A pep talk for single guys

[MarcoPolo]

a guy CAN do all of the right things and still not win.

Why?

For starters, “some women just are not looking for a relationship,” as one dating coach put it.

And it can them a little while to figure out they are not ready for a serious relationship.

Whatever the reason, your point is the same as mine–––doing all the “right things” should not be seen as some kind of panacea. It can improve your chances to be fun and genuine and all that, but at the end of the day, to give a sports analogy, even some of the best players never win a championship. Articles like the one cited in the OP should just be careful not to delude single guys into thinking they are doing something “wrong” and if they only did X and Y and Z, well then it would rain candy bars.

 

[Xantippe]

Now that I’m on a real computer I can post a longer answer.

This is a big one. I’ve noticed that all too often guys (and in situations where women are pursuing, often times women) will be friends with someone of the opposite sex with the ulterior motive of a romantic relationship. When they find out that the person isn’t interested, they lose all interest in the friendship.

As someone who has always had male friends, that behavior hurts. It really sucks to feel like you have a good friend, only to find out that as soon as they realize that you aren’t sexually and/or romantically interested in them, they walk away. That’s how you know that someone is only interested in what they can get from you, and that they never really cared for who you are as a person. And people usually get entitled about this. It’s like, “I did nice. I talked to her, listened, shared interests, and had fun with her. Now I deserve a relationship. Oh, I won’t get that? Well, then, who needs her?” is just not an attitude that makes people feel good. And if you want to look at it in purely selfish terms, it can even backfire.

For example-a couple of years ago I worked in an office building that had a security guard in the lobby. Over the course of a few months, we became buddies. We talked about the books we were reading, said hi to each other every morning, and complained about our bosses. I thought he was a really nice guy. One day, he asked me out. I said that I was sorry if he got the wrong idea, but I was engaged and not interested. He totally understood and continued to talk to me every day as though nothing had happened with no ulterior motive. In short, he showed me that he was genuine and that romance and sex aside, he was interested in relating to me as a person.

A few months later, a really sweet, cute girl started working in my office. After getting to know her a bit, I thought she might have fun with the security guard, and I put in a good word with her for him. Women trust other women, and we tend to listen when another woman vouches for a man-especially when he already seems so nice. She took my word for it, and showed a little interest. He asked her out, and 2 years later, they’re engaged. If he had blown me off after I said I was engaged, he wouldn’t be getting married right now because I would have told that girl that he was only a nice guy if he thought he could get something from a woman. But instead, I talked him up.

Think of it like networking. Even if the person you give your business card to never buys from you, they may recommend you to someone who will if they like you and if you make it clear that you are a competent professional. It’s the same thing with dating. Even if the girl you asked out doesn’t say yes, she may recommend you to someone who would be a good match for you if you show her that you’re a man who’s worth it.

And even though we no longer even live in the same state, the four of us are good friends and I can’t wait to fly out for their wedding in November.

Awww. That’s so sweet!

 

[Xantippe]

Whatever the reason, your point is the same as mine–––doing all the “right things” should not be seen as some kind of panacea. It can improve your chances to be fun and genuine and all that, but at the end of the day, to give a sports analogy, even some of the best players never win a championship. Articles like the one cited in the OP should just be careful not to delude single guys into thinking they are doing something “wrong” and if they only did X and Y and Z, well then it would rain candy bars.

There do seem to be a lot of guys who do nothing and STILL are all twisted up inside over the fact that it isn’t raining candy bars. That’s who the original post was aimed at.

 

[MarcoPolo]

There do seem to be a lot of guys who do nothing and STILL are all twisted up inside over the fact that it isn’t raining candy bars. That’s who the original post was aimed at.

Gotcha.

 

[Estevao]

 

[Xantippe]

http://i60.tinypic.com/nwfncz.jpg

Funny!

 

[Estevao]

1. I don’t notice any huge gender division with regard to phones (and I live near a very large college campus). Among the student body, everybody is on their phone, even while doing stuff like biking down the street. In my own middle aged peer group (40+), I think it’s actually more of a guy thing–or at least it’s more intensely a guy thing. My husband is definitely attached to his phone (does work emails at all hours–there’s always something or someone blowing up that needs attention) and he has a colleague who, I think, would totally go for a surgical iphone implant. In today’s white collar world, the smartphone is like a big umbilical cord tethering you to work.
2. The social science suggests that if anything, social media has a negative effect on one’s personal life. If you google “Facebook envy,” “Facebook depression,” “Facebook sadness,” “Instagram envy,” etc. you’ll find that paradoxically, the more connected one is, the more alienated one is, because one is so often in the position of pressing one’s nose against the window of other people’s (apparent!) happiness–hearing about purchases, vacations, meals, parties or relationships that one is unable to enjoy.
3. I’m addressing the single guys who want to find somebody. If they don’t want to find anybody, that’s totally fine, but if they do want to find somebody, then Matt Walsh’s advice is excellent. Some of us older married CAF folk have really had it up to here with single posters who complain of loneliness, repeatedly ask for advice, and then find a million reasons not to do anything differently than they are doing now. It’s really annoying.

