A pregnant man?

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Transsexuals spent four or five decades trying that, and it just never seemed to take. So, the idea is to now make ‘freak’ acceptable, since they don’t seem willing to let us discard the label.
Yes, it must be crushing and infuriating to face many legal hurdles on things most of us take for granted such as birth certificates which match our sex and a marriage that outsiders can’t overturn in court. But I do wonder if it is a strategic mistake for transsexuals to challenge the gender binary.

The idea of man and woman being discrete categories is a bedrock which probably all of us are raised. It is a foundation on which much of our worldview is based. Although a case can be made for male and female being a spectrum, it is a radical idea which most people will reject.

I worry that transsexuals will lose what ground they have gained by advocating a position which is well outside the mainstream. I respect the Beatie’s desire to have a child and am happy for them. But I wonder if it may have been better to avoid the limelight.
 
Again–this isn’t talking about hermaphrodites, people born with sex organs from both genders.
Gender as I learned it meant brain behavior. It really had nothing to do with physical sex or genitalia. Maybe today we can call a homosexual a homogender and a heterosexual a heterogender? Silly as I see it or maybe I just am getting old and not hip. 😛

I know some have elected to mix and match the two but it does lead to confusion especially when talking about transgender, (a person more often than not who moves in and out of gender moods and/or urges) and transsexual, (someone who has had or desires to have sex reassignment), two much different terms. 😦

And using the term hermaphrodite is a no no… the correct term today is ‘Intersex’. 😉

Lynn-D
 
I think Beatie may have further hurt the “transexual cause.” I would be interested if other transexuals appreciate what he (she) is doing or resent it. It makes it a bit less believable for others that she (he) has always desired to be a man, when he (she) decides to have a baby. 🤷

I think the couple’s action may actually make things worse for transexuals in society.
I agree with you Robert. I don’t think Beatie is a transsexual in the legitimate meaning of that term. I think he is a transgender/ lesbian. And the co-mixing of terms is what might hurt the real transsexuals. :confused:

Most transsexuals want to be rid of their birth sex identity so I wonder why this person who only had hormones and breast removal would ever be considered as having had a ‘sex change’ in the first place? 🤷

Lynn-D
 
I guess this is terrible of me, but this subject is so nauseating I thought maybe a joke would be in order.

Question: Why are there so many more male to female sex change operations than there are female to male operations?

Answer: Because so few females survive the part of female to male surgery where the doctors take half their brains out.
Ridge, I think maybe not possible to give the female to males the one third brain function that men seem to have below their waist. 😛

Lynn-D
 
The fact that woman calls herslef a man does not prove that male and female are not black and white. iI thought that transexuals wanted acceptance-that they didnt want to be viewed as “freaks”. Do you think this womans charade helps the cause?
NO BOB, this woman has not helped the transsexual cause one iota. In fact I believe she has hurt others by her linkage to them. But as I see it she is basically a lesbian/transgender. In the minds of many she is simply declaring that she is a male when in fact she is a female who was allowed to ‘legally’ change her documentation from female to male. That without surgery is a travesty to begin with but is allowed in some countries and even some states in the U.S. :cool:
 
It’s truly sad that this woman presents herself as a “man”, and our media treats her as if she actually were a man.
 
Did you actually watch the Oprah show? He doesn’t necessarily believe himself to be a man. He took on a masculine identity because out of chosing ‘boy’ or ‘girl’ he was most comfortable with the male role.
I actually did watch the show. She did say she was a “man” now. Just without having the penis implant. She took hormones to make her body grow facial hair and it made other parts grow.
My question again is:

IF (according to the quoted part) she doesn’t “really” consider herself a man, HOW are they legally married? Because Oprah stated, and I paraphrase “Now that you are a man, you are legally married to your wife?” And Tracey/Thomas said “Yes”
 
I worry that transsexuals will lose what ground they have gained by advocating a position which is well outside the mainstream. I respect the Beatie’s desire to have a child and am happy for them. But I wonder if it may have been better to avoid the limelight.
I would question whether or not there is any ground to lose, really. The problem is that transsexuality is often attacked by both sides. Believe it or not the GLBT is extremely fractured, there is no solid one agenda. Transsexuals are outcast from it just as often as anywhere else. This isn’t talked about much because it isn’t very PC, but that doesn’t change it from being reality.

