M
moosears
Guest
Well…can we** back** to a nice civil discussion of things we share in common now?
- Status
P
Pax_et_Caritas
Guest
OK, I’ll resist my impulse to respond to Catherina’s last post and let it rest.
BTW, I was conditionally re-baptized and received into the Catholic Church on March 12, 1998, and confirmed on May 9th of the same year.
P
Pax_et_Caritas
Guest
Do you mean that is not what we’ve been having?
C
catharina
Guest
W
wildleafblower
Guest
Music to my ears! My soul jumps with joy:extrahappy:BTW, I was conditionally re-baptized and received into the Catholic Church on March 12, 1998, and confirmed on May 9th of the same year.
God Bless YOU!
Praise be to God! The best news I’ve heard today. You are special.
:clapping:(I’m a vintage Roman Catholic. I should read through all the messages but for now I’m profoundly joyful and will end on that note. May we all be blessed with peace of mind.)
M
moosears
Guest
I would hardly call the accusation of pride and backing a person into a corner civil. It appeared more like bullying.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Since we have been discussing the role of Mary in the lives of each of us, and since I have discussed my own difficulties in having any feelings or emotions in regard to her in my journey, I have noticed over the last day or two, more of an urge to ask for her intervention in my life.Yes. We share a love for Mary, Mother of Christ and our mother too.
Honestly, I just have been much more free to ask for her prayers. I’m thinking our discussions have helped me in this. Sometimes it helps us to just see or hear the reasons, the logic until the barriers start to fall away. Baby steps.
I just wanted to share that with you all.
M
moosears
Guest
This is very uplifting to know. That is what these forums are for. To help us all grow spiritually within the Mystical Body of Christ together. These baby steps could eventually open a flood of graces that were previously unknown to you. It really pleases our Lord for us to go to Mary with our needs. I remember being very hesitant to pray to Mary before my conversion. Once I began and let go of my concerns, she was right there with me every day. I could actually sense her presence and her loving care for me. She nursed me into her Son’s Mystical Body, the Church. I have to admit my devotion to her has waned and I must pick it up again. I can almost hear her calling me to return to her loving guidance.Since we have been discussing the role of Mary in the lives of each of us, and since I have discussed my own difficulties in having any feelings or emotions in regard to her in my journey, I have noticed over the last day or two, more of an urge to ask for her intervention in my life.
Honestly, I just have been much more free to ask for her prayers. I’m thinking our discussions have helped me in this. Sometimes it helps us to just see or hear the reasons, the logic until the barriers start to fall away. Baby steps.
I just wanted to share that with you all.
J
JReducation
Guest
Like they said in the Wizard of Oz, the cowardly lion was the most courageous creature. His cowardice was not cowardice at all, but in fact it was a lack of a cause. Once he found a cause for which to stand up for, the courage that he didn’t know he had surffaced.Since we have been discussing the role of Mary in the lives of each of us, and since I have discussed my own difficulties in having any feelings or emotions in regard to her in my journey, I have noticed over the last day or two, more of an urge to ask for her intervention in my life.
Honestly, I just have been much more free to ask for her prayers. I’m thinking our discussions have helped me in this. Sometimes it helps us to just see or hear the reasons, the logic until the barriers start to fall away. Baby steps.
I just wanted to share that with you all.
That happens to many of us on the spiritual journey. We believe that we just can’t do it, until we find a reason to do it and then be careful. God opens the floodgates.
As you gradually open up to our Heavenly Mother you’ll reach a point where you will wonder how you ever lived without her presence in your life or better yet, without noticing her presence in your life.
Having come from a family with the role of the mother was always to be the preserver of the faith, I can’t imagine how so many people in the world deny Mary’s spiritual maternity. I don’t mean you. I’m talking globally here.
If we look at “functional” families, the mother is usually the gatekeeper. Everything goes through mom before it reaches Dad. It is not uncommon for Moms to bail Dads out either, especially in crise with their children.
I believe that the same spiritual role applies to Mary in our lives. She is the gatekeeper of this great family that we call the Mystical Body. The most beautiful example of this is the wedding at Cana.