Why do you think there are so many single 20-something guys around these days? Do you think that technology has created a generation of men with impared social skills? I mean there’s a significant number of 20+ guys who have never had a girlfriend, and I don’t think that existed except for unique cases in the past generations (having asked my older male relatives)

Usually I was inclined to blame feminism turning women into independent folks unwilling to settle down and emasculating men, but the more I think about it, I think it’s the internet/TV/video games. Maybe social media has also raised women’s standards, and that’s why you have so many men working out at the gym to get buff these days, whereas in the 50s to the 70s it was rather rare that a man would lift weights.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

There are a fair number of women who like the attention they get from guys who orbit them in the vain hope of a relationship when she’s only interested in the attention. I was that guy once. Pathetic is about the most generous thing I can say about those days. I’m not that guy anymore, when I hear “no” or “I’m not interested” from a girl, that’s it, I cut her loose mentally and move on.

That said, there are women for whom I have no attraction at all and usually she knows it and is okay with that. Often they are coworkers. These women I’m okay having casual friendships with. But when a woman comes along to whom I’m attracted, I can’t be just friends with her, my attraction will always get in the way and I know that about myself. Since I refuse to do unrequited attraction anymore, I have to step away.

 

[Xantippe]

Why do you think there are so many single 20-something guys around these days?

**In our area (it being a super Baptist area) there’s a lot of marriage right after college. I actually have some qualms about that, because I prefer to see people working and living independently at least a year before getting married.

But I definitely believe there should be more dating in college. **

Do you think that technology has created a generation of men with impared social skills?

**Possibly. But there wasn’t really any dating when I was in college 20 years ago, and there weren’t gadgets at the time–no iphones, no ipads, no laptops, no nothing. People did have desktops, but that was it. A pager was a big deal 20 years ago. **

I mean there’s a significant number of 20+ guys who have never had a girlfriend, and I don’t think that existed except for unique cases in the past generations (having asked my older male relatives)

**20 years ago, when I was in college, I knew only a handful of couples and then a bunch of people with long-distance boyfriends. There was no dating.

And yes, it was terrible. At the time, though, I thought it was just me who was hideously unlovable. It was only years later that I started connecting the dots and realizing that almost nobody else had a boyfriend either, and there wasn’t any casual dating going on that I could see. **

Usually I was inclined to blame feminism turning women into independent folks unwilling to settle down and emasculating men, but the more I think about it, I think it’s the internet/TV/video games. Maybe social media has also raised women’s standards, and that’s why you have so many men working out at the gym to get buff these days, whereas in the 50s to the 70s it was rather rare that a man would lift weights.

Eh, I think that weight lifting is actually mostly a thing that guys do to impress guys. I realize that it might genuinely improve posture and confidence and so forth (which is really important), but honestly, I don’t think women care that much about freakishly well-defined muscles with veins popping out all over (blech!). It’s just like you probably don’t care at all about manicures and pedicures (and if anything find it kind of disgusting)–that’s not really something that women do for men.

 

[CatholicWhovian]

As for his advice, the whole “man up” thing has been preached for years now, yet men keep preferring video games and internet porn or cheap sex. Maybe something else is the reason, like the anti-male education system and “momism” as another poster said.

Look, his advice will work for finding those women whose biological clocks are ticking and have wised up on the dating scene. I encourage following it.

Alright then.

Here’s my theory–everything is so easy and highly-stimulating today (one click Amazon, 80 Netflix episodes of your favorite show, Facebook, video games…) that in-real-life interpersonal relationships relatively hard and unrewarding that people don’t bother with them. And then they wonder why they’re lonely and miserable…

Hey! You guys take that back!

I’m a self-professed lover of video games and believe me when I say that it’s been a goal in my life to “man-up” and become a real man; and that I’ve had many real-life interpersonal relationships in my life. Although I have to admit I have never had a girlfriend. However I’m currently in college and would want to focus on my studies because it’s what’s most important for me at the moment.

Just because someone is secluded in his home just to play Call of Duty doesn’t mean he has the potential to have a meaningful and fulfilling relationship.

 

[Xantippe]

Hey! You guys take that back!

