works in and through us. For I know He blesses what He wills. So I will only do this as long as it is His will.

I wish there were a thousand “MonkRock”'s, but there is truly nothing like what we are doing in the United States (maybe beyond). There are a lot of apostolates out there. Yet, the ones that are active in the life of the mainstream of the Church, are not promoting Catholic Tradition (not to say they are all bad or all that they do is bad; please do not hear me wrong). They are either well-intentioned (though many are not) but are promoting the counterfeit Liberal / Modernist version of the Catholic Faith or doing it just as a job to make money.

In the US (at least), the ones that are faithful to Tradition are not present in any of the national conferences I attend. They tend to stay within their own corner of the Church and “preach” more to the “converted” (those who are already in Tradition). Not that I am condemning them; I am just stating the fact of the matter.

We are trying to be faithful to Tradition but active in the life of the Church. Not that there is agenda beyond being faithful to God, the Church, Tradition, and the salvation of souls, we do want to show that Tradition is not the for the days of old, and just because the baby-boomers abandoned the Faith, Tradition is for all ages for all time. Catholics of Tradition must truly live the fullness of the Faith - yes, Divine Truth but not at the expense of Divine Charity. As St. James said, “Even the devils believe…”

As St. Paul said, how can they hear the truth of the Gospel is sent to preach? Please consider supporting our apostolate.

St. Francis - herald of the great King to those outside the city walls - pray for us.
T
 
Thank you.

Actually I have some 3X in the Fashion Fit (Benedict Medal - Black version and Brown version as well as Black Holy Spirit Dove) which are about the same as the 2X Basic Tee, maybe slightly bigger. I am not sure what you would think. If you want one of those, let me know. I have never done 3X hoodies but I can.

If you want a 3X Basic Tee or Hoodie, e-mail me at monk@monkrock.com what you are interested in, with your basic contact info, and I will put it on my back order list. I will let you know when I do a new run of something, and can throw in some 3X sizes for you. Let me know if you are interested in what I have in stock. It’s just listed on the web site.

How’s that?

God bless,
T
Fair enough, I’ll email you soon. 👍
 
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