See, much of the old guard of the gay groups (Barney Frank for example) despise transsexuals. Gay men view male to females as traitors, mutilated gay men that ‘ran away’ from being gay, and view female to males as invaders of their boys club. Lesbians will view male to females as ‘raping womanhood’ and treading on the sacred ground of femaleness and resent those female to males that give up that sacred womanhood to become part of the oppressive patriarchy. There is a huge division in the ‘gay agenda’ between the young and old generations (The line isn’t exactly this, but it just seems to trend that way) and it’ll get pretty obvious in the coming years.

Most people take it for granted they won’t be fired for being Catholic anymore, but it wasn’t that long ago that it did occur regularly. I am a good worker, and even the jobs that fire me often admitted to such before the termination. Why, on one occasion I was the employee of the month, and then terminated once my past was discovered the very next. However, they have every right to fire me for it as federal law stands.

And as for Beatie’s limelighting. Some people just love the limelight, whether or not it is GOOD coverage. Fame is fame. Some people are just hams! 😉
 
I actually did watch the show. She did say she was a “man” now. Just without having the penis implant. She took hormones to make her body grow facial hair and it made other parts grow.
My question again is:

IF (according to the quoted part) she doesn’t “really” consider herself a man, HOW are they legally married? Because Oprah stated, and I paraphrase “Now that you are a man, you are legally married to your wife?” And Tracey/Thomas said “Yes”
Due to the oddity of transsexuals being somewhat recognized in some states, and not in others, it’s possible for them to marry in ways that would visually seem to violate marriage laws.

For example, I was born in a state that forbids birth certificate modification. I cannot marry a man, ever, despite my intersexism and despite my transsexuality. However I could legally marry a woman and have a visually lesbian marriage, but it would be completely legal because my birth certificate will always say male.
 
My question again is:
IF (according to the quoted part) she doesn’t “really” consider herself a man, HOW are they legally married? Because Oprah stated, and I paraphrase “Now that you are a man, you are legally married to your wife?” And Tracey/Thomas said “Yes”
It seems that in 2004 marriage licenses were issued to same sex couples but now according to the Oregon marriage law requirements that is no longer the case.
weddingvendors.com/marriage-license-laws/united-states/oregon/

Maybe someone living in Oregon can explain to this forum how the ambiguity in their State Constitution was resolved? :confused:

Beatie might have been legally married to a woman even in another state such as Massachusetts or might have been one of the few couples that did marry in Oregon in 2004 and the marriage was never invalidated.

To get one’s name changed is rather easy in most states.
Yes, most states will change the baptismal certificate for an Intersex and even a transsexual AFTER corrective surgery but not before.

One fact: Tracy will be listed on the birth certificate as the MOTHER of her baby and not the father no matter what name she calls herself. 🤷

Lynn-D
 
People are so bored nowadays, they have nothing better to do, so they want to create ‘new social, political and religious unknowns’ nice…

Yea…we’ve ‘known’ it was wrong for a while. Wonder how the legal records will look.
 
It seems that in 2004 marriage licenses were issued to same sex couples but now according to the Oregon marriage law requirements that is no longer the case.
weddingvendors.com/marriage-license-laws/united-states/oregon/

Maybe someone living in Oregon can explain to this forum how the ambiguity in their State Constitution was resolved? :confused:

Beatie might have been legally married to a woman even in another state such as Massachusetts or might have been one of the few couples that did marry in Oregon in 2004 and the marriage was never invalidated.

To get one’s name changed is rather easy in most states.
Yes, most states will change the baptismal certificate for an Intersex and even a transsexual AFTER corrective surgery but not before.

One fact: Tracy will be listed on the birth certificate as the MOTHER of her baby and not the father no matter what name she calls herself. 🤷

Lynn-D
Basically, the Multnomah county clerk decided to illegally issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. This practice was halted by court order, and later an amendment was passed prohibiting it constitutionally–got rid of the ambiguous language.