Fraternally,
JR
J
JReducation
Guest
P
Pax_et_Caritas
Guest
I think you are doing great. I understand the difficulty with Mary for former Protestants. Fortunately, Mary was not too much of a stumbling block for me (actually, she is who led me into the Church), but my family are all Protestants and I see how much of a problem she is for them.Since we have been discussing the role of Mary in the lives of each of us, and since I have discussed my own difficulties in having any feelings or emotions in regard to her in my journey, I have noticed over the last day or two, more of an urge to ask for her intervention in my life.
Honestly, I just have been much more free to ask for her prayers. I’m thinking our discussions have helped me in this. Sometimes it helps us to just see or hear the reasons, the logic until the barriers start to fall away. Baby steps.
I just wanted to share that with you all.
It takes time to come to an understanding of Mary’s role. God desires for you to have a better understanding of Mary, and I can tell that you would like to have a better understanding of her, and her role. You don’t need to pretend that you are completely comfortable with the marian teachings at this time. Instead, pray that God will give you a better understanding of her. If we lack something that God desires us to have, God wills that we ask Him for it. And God does desire you to have a deeper understanding for the Blessed Mother.
Even though you are still growing in your understading of Mary’s role, I would suggest that you say the Rosary every day without fail. That prayer is very powerful. I started praying it before I converted. I realize now how much grace I receive from that prayer.
If you get a Rosary tape, or CD, you can pray in while you are in the car.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Thanks to both of you, Moosears and JR.Like they said in the Wizard of Oz, the cowardly lion was the most courageous creature. His cowardice was not cowardice at all, but in fact it was a lack of a cause. Once he found a cause for which to stand up for, the courage that he didn’t know he had surffaced.
That happens to many of us on the spiritual journey. We believe that we just can’t do it, until we find a reason to do it and then be careful. God opens the floodgates.
As you gradually open up to our Heavenly Mother you’ll reach a point where you will wonder how you ever lived without her presence in your life or better yet, without noticing her presence in your life.
Having come from a family with the role of the mother was always to be the preserver of the faith, I can’t imagine how so many people in the world deny Mary’s spiritual maternity. I don’t mean you. I’m talking globally here.
If we look at “functional” families, the mother is usually the gatekeeper. Everything goes through mom before it reaches Dad. It is not uncommon for Moms to bail Dads out either, especially in crise with their children.
I believe that the same spiritual role applies to Mary in our lives. She is the gatekeeper of this great family that we call the Mystical Body. The most beautiful example of this is the wedding at Cana.
Fraternally,
JR
I often have felt as though there was something wrong with my Catholic faith, new as it is, as though it wasn’t complete because I didn’t always have feelings to go along with my understanding.
I have come to realize, and am still coming to realize day by day, that most things are not instantaneous in our spiritual journeys, but often the opposite, it takes a lot of perseverance in staying the course with an openness to just allow it to unfold, without force.
Ccccccourage, as that dear old lion would say.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Thanks Pax, for your encouragement. I actually do have the Rosary on CD (with Fr. Groeschel) and the morning drive is my main Rosary devotion time. I find it a very peaceful place in the day for me. I’m sure this devotion time has been a great help in my spiritual development. I don’t plan on giving it up anytime soon!
C
catharina
Guest
Beautiful, Jeanette, and wonderful too.Thanks Pax, for your encouragement. I actually do have the Rosary on CD (with Fr. Groeschel) and the morning drive is my main Rosary devotion time. I find it a very peaceful place in the day for me. I’m sure this devotion time has been a great help in my spiritual development. I don’t plan on giving it up anytime soon!
J
JReducation
Guest
I agree with Pax that Mary is problematic for many Reformation Ecclesial Communities. I believe there are several reasons for this.
It’s interesting, because for Jews, Mary is not problematic. The problem for Jews is the hypostatic union and the Trinity.
Fraternally,
JR
- Semantics are a problem. Terms like co-redemptrix often confuse people and they think that Catholics believe that Mary is a co-redeemer, instead of co-operator with redemption.
- The perpetual virginity of Mary seems to be a big problem, because of the use of such terms in the scriptures as the “brothers” of Jesus and Mary gave birth to her firstborn son. Many people don’t realize that the term “first-born” was a very special title given to the male heir in Jewish culture. This term is really saying something of Jesus than about Mary having more children. Jesus is the heir.
