A pearly gate question?

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Contarini said:
We are saved by the grace of God only, not by knowing the right answer to a question. This metaphor is heretical–it’s reminiscent of the Gnostic business of knowing the right passwords.

Faith in Jesus isn’t a magic password that we present at the gate. It is the means by which we share in the divine nature through the saving work of Christ.

In Him,

Edwin
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Edwin
I meant our Lord no disrespect.
Simon
 
Seamus_Sully said:
Love is in charge of faith.

One must love God!!! Then one will believe Him and His Son.

Remember, love is the first commandment. This is a cardinal number.

God love you!!!

Martin, what do you think? my favorit martin
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God love you too Sully!
 
This is not directed at you personally, martin, but I seem to recall a passage in Scripture where Jesus separated people into the “sheep” and the “goats”. And He told the goats to begone. But they said, “Lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name and prophesied in your name”; but He tells them, "Away from me, you evildoers. For I was hungry, and you gave me no food; thirsty and you gave me no drink; naked and you did not clothe me; sick and in prison and you did not visit me. And they answered, “When, Lord, did we see you hungry and not feed you; thirsty and not give you drink; naked, sick, in prison and not attend you?” And He answered, Whatever you did not do to the least of my brothers, you did not do to me.

And to the sheep, He told them to enter into eternal life, saying, When I was hungry, you fed me; thirsty and you gave me drink; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison and you visited me. And they likewise answered, “When, Lord, did we see you hungry and feed you; thirsty and give you drink; naked, sick in prison and attended you?” And He answered, Whatever you did for the least of my brothers, that you did to me.

Note that we are judged not on whether we did great deeds of power and prophesy, or even ‘spoke’ of Jesus Himself. . .we are judged on what we do for others. For what we do for ‘the least of our brothers’–that we do to Him.

Faith is necessary to do those works of love for God; faith is ‘incomplete’ if all we do is ‘say’ that ‘we believe’ but show, through our lack of love shown by lack of care for ‘the least ones’ that we really lack faith. In the end, there are three things, as Paul tells us. . .faith, hope, and love. And ‘the greatest of these is love.’ Not ‘faith’, but ‘love’.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
My question is what is your answer to St. Peter?
I sinned 3,352,247 times
But I did good 3,352,250 different things and I was given last rites, so I think I should go in?

.
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Interesting question. I remember when I was a child, I asked my aunt (who was raised Methodist) how we get to heaven. She said that God kept a record of our good and bad deeds, and whatever we had the most of when we died determined where we went. Funny I’ve *never *seen that in Catholic teaching-- we’re saved by grace, through faith, that works by love (Galatians 5:6, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 3:21-24,4:16-17)
 
TE, that is interesting…about faith and love. Thanks for pointing that out. 👍 We are saved (by faith alone I believe) but faith always produces love.

I do think that Jesus was talking to the merely “religious” people as anyone who truly belongs to Him is going to love others. The Holy Spirit puts God’s love into people’s hearts. Jesus is reinforcing the rest of Scripture…that a true Christian will have love for others.

Remember though, that that verse you mentioned about faith, hope and love; though love is the greatest, it also talks about faith and hope passing away because we will already be with Jesus…but love lasts forever. God bless you.
 
I think St. Rose of Lima put it pretty well (quoted in the Catechism) : “The cross is the only ladder by which we may ascend to heaven.”
 
myfavoritmartin said:
As a protestant when I am at the pearly gate speaking with St. Peter;) , and he says’ why should I let you in?

I can confidently say I am with HIM! pointing to Christ…
and my faith has saved me.

My question is what is your answer to St. Peter?
I sinned 3,352,247 times
But I did good 3,352,250 different things and I was given last rites, so I think I should go in?

Is this putting the differences of our prospective beliefs to simple?

Am I missing something? when I think of things in this manner I can’t help but relate to Gal 2:21.
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Hello Myfavoritemartin! Your question is based on an incorrect perceprtion of Catholic soteriology. A Catholic can point to Christ and say I’m with him. But the Bible says that we will be judged according to our works. So God will most certainly judge whether I put my money where my mouth is.

God Bless,
Michael
 
hoosierdaddy said:
TE, that is interesting…about faith and love. Thanks for pointing that out. 👍 We are saved (by faith alone I believe) but faith always produces love.

I do think that Jesus was talking to the merely “religious” people as anyone who truly belongs to Him is going to love others. The Holy Spirit puts God’s love into people’s hearts. Jesus is reinforcing the rest of Scripture…that a true Christian will have love for others.

Remember though, that that verse you mentioned about faith, hope and love; though love is the greatest, it also talks about faith and hope passing away because we will already be with Jesus…but love lasts forever. God bless you.
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Faith does not automatically produce love. Love is a word of action and hence depends on effort, an act of the will.

2 Peter 1:5-9

**5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. **

1 Corinthians 13:2

2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
 
But the Bible says that we will be judged according to our works. So God will most certainly judge whether I put my money where my mouth is.
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But a Christian’s works will be judged, not the Christian. The Christian will not go to hell. He will be rewarded or suffer loss of rewards on the basis of his works but since he is a Christian, he will not go to hell. I’d rather put my money where God’s mouth is, and that’s in His Word. The Holy Bible. 👍
 
But still…love is a fruit of the Spirit. It takes the Holy Spirit to produce it in you. Sinful man does not have it in his capacity to love in the way God wills. Faith produces love.
 
hoosierdaddy said:
Seamus>>One must love God!!! Then one will believe Him and His Son.

