A new Ice Age approaches?

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No, it doesn’t, actually. What it demonstrates is that things are more complicated than most of us suspect.
I tend to the ‘no matter how complicated some things seem, they’re infinitely more complicated than that’ tendency - that and the ‘unintended consequences of one’s actions usually end up being of most consequence’.
Another example: Child safety. When I was a kid, nobody thought it unusual for a 1st grader to walk a mile to school by himself or go play with peers unsupervised for hours at a time on a Saturday.
One thing nobody wants to do is get me going on that, I could bore at Olympic standard on the subject. 😃
 
I’m sorry but this is absolutely false. It is a matter of established scientific fact that CO2 concentration increases in the atmosphere have a warming effect on the Earth. No scientist debates this at all. It is as certain a thing as there is in science. How much of an effect, how much CO2 increase is our fault, and what the ultimate effect will be on the planet, these are unknowns.
No, it is NOT, repeat, NOT, an established fact that CO2 concentration increases in the atmosphere have a warming effect.

The entire Greenhouse Gas Theory has been disproven. Many scientists debate this. It is not science at all, but political agenda driven balderdash. The ‘scientists’ who support it are those in line for grants for ‘alleged global warming research’. They are only interested in the money, not the science, imho.
Greenhouse Gases Disproved pt. 1

Greenhouse Theory disproven in 1909, 1963, 1966, 1973…but still refuses to die

Greenhouse Theory Disproved a Century Ago

Former NASA scientist debunks CO2 greenhouse theory


Now satellite radiation data debunks global warming theory


The only way CO2 is a greenhouse gas is that it is pumped into greenhouses to increase the production of vegetables.

As for things getting colder: Darwin is in the tropics.
Coldest May on record for Darwin

In addition, all efforts to reduce CO2 emissions have just been rendered useless with the eruption of the volcanoes in Iceland and Chile, among others. No one seems to have mentioned that along with massive clouds of ash, they have been pumping out megatonnes of CO2 and other so-called greenhouse gases. Course, it they keep it up, the ash in the atmosphere could block sunlight from reaching the surface and we could have another ‘Year without a Summer’.
A weak solar maximum, a major volcanic eruption, and possibly even the wobbling of the Sun conspired to make the summer of 1816 one of the most miserable ever recorded.
 
Linda Marie:
The entire Greenhouse Gas Theory has been disproven
This is just a ridiculous assertion. And you have what to back it up? A few artilces that have been outdated for decades? A blog from the telegraph? And an article from some politically motivated anti-global warming website? And I’m suppose to take this assertion at face value over the all the peer reviewed evbidence contradicting it? Would you have me believe that the vast majority of trained scientists have been blinded by their politics intp believing in a theory disproven over a century ago, but then accept that a blog entry in the Telegraph is an unbiased, scientifically credible source?
 
This is just a ridiculous assertion. And you have what to back it up? A few artilces that have been outdated for decades? A blog from the telegraph? And an article from some politically motivated anti-global warming website? And I’m suppose to take this assertion at face value over the all the peer reviewed evbidence contradicting it? Would you have me believe that the vast majority of trained scientists have been blinded by their politics intp believing in a theory disproven over a century ago, but then accept that a blog entry in the Telegraph is an unbiased, scientifically credible source?
What peer-review? What ‘vast majority’? It is a handful of scientists who only have their papers reviewed by others who ‘believe’ in global warming.

Why should I believe such ‘trained scientists’ like Michael Mann who got sprung falsifying his data to achieve the desired result?

The Greenhouse Gas Theory was first proposed more than a century ago (1824). If the papers debunking it are ‘outdated’ 180 odd years after the proposal of the theory, why isn’t the theory itself outdated?

There is no ‘greenhouse’ layer that reflects heat back to the surface. This is a fabrication.