I’m a self-professed lover of video games and believe me when I say that it’s been a goal in my life to “man-up” and become a real man; and that I’ve had many real-life interpersonal relationships in my life. Although I have to admit I have never had a girlfriend. However I’m currently in college and would want to focus on my studies because it’s what’s most important for me at the moment.

Just because someone is secluded in his home just to play Call of Duty doesn’t mean he has the potential to have a meaningful and fulfilling relationship.

Nobody is doubting the potential–it’s just that if you are at home playing Call of Duty, you’re not out there talking to girls.

 

[CatholicWhovian]

Nobody is doubting the potential–it’s just that if you are at home playing Call of Duty, you’re not out there talking to girls.

Yeah, but it wouldn’t hurt to play Call of Duty just for an hour or two, right?

Another thing that popped into my mind: does it matter if you’re an extrovert or an introvert when it comes to talking to women? I’m an introvert myself but, like what I’ve said, I’ve made many real-life interpersonal relationships with other people. I would prefer to be secluded and alone reading a book than talking to people in a large group and making a scene in a party. Heck I have a hard time talking to girls yet I’ve had girls who I have been close to.

So is it the matter of changing technology or is it the matter of the individual’s personality that prevents men from “manning up”? I feel that some of you are pointing towards preferring a solitary lifestyle as an obstacle towards becoming a gentleman. A extroverted guy can talk to girls and be an expert on it while having a warped notion of “manning up”.

 

[pensmama87]

Yeah, but it wouldn’t hurt to play Call of Duty just for an hour or two, right?

Another thing that popped into my mind: does it matter if you’re an extrovert or an introvert when it comes to talking to women? I’m an introvert myself but, like what I’ve said, I’ve made many real-life interpersonal relationships with other people. I would prefer to be secluded and alone reading a book than talking to people in a large group and making a scene in a party. Heck I have a hard time talking to girls yet I’ve had girls who I have been close to.

So is it the matter of changing technology or is it the matter of the individual’s personality that prevents men from “manning up”? I feel that some of you are pointing towards preferring a solitary lifestyle as an obstacle towards becoming a gentleman. A extroverted guy can talk to girls and be an expert on it while having a warped notion of “manning up”.

I’m a woman and an introvert, but I don’t think being introverted is a barrier to having a fulfilling social life regardless of gender. “Introvert” is not synonymous with “shy” or “socially awkward” or “has no friends.” I value my alone time and it gives me time to recharge. I love being with my friends (and spouse and children) but I find it tiring. My husband, who is an extravert, loves being around other people (it revs him up). He gets bored being alone. Neither one is bad, but they are different and have their own challenges. Sometimes I wish he was more like me, but we are starting (four years into married life) to get each other.

 

[Xantippe]

Yeah, but it wouldn’t hurt to play Call of Duty just for an hour or two, right?

**Right!

That reminds me. There’s a really funny web TV show called “The Guild.” In one of the later episodes, one of the male guild members falls deeply in love with an in-game character.**

Another thing that popped into my mind: does it matter if you’re an extrovert or an introvert when it comes to talking to women? I’m an introvert myself but, like what I’ve said, I’ve made many real-life interpersonal relationships with other people. I would prefer to be secluded and alone reading a book than talking to people in a large group and making a scene in a party. Heck I have a hard time talking to girls yet I’ve had girls who I have been close to.

There are introvert girls, too, but both parties will have to put down the books, leave home, and talk to people in order to make friends in order to…talk about books. Of course, people do also meet through blogs and meet ups run through blogs, not to mention online dating, so it is possible to start via the electronic medium. There’s a major blogger who married one of her commenters, which is very sweet!

So is it the matter of changing technology or is it the matter of the individual’s personality that prevents men from “manning up”? I feel that some of you are pointing towards preferring a solitary lifestyle as an obstacle towards becoming a gentleman. A extroverted guy can talk to girls and be an expert on it while having a warped notion of “manning up”.

Right.

In any case, there’s a need to invest time and to make an effort socially, to allow oneself to be coaxed out of one’s shell and to coax others out, too. If two parties (who are perfect for each other in every way) are hanging back expecting others to seek them out and beguile them, they’re never going to meet or have a conversation (no matter how much they have in common).

 

[Xantippe]

I’m a woman and an introvert, but I don’t think being introverted is a barrier to having a fulfilling social life regardless of gender. “Introvert” is not synonymous with “shy” or “socially awkward” or “has no friends.” I value my alone time and it gives me time to recharge. I love being with my friends (and spouse and children) but I find it tiring.

Yes!