We now have a law allowing “civil unions” for such people.
 
Most transsexuals want to be rid of their birth sex identity so I wonder why this person who only had hormones and breast removal would ever be considered as having had a ‘sex change’ in the first place? 🤷

Lynn-D
The surgical options for female to male’s are crude, nonfunctioning, no sensation and generally speaking just don’t work, and aren’t pleasant to look like. Frequent complications, infections and complete rejections (ie it falls off!) They often look nothing like actual male genitalia.

Most never bother with it because it’s essentially pointless to them in some eyes, oh and it costs anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 and insurance obviously doesn’t cover it.
 
The surgical options for female to male’s are crude, nonfunctioning, no sensation and generally speaking just don’t work, and aren’t pleasant to look like. Frequent complications, infections and complete rejections (ie it falls off!) They often look nothing like actual male genitalia.
Yes, I have read that phalloplasty leaves a lot to be desired. But it is possible to remove the uterus and ovaries without trying to construct a penis - many women who aren’t transsexual have this surgery.

It may well be advisable for a female to male transsexual to have those items removed. Doing so allows a lower dose of testosterone to be taken (high doses of hormones for long periods of time may have long term health risks). It also would eliminate the need to have regular Pap smears (getting those may be difficult as a man, and embarassing to him or his medical provider). And it would eliminate the worries of developing symptoms of polycystic ovaries (which may be related to testosterone treatment)

On the Oprah show, Thomas mentioned that he specifically chose not to have his uterus and ovaries removed with the intention of bearing children at some point in the future. This is something he planned even before he met his wife, so I don’t think the problems of phalloplasty (which are very real) were the determining factor in his decision to keep his ovaries and uterus. Thomas was choosing to step away from the gender binary, which I think is what puzzled Lynn-D. (If am wrong, please correct me!)
 
Yes, I have read that phalloplasty leaves a lot to be desired. But it is possible to remove the uterus and ovaries without trying to construct a penis - many women who aren’t transsexual have this surgery.

It may well be advisable for an FTM (female to male) transsexual to have those items removed. Doing so allows a lower dose of testosterone to be taken (high doses of hormones for long periods of time may have long term health risks). It also would eliminate the need to have regular Pap smears (getting those may be difficult as a man, and embarassing to him or his medical provider). And it would eliminate the worries of developing symptoms of polycystic ovaries (which may be related to testosterone treatment)

On the Oprah show, Thomas mentioned that he specifically chose not to have his uterus and ovaries removed with the intention of bearing children at some point in the future. This is something he planned even before he met his wife, so I don’t think the problems of phalloplasty (which are very real) were the determining factor in his decision to keep his ovaries and uterus. Thomas was choosing to step away from the gender binary, which I think is what puzzled Lynn-D. (If am wrong, please correct me!)
My mother died of ovarian cancer only two months ago. After she had had everything removed, uterus, ovaries. Everything was removed over a DECADE before the cancer showed up. Part of the problem in figuring out what was wrong with her was because everything was gone.

Just because the organs are removed does not in the slightest remove the chance of cancer. It is a myth that it removes the chance of cancer. It completely complicates the diagnosis process of it as well, just because my mother’s ovaries were gone doesn’t mean there weren’t stray cells laying around. Those are what eventually cancerous, over ten years after her complete hysterectomy and oophorectomy.

This has led me to be quite horrified, because I have no idea what kind of tissue I have, and what kind of tissue I had removed when I was younger. There is no telling what kinds of cancer I could possibly get.
 
It seems that in 2004 marriage licenses were issued to same sex couples but now according to the
To get one’s name changed is rather easy in most states.
Yes, most states will change the baptismal certificate for an Intersex and even a transsexual AFTER corrective surgery but not before.

Lynn-D
I did not mean ‘baptismal certificate’. What I meant to say was ‘BIRTH CERTIFICATE’. Sorry for the error! 😊

Lynn-D
 
The surgical options for female to male’s are crude, nonfunctioning, no sensation and generally speaking just don’t work, and aren’t pleasant to look like. Frequent complications, infections and complete rejections (ie it falls off!) They often look nothing like actual male genitalia.