Falsification of the Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within the Frame of Physics
<…> The German physicists prove that even if CO2 concentrations double (a prospect even global warming advocates admit is decades away), the thermal conductivity of air would not change more than 0.03%. They show that the classic concept of the glass greenhouse wholly fails to replicate the physics of Earth’s climate.
They also prove that a greenhouse operates as a “closed” system while the planet works as an “open” system and the term “atmospheric greenhouse effect” does not occur in any fundamental work involving thermodynamics, physical kinetics, or radiation theory. All through their paper the German scientists show how the greenhouse gas theory relies on guesstimates about the scientific properties involved to “calculate” the chaotic interplay of such a myriad and unquantifiable array of factors that is beyond even the abilities of the most powerful of modern supercomputers.
The fact that this paper is from 2009 does not negate the physics. As Scotty would say, “Ye cannae violate the laws of physics.”
co2insanity.com/2011/04/18/debunking-the-greenhouse-gas-theory-in-three-simple-steps/
But at last we know for sure that the doomsaying equations behind the man-made global warming new research shows the numbers were fudged, the physics was misapplied and group thinking perpetuated gross errors.
Yes, the greenhouse effect has now been proven to be a fabrication. That mythical concept called ‘back radiation’ whereby heat was supposed to be recycled in the atmosphere and worsened by the dreaded burning of fossil fuels is contradicted. In reality it’s now been shown that the atmosphere acts like a coolant of Earth’s surface, which, otherwise, would have a temperature of 121 Degrees Celsius, or 394 Kelvin (K).
A team of dedicated international experts, known as the ‘Slayers,’ all highly qualified in their respective fields, spent the past year deliberating over the** deep-rooted errors in the calculations employed in the greenhouse gas theory**. Their findings are devastating to all those who claim carbon dioxide and the ‘greenhouse effect’ heats our atmosphere.
Harvard astrophysicist dismisses AGW theory, challenges peers to ‘take back climate science’
In the following interview, Dr. Willie Soon, a solar and climate scientist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, questions the prevailing dogma of man-made global warming and challenges his peers to “take back climate science.” His remarks are his personal opinion based upon 19 years of scientific research.
ClimateTruth: What is your opinion of the anthropogenic (man-caused) global warming theory?
Dr. Soon: It’s never been about the science – even from the very beginning. It’s based on confusion and a mixture of ideology. We should deal only in the facts that we do know.
ClimateTruth: Many of the scientists promoting the global warming theory appear to be driven by politics rather than hard scientific data. What are your thoughts?
Dr. Soon: I am a scientist. I go where the facts take me. And the facts are fairly clear. It doesn’t take very long to discover that their views [of man-caused global warming] aren’t grounded in the facts. Why would any solid science need so much promotion and advertisement and the endless shouting about how the science has all been “settled”? And now we’re supposed to believe that the growing consensus on the street that humans are not responsible for global warming is due mainly to the confusion created by climate “deniers.”
Back on topic:
Earth may be headed into a mini Ice Age within a decade
The Sun normally follows an 11-year cycle of activity. The current cycle, Cycle 24, is now supposed to be ramping up towards maximum strength. Increased numbers of sunspots and other indications ought to be happening: but in fact results so far are most disappointing. Scientists at the NSO now suspect, based on data showing decades-long trends leading to this point, that Cycle 25 may not happen at all.
 
The question remains how can the rest of us choose between our suspicions of it being the best researchers academic self-interest might produce against the best researchers money can buy?
 
The question remains how can the rest of us choose between our suspicions of it being the best researchers academic self-interest might produce against the best researchers money can buy?
Good question. For me, it has been to re-evaluate energy consumption choices and look for ways that I spend money (and incidentally generate CO2) in ways that really minimally benefit my family. There’s no downside to having good home insulation, or buying a house the size you can use rather than one with rooms you never even use. I discovered that my stick shift 40mpg econo-beater is really not that much less enjoyable to drive than my 21mpg luxury sport sedan used to be (thank the economy for that discovery). 77 degree AC with ceiling fans feels as good as 74 degree without fans used to. Wearing sweaters all winter long (with lower furnace setting) hides my belly!