Actually faith comes before love. We are saved by faith, not by loving God. Loving God comes as we grow in relationship with Him.
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Thank you for you suggestion…

Where in the Bible is this taught?

I am using Jesus’ teaching: The first two commandments are of love. This is how I understand His teaching and then St. Paul: Love is the greatest.

Also: Love gives “energeo” to faith.

Also, Love believes all things, from St. Paul, too.

Thank you, and I really mean that.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
As a protestant when I am at the pearly gate speaking with St. Peter;) , and he says’ why should I let you in?

I can confidently say I am with HIM! pointing to Christ…
and my faith has saved me.

My question is what is your answer to St. Peter?
I sinned 3,352,247 times
But I did good 3,352,250 different things and I was given last rites, so I think I should go in?

Is this putting the differences of our prospective beliefs to simple?

Am I missing something? when I think of things in this manner I can’t help but relate to Gal 2:21.
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As others have said, this question is based on a caricature of Catholicism reflecting Pelagianism, which is commonly the way non-catholics attack Catholics, by misrepresenting Catholic belief with a half-truth(lie) then attacking the strawman.

I would encourage the original poster to examine the source of this caricature of Catholicism as this reveals the original premise as based on lies. Which proves the faith system that devised the example as based on lies.

Or it is just a question that is not teaching Catholics anything and just hypothetical, not in any way related to actual Catholic belief, but an example of a common strawman attack.
I would suggest you read this,
allroadsministry.com/Tracts/IsFaithEnough.asp

God Bless
Scylla
 
Jim_Baur said:
Thank you for you suggestion…

Where in the Bible is this taught?

I am using Jesus’ teaching: The first two commandments are of love. This is how I understand His teaching and then St. Paul: Love is the greatest.

Also: Love gives “energeo” to faith.

Also, Love believes all things, from St. Paul, too.

Thank you, and I really mean that.
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Hey Jim, thanks. I am basing my belief on Hebrews 11 where it repeatedly says “by faith…” about each person. Hebrews 11:6 says, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
Hebrews 3 that instructs us to be faithful. There are many other Scripture verses that lead me to believe that faith has to come first. Also, just by sheer logic…I don’t know how one can love God if one lacks faith that God exists. I hope I was more clear now. God bless.
 
hoosierdaddy

If faith is first, please let me see the passages.

Thank you.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
"As a protestant when I am at the pearly gate speaking with St. Peter;) , and he says’ why should I let you in?:

Well, since we do not know who goes to heaven or not, I’ll leave that up to Jesus to decide.

“I can confidently say I am with HIM! pointing to Christ…
and my faith has saved me”

we do not know who will be saved or not. We can live the best Christian life we can, and the rest is up to Jesus. We hope that our names are written in the Book of Life. I hope my faith has saved me indeed.

“My question is what is your answer to St. Peter?
I sinned 3,352,247 times But I did good 3,352,250 different things and I was given last rites, so I think I should go in?”

We all sin, and we all fall short of the glory of God.

“Is this putting the differences of our prospective beliefs to simple?”

I don’t know. perhaps, perhaps not.
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Tantum_ergo said:
This is not directed at you personally, martin, but I seem to recall a passage in Scripture where Jesus separated people into the “sheep” and the “goats”. And He told the goats to begone. But they said, “Lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name and prophesied in your name”; but He tells them, "Away from me, you evildoers. For I was hungry, and you gave me no food; thirsty and you gave me no drink; naked and you did not clothe me; sick and in prison and you did not visit me…
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Hello Tantum ergo,

I agree with you. Many will come to the pearly gates crying out LORD, LORD but it will only be those who have done as Christ commanded they do, caring for the poor and keeping God’s commandments, who will enter into heaven through Jesus.
NAB MAT 7:21

“None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, **‘Lord, Lord,’ have we not prophesied in your name? have we not exorcized demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well? Then I will declare to them solemnly, I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!”
**“Anyone who hears my words and puts them into practice is like the wise man who built his house on rock. When the rainy season set in, the torrents came and the winds blew and buffeted his house, It did not collapse; it had been solidly set on rock. Anyone who hears my words but does not put them into practice is like the foolish man who built his house on sandy ground. The rains fell, the torrents came, the winds blew and lashed against his house. It collapsed under all this and was completely ruined.”
NAB 1JO 2:3

The way we can be sure of our knowledge of him is to keep his commandments, The man who claims, “I have known him,” without keeping his commandments, is a liar, in such a one there is no truth.**NAB LUK 13:23 **

Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ He will say to you in reply, 'I do not know where you are from.’ And you will say, 'We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’ Then he will say to you, ‘I do not know where (you) are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’ And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.
NAB ROM 2:6

. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. Yes, affliction and anguish will come upon every man who has done evil, the Jew first then the Greek. But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who has done good, likewise the Jew first, then the Greek.NAB JAM 2:14

My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith has no power to save one, has it? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day, and you say to them, “Good-bye and good luck! Keep warm and well fed,” but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that? so it is with the faith that does nothing in practice. It is thoroughly lifeless.
To such a person one might say, You have faith and I have works is that it? Show me your faith without works, and I will show you the faith that underlies my works! Do you believe that God is one? you are quite right. The demons believe that, and shudder.
 
hoosierdaddy

I am a student of the Bible.

I am not a scholar.

I would love to see the passages that teach FAITH is first, that is, faith is first and love is not.

Thank you!!!
 
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