Most never bother with it because it’s essentially pointless to them in some eyes, oh and it costs anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 and insurance obviously doesn’t cover it.
Then why have it?

Could this perhaps be seen as running from your cross?
 
Then why have it?

Could this perhaps be seen as running from your cross?
Very few transsexuals remain catholic as far as I can tell, most feel outcast and shunned. I myself label myself as ‘lapsed’ because of this, I have yet to find a congregation that welcomes my presence. I am made quite unwelcome wherever I go as soon as my history comes out one way or another. Gossip travels like so much wildfire.

All that said, I don’t see Beattie thinking of crosses very much.
 
Very few transsexuals remain catholic as far as I can tell, most feel outcast and shunned.
All that said, I don’t see Beattie thinking of crosses very much.
Clearly Beatie did not ‘cross’ anything and the last thing she might be thinking of is the suffering on the cross or the suffering of others and the heavy cross they might be bearing. :mad:

She is simply a woman who took male hormones for a period of time and thereby grew a beard and then had her breasts removed before reverting back to the fertile woman she was before. She is not a he since she never did ‘change sex’. She is woman who is going to have a baby. It is that simple for me to understand so why the rantings of media types that this is a pregnant male…‘a miracle’? :confused:

The bible has a direct correlation to the abomination/sin/forbidden acts in regard to homosexuality and cross-dressing which I, not being a theologian, must assume cross-dressing for the purpose of sex being the sin. There is nothing about intersex or transsexuals in the bible except perhaps if one links some of those who are eunuchs as perhaps having been one or the other and took matters onto themselves.

I think what has happened in the Catholic Church and other relgions has to do with the addition of the ‘T’ to the GLB which of course had always before been related to sexual orientation. Now the ‘T’ is meant to include all gender variances and wrongly I believe adds transsexuals under the ‘T’ and now even intersex to its acronym (GLBTI). What does being a heterosexual transvestite/cross-dresser, (which most transgender are), or even someone born with a sexual medical condition such as IS or TS have to really do with sexual orientation is beyond me? OK, someone may be an intersex and/or a transsexual and also be a homosexual but their primary identity prefix should not be that of their medical condition or even their sexual orientation. I am heterosexual but my primary identity is that of a woman who is also a widow, not a ‘widow woman’. That clarifies it for me without being added to another identity such as ‘bingo woman’ or some other secondary interest or behavior. Silly? Of course! :rolleyes:

But the reaction of the church seems clear. It has assumed that since transgender willingly have been included and politically identify to the GLB then they too must relate to homosexuality and accept that identity and/or attachment to homosexuality which most religions consider a sin if practiced. Heck, they kill homosexuals in many of the Muslim countries and allow surgery for intersex and transsexuals in some like Iran.

It is not that the church has turned its back on those who are IS, TS or even homosexuals…it is the mischaracterization of them to a perceived practicing sinful act which is defined in the bible. The confusion in the church is the linkage of those with medical problems to a grouping which seems to define forbidden acts and adds others as if they too are in accord with those acts.

My two cents: if a **practicing **homosexual then you are committing a sinful act. If an intersex or transsexual who firmly believes that they must seek medical correction then that should not be anything but a correction of the body to the whole as stated by Pope Paul VI in a letter to a practicing Catholic California surgeon in answer to his query back in the '70’s.

The Catholic Church at one time allowed the amendment of baptismal certificates for those who had corrective surgery. But since the rise of the transgender confusion it has been given cause to halt that practice. To many like Beatie I suspect appear much closer to the transgender perspective than to either the intersex and/or the real transsexuals and that needs clarification if the understanding of either the IS or the TS is ever again addressed favorably within the Catholic Church. I suspect the damage is already done and the Beatie’s of this world have added to it.

Lynn-D
:signofcross:
 
All I can say, is that when that kid’s older, he’s gonna be massacred in school.
 
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