In short, we’ve been conditioned by a LOT of marketing to believe we can’t be happy without being wasteful. It’s not true. Some of the happiest people I’ve encountered in my life have been dirt poor and I’ve met some wretchedly miserable rich people. Why not life simpler and retire sooner? If it “saves the earth” along the way, bonus!
 
So we can expect more Yeti sightings and fewer sasquatches?
That’s all I need right now, Yeti skulking through the neighborhood picking through trash and stomping around the garden…stupid global cooling. :mad:
 
As I understand it, it’s already been fairly well established that solar sunspot cycles when compared to greenhouse gas emissions have a smaller effect on global surface temperature, and climate scientists have done fairly well in quantitating how much each effect contributed to 20th century warming:

meteo.psu.edu/%7Emann/shared/articles/littleiceage.pdf
bill.srnr.arizona.edu/classes/182h/Climate/Solar/Maunder%20Minimum.pdf
springerlink.com/content/fr9wrun5bpuprh77/

Recent predictions have even taken into account a possible Maunder Minimum, yet still render an increase in global temperatures:

agu.org/pubs/crossref/2010/2010GL042710.shtml
climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/FreeRobock1999JD900233.pdf
agu.org/journals/pip/gl/2010GL042710-pip.pdf

Furthermore, solar grand minima have been only one proposed cause for the “Little Ice Age”, while historic increases in volcanism rates served as a rate accelerator (there have been no comparable increases in volcanic activity today):

journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%281995%29008%3C1086%3ATVSIST%3E2.0.CO%3B2
acrim.com/Reference%20Files/Sun%20&%20Global%20Warming_GRL_2006.pdf
pages.unibe.ch/products/scientific_foci/qsr_pages/zielinski.pdf

And yet, even freakier, should a hypothetical Maunder Minimum present itself and its effects of global surface temperature decrease outweigh the effects of temperature increase due to greenhouse gas emissions, there seems to be a positive feedback mechanism between the decrease in temperature and the acceleration of CO₂ output: in other words, even if a new “Little Ice Age” should present itself, increases in CO₂ emissions could actually make the ice age worse than it otherwise would be:

geosci-webdev.uchicago.edu/%7Earcher/reprints/archer.2005.trigger.pdf

A (very) generalized comparison of anthropogenic effects versus natural effects on temperature (directed toward laymen):
ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-2-1.html
 
hopefully once this new trend is more thoroughly studied, accepted, and understood by the greater scientific community, kimmielittle et. al can begin attacking it as a leftist political conspiracy.
 
hopefully once this new trend is more thoroughly studied, accepted, and understood by the greater scientific community, kimmielittle et. al can begin attacking it as a leftist political conspiracy.
Don’t name drop on Kimmie - all of her posts in this thread (or anywhere I’ve read for that matter) are professional and polite. :tsktsk: No need to single her out.
 
Leave Kimmie alone,many people including a plethora of scientists agree with her.Climate change"The Sky is Falling!" bumph is bankrupt,no one listens to Al Gore and it IS a leftard income redistribution scheme-carbon credits anyone?Communism failed so all the lefties moved into the environmental bushwah.
 
Don’t name drop on Kimmie - all of her posts in this thread (or anywhere I’ve read for that matter) are professional and polite. :tsktsk: No need to single her out.
you’re right. sorry about that kimmielittle.
 
The latest report on Global Climate Change: “We are confident that it might get colder…or warmer…or stay the same for the next several decades.”
 
hopefully once this new trend is more thoroughly studied, accepted, and understood by the greater scientific community, kimmielittle et. al can begin attacking it as a leftist political conspiracy.
Hiyas 🙂

I’m sorry you feel that way.

I’m a kid and extremely curious:D

Might I ask you a few questions, please?

1: Would you buy a car not knowing the price?

2: Would you buy a car without knowing if it runs?