- The Immaculate Conception of Mary didn’t become dogma until the 19th century. So that was something that neither the Reformation communities nor the Orthodox Churches took with them. At the time of their departure, this was a part of Tradition, but not a dogma. To many I believe that it would sound as if we were saying that she is equal to Christ when we say that she is perfect and sinless.
It’s interesting, because for Jews, Mary is not problematic. The problem for Jews is the hypostatic union and the Trinity.
Fraternally,
JR
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
I can attest to this as a convert, that all the above is true.I agree with Pax that Mary is problematic for many Reformation Ecclesial Communities. I believe there are several reasons for this.
Not having been a Protestant, this is my point of view from the outside. Those who come from that tradition probably have a different perspective.
- Semantics are a problem. Terms like co-redemptrix often confuse people and they think that Catholics believe that Mary is a co-redeemer, instead of co-operator with redemption.
- The perpetual virginity of Mary seems to be a big problem, because of the use of such terms in the scriptures as the “brothers” of Jesus and Mary gave birth to her firstborn son. Many people don’t realize that the term “first-born” was a very special title given to the male heir in Jewish culture. This term is really saying something of Jesus than about Mary having more children. Jesus is the heir.
- The Immaculate Conception of Mary didn’t become dogma until the 19th century. So that was something that neither the Reformation communities nor the Orthodox Churches took with them. At the time of their departure, this was a part of Tradition, but not a dogma. To many I believe that it would sound as if we were saying that she is equal to Christ when we say that she is perfect and sinless.
It’s interesting, because for Jews, Mary is not problematic. The problem for Jews is the hypostatic union and the Trinity.
Fraternally,
JR
Then throw in the constant preaching that Catholics worship Mary and the Saints, that Mary is given the status of the Divine, that we are to pray only to God (this comes from a misunderstanding of prayer in and of itself) and many other misunderstandings concerning Catholic traditional devotions and gestures. We are programmed to believe that it is paramount to apostacy and idol worship to hold Mary and all the Saints in such great regard, as it displaces God from His throne.
A lot to overcome. And even when the head has it all figured out, the emotional self still has reactions for quite some time.
C
catharina
Guest
O Mary, conceived without sin,Not having been a Protestant, this is my point of view from the outside. Those who come from that tradition probably have a different perspective.
- The Immaculate Conception of Mary didn’t become dogma until the 19th century. So that was something that neither the Reformation communities nor the Orthodox Churches took with them. At the time of their departure, this was a part of Tradition, but not a dogma. To many I believe that it would sound as if we were saying that she is equal to Christ when we say that she is perfect and sinless.
This astounding event, the doctrinal declaration has left all Catholics - growing from baptized infants or as converts of any age - with the absolute truth of KNOWING “when does life began?” We KNOW, through faith, by this doctrine of our faith: Life begins at conception. We HAVE this truth. To be Catholic, we must accept the truth of the Immaculate Conception. What a gift for us - of faith, of grace, of certainty. It astounds me! Surely, God sees clearly down the road. What a wealth of truth for our own day and age.
It’s interesting, because for Jews, Mary is not problematic. The problem for Jews is the hypostatic union and the Trinity.
Fraternally,
JR
pray for us who have recourse to thee!
P
Pax_et_Caritas
Guest
Exactly. And the good thing is, you are being guided by your head, not by your emotions.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
I also want to add to my thoughts above that the Protestant world has a huge lack of understanding of the Mystical Body. Many of their misgivings come from not seeing the Church as a living and growing entity through the ages, that each member lives on through eternity, never being severed from that active Body. The view is not eternal in this regard, although they have belief in eternal life, it is not the same.
They do not see the members as remaining active after the physical body dies. They see the separation from this world as a separation from all activity within the Church or Christ’s Body. It places them at a huge disadvantage in being able to grasp the reason, the logic behind the intervention, the ongoing prayers of the Saints on our behalf and our continued communion with them.
I hope this makes sense.
They do not see the members as remaining active after the physical body dies. They see the separation from this world as a separation from all activity within the Church or Christ’s Body. It places them at a huge disadvantage in being able to grasp the reason, the logic behind the intervention, the ongoing prayers of the Saints on our behalf and our continued communion with them.
I hope this makes sense.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Yes. Now I have the most difficult task of finding that balance, that integration between the two, the heart and the mind.Baby steps!
- Status