Here’s an old web classic on the subject of introverts:

theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/302696/

 

[CatholicWhovian]

I’m a woman and an introvert, but I don’t think being introverted is a barrier to having a fulfilling social life regardless of gender. “Introvert” is not synonymous with “shy” or “socially awkward” or “has no friends.” I value my alone time and it gives me time to recharge. I love being with my friends (and spouse and children) but I find it tiring. My husband, who is an extravert, loves being around other people (it revs him up). He gets bored being alone. Neither one is bad, but they are different and have their own challenges. Sometimes I wish he was more like me, but we are starting (four years into married life) to get each other.

Right.

In any case, there’s a need to invest time and to make an effort socially, to allow oneself to be coaxed out of one’s shell and to coax others out, too. If two parties (who are perfect for each other in every way) are hanging back expecting others to seek them out and beguile them, they’re never going to meet or have a conversation (no matter how much they have in common).

You guys have good points there.

It’s actually a relief to hear such advice from you guys with regards to introverts. It’s just that I live in a society where being introverted is considered a bad trait to have, and is synonymous with “shy” or “socially awkward” or “has no friends.” In fact introverts like me where I come from are stereotyped as anti-social even though we’re not anti-social at all. Sometimes I feel some people avoid me because I’m an introvert and I sometimes don’t feel comfortable talking or hanging out with groups of people.

 

[Xantippe]

You guys have good points there.

It’s actually a relief to hear such advice from you guys with regards to introverts. It’s just that I live in a society where being introverted is considered a bad trait to have, and is synonymous with “shy” or “socially awkward” or “has no friends.” In fact introverts like me where I come from are stereotyped as anti-social even though we’re not anti-social at all. Sometimes I feel some people avoid me because I’m an introvert and I sometimes don’t feel comfortable talking or hanging out with groups of people.

Have you considered non-Filipinas?

 

[Groo]

I was just reading the following piece by Matt Walsh:

themattwalshblog.com/2014/06/19/dear-single-men-time-man-figure/

“If you’re hanging out with a woman and you feel like you might be into her, tell her. Call her on the phone. Take her out on a date. Say the words: “I’d like to take you out.” No ambiguity. Plan the date yourself. Women want you to be decisive. Lose the whole “so waddaya wanna do tonight?” schtick. Take charge. Pick her up at 7. Pay for the meal. Have a conversation with her. Go mini golfing or something. Go somewhere. Open the door for her. Put your phone away. Open up to her. Share your ideas, your dreams, your fears. Get to know her. Pursue her. Pursue her. Invest yourself in the process, as scary and unsure as it may seem. Take a risk, gentlemen. Go out on a limb for once. Be purposeful. Be desirable. Be a man.”

Much of what Matt says here is good advice. Casually hanging out when you want to be more than friends isn’t going to get you anywhere; and it’s somewhat dishonest to boot. I think women respect men who are direct and confident. Even men who just want sex, if they ask for what they want, that can be far more attractive than a man who casually hangs around hoping to get lucky.

Taking charge and planning an outing is also good advice. Don’t just meet up somewhere and ask her what she wants to do. That’s really wimpy if you want a romantic relationship (though it’s ok if you just want friendship).

Matt is also right about good manners; opening the door for her; putting the phone away. That demonstrates caring and respect.

Where I think his advice can be misused at best is when he suggests to pursue pursue. Men can easily pursue too fast for comfort. In attempting to put their best foot forward, pursuing can come across as pushy and needy.

Along those same lines, sharing ideas, dreams, and fears is fine with a girlfriend of 6 months or more; but it’s not so smart on the second date. That may seem obvious; but I suspect many men unwittingly move too fast by sharing too much too soon. I know that was part of my problem when I was younger. The hopes, dreams, and fears will all come out naturally in the course of a relationship. There is no need to lay all of that out before its time.

Finally, the whole “man-up” premise is condescending. It implies that he is a man and the single male reader is not. I think the phrase “man-up” should be banished from every man’s lexicon.

 

[Thorns]

I hear what you’re saying…but honestly. I spent a lot of time without a date in college. I had guy casual friends, but no dates. Then, when I got engaged shortly after graduation…guys who were previously SO adamant they only wanted to be friends suddenly wanted to go out. Wanted to “see if there was chemistry”. What?
Something about a woman who is taken is attractive to guys. I don’t get it. Or maybe it’s that they can practice all their flirting on you now that they know you won’t take them up on any of it.
Is that it??? No threat of having to “perform” as it were? You know, make pleasant conversation, pretend to be interested in what you do, go to plays or other social functions?

Some guys are simply scumbags and feel like making it a personal challenge to themselves to see if they can take another guy’s girlfriend, fiance, or wife away from them.

 

[Xantippe]

Some guys are simply scumbags and feel like making it a personal challenge to themselves to see if they can take another guy’s girlfriend, fiance, or wife away from them.

I think some people don’t have much imagination, so they can’t see an unattached person as relationship material.