3: Would you buy a car but not take possession for hmmm say 100 - 600 years but required to pay the same amount for those years say the car originally cost $30.00 but every year you had to pay at least $30.00 more for 100 - 600 years - even if 50 years down the road you somehow - found out the car doesn’t run ].

4: Can you tell me the cost of 50% reduction of CO2?

5 Can you tell me at 50% reduction of CO2 how much the temperature will drop?

6: Can you tell me how long it will take at 50% reduction of CO2 to see that amount of temperature drop?

I have asked these same questions to Scientists - Activists - Politicians - Catholics - Atheists - Leftists - Conservatives - Rightists - Conservationist.

I am told this is the basic maths Although no costs are included ]
Q. What is the central estimate of the anthropogenic global warming, in Celsius degrees, that would be forestalled by 2020 if a) Australia alone and b) the whole world cut carbon emissions stepwise until by 2020 they were 5% below today’s emissions?
Answer a). Australia accounts for (at most) 1.5% of global carbon emissions. A stepwise 5% cut by 2020 is an average 2.5% cut from now till then. CO2 concentration by 2020, taking the IPCC’s A2 scenario, will be 412 parts per million by volume, compared with 390 ppmv now. So Man will have added 22 ppmv by 2020, without any cuts in emissions. The CO2 concentration increase forestalled by almost a decade of cap-and-tax in Australia would thus be 2.5% of 1.5% of 22 ppmv, or 0.00825 ppmv. So in 2020 CO2 concentration would be 411.99175 ppmv instead of 412 ppmv…
So the proportionate change in CO2 concentration if the Commission and Ms. Gillard got their way would be 411.99175/412, or 0.99997998. The IPCC says warming or cooling, in Celsius degrees, is 3.7-5.7 times the logarithm of the proportionate change: central estimate 4.7. Also, it expects only 57% of manmade warming to occur by 2100: the rest would happen slowly and harmlessly over perhaps 1000 years.
So the warming forestalled by cutting Australia’s emissions would be 57% of 4.7 times the logarithm of 0.99997998: that is – wait for it, wait for it – a dizzying 0.00005 Celsius, or around one-twenty-thousandth of a Celsius degree. Your estimate of a thousandth of a degree was a 20-fold exaggeration – not that Flannery was ever going to tell you that, of course.
Answer b) . We do the same calculation for the whole world, thus:
2.5% of 22 ppmv = 0.55 ppmv. Warming forestalled by 2020 = 0.57 x 4.7 ln(412-0.55)/412] < 0.004 Celsius, or less than four one-thousandths of a Celsius degree, or around one-two-hundred-and-eightieth of a Celsius degree. And that at a cost of trillions.
A cautionary note: the warming forestalled will only be this big if the IPCC’s central estimate of the rate at which adding CO2 to the atmosphere causes warming is correct. However, it’s at least a twofold exaggeration and probably more like fourfold. So divide both the above answers by, say, 3 to get what will still probably be an overestimate of the warming forestalled.
I hope you now see my problems with being forced to buy this car I don’t care who is selling it - Scientists - Activists - Politicians - Catholics - Atheists - Leftists - Conservatives - Rightists - Conservationist. ] AND I still don’t know it’s cost OR how many years it will take before I even get to see it. If at all ].

If I’m gonna be forced to buy this car - I expect the rest of the claims - science – data - reports etc to be sqeekie clean and transparent …Do you agree that I at least deserve that?
 
Originally posted by xixxvmcm85
As I understand it, it’s already been fairly well established that solar sunspot cycles when compared to greenhouse gas emissions have a smaller effect on global surface temperature, and climate scientists have done fairly well in quantitating how much each effect contributed to 20th century warming:
Global surface temperature reading data bases are corrupt with the numbers having been changed to match the desired outcome and the original databases ‘lost’. It is all a load of malarky with no real science, only ideology. How can they quantify effect on global surface temperature when they cannot even calculate that correctly?
8 Let’s talk science now. Who has been keeping data on this thing we refer to as ‘global warming’? And are the data accurate?
There is no scientific basis for alarm about anthropogenic ‘global warming’. It has been calculated theoretically (e.g. Lindzen, 2007; Schwartz, 2007; Monckton, 2008) and confirmed empirically by direct measurement of outgoing long-wave radiation from the Earth’s characteristic-emission level (e.g. Covey, 1995; Wielicki, Wong et al., 2002 [but see Wong, Wielicki et al., 2006]; Chen et al., 2002; Cess & Udelhofen, 2003; Hatzidimitriou et al. 2004; Clement & Soden, 2005) and by direct measurement of ocean temperatures in the mixed layer (e.g. Lyman et al., 2006 as amended; Gouretski & Koltermann, 2007; Willis, 2008, 2009; Loehle, 2009); that the IPCC’s central estimate of climate sensitivity to atmospheric CO2 enrichment has been exaggerated, perhaps by as much as an order of magnitude.
There is clear evidence that a small but powerful and financially well-rewarded cabal of scientists are driving the climate scare, and are becoming increasingly desperate as opinion polls show that fewer and fewer of the voters (in countries lucky enough to have voters) believe in the climate nonsense any more.
I now propose to give some examples of serious data tampering, to give some idea of the extreme lengths that those who have manufactured and peddled this baseless scare have gone to in order to try to convince an increasingly reluctant public that, as the Waxman/Markey climate Bill suggests, five-sixths of the US economy should be closed down in the specious name of Saving The Planet.
Let us begin with a temperature graph taken from the 2007 climate assessment report of the UN’s climate panel, the IPCC. The graph falsely purports to show that the warming rate has been inexorably increasing throughout the past 150 years.
If a new ice age comes, we will cope. If it gets warmer, we will cope. Mankind always has. We adapt to our environment. We have lived, thrived, at temperatures both higher and lower than what we have now. The earth, in Roman times, was much warmer than it is now, yet we emerged from an ice age. The planet is dynamic. It has changed ever since it was first formed millions of years ago and will continue to change, without any help or (name removed by moderator)ut from mankind.

It is the proposed ‘solution’ to Global Warming that is leftist by way of the Carbon Tax.
This is merely a way to redistribute the wealth.

Our current PM, dear Julia, despite promising in her election campaign, “NO CARBON TAX”, now wants to introduce it. She just tried to allocate $12M to advertise the carbon tax although they haven’t worked out the details. So, basically, it is $12M of taxpayer’s money going to fund Labor’s propaganda campaign to try to convince us that a carbon tax would be a good thing.

It is not. A carbon tax would be the absolutely worst response. It will have no effect on the greenhouse gas layer because there is no greenhouse gas layer. The only thing it will do is make everything more expensive while channelling our hard-earned money from our pockets into the government’s. We may as well have our pay checks deposited in the National Treasury and have the government dole out what they think we need, while they live like royalty.

On top of all the natural disasters we’ve had lately, all it will do is drive industry to countries with do not have a carbon tax, thereby removing jobs for Australian citizens, and cause all Australians to descend into poverty and dependence on government handouts.

With the cyclones, floods, and now a mouse plague, our crops have taken a beating. Tomatoes were $16 a kilo ($8.50 a pound or thereabouts) when I went shopping yesterday. There was a young man at the bin, looking wistfully at the tomatoes before deciding that he couldn’t afford them. So much produce is going to waste because we can’t afford to buy it.

Once the carbon tax puts all of this out of the reach of our pocketbooks, the farmers will go bankrupt. Many are up against the wall right now from the disasters. If they leave the land, who will grow our crops?

There is just so much wrong with putting a price on carbon. It is a scam like the Emperor’s New Clothes. They sell it by saying that only the truly wise can accept Global Warming and the benefit of a carbon tax and that those who oppose it are stupid, misguided deniers.

We need the child to stand up and say, “He isn’t wearing any clothes!”
 
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