A pregnant man?

[TShawn]

Estesbob or “prayer warrior”

Please refrain from addressing me any further. I can’t stop you from doing so, but I am closed off to any further posts to you addressed to me. I have read many of your posts, and your words are exactly the type against which I ranted yesterday. I will not rant upon this subject again and I’ll waste no more time here. - and yes, I do defend them for their desire to bring new life into the world. As I may have mentioned, I see it as this man taking advantage of a birth defect. Neither he nor trans- people like me need your approval. I don’t care whether people disagree but they can do so respectfully without all of the ad hominem attacks. To do so would be more Christ like. Don’t you think? (rhetorical question.)

 

[estesbob]

Estesbob or “prayer warrior”

Please refrain from addressing me any further. I can’t stop you from doing so, but I am closed off to any further posts to you addressed to me. I have read many of your posts, and your words are exactly the type against which I ranted yesterday. I will not rant upon this subject again and I’ll waste no more time here. - and yes, I do defend them for their desire to bring new life into the world. As I may have mentioned, I see it as this man taking advantage of a birth defect. Neither he nor trans- people like me need your approval. I don’t care whether people disagree but they can do so respectfully without all of the ad hominem attacks. To do so would be more Christ like. Don’t you think? (rhetorical question.)

I guess that means you wont answer my question as to whether there is anything a transexual can do that you would disagree with.

 

[TShawn]

Jeremiah - I think the topic of marriage is too separate an issue for me to addres here but your concerns and thoughts seem valid to me and you had the kindness to express your views without demeaning or hurtful language to homosexually oriented people. You said I paint with a broad brush. Yes, in my anger I was guilty of lashing out at everyone because I was very deeply hurt and offended by many posts from people who claim to be followers of Christ. I run into this so often it has almost damaged my faith and I have despaired nearly to the point of suicide at one time over it. But by God’s grace, I didn’t give in to that despair and am in the process of healing. But the wounds are still fairly fresh. That was the reason for the rage.

I’m sorry to all for my rage, but my words stand.

LynnD - Thank you for the bottom of my heart for your informative post on Transexualism. I personally believe people like us choose to use the word “Transgender” instead of Transexual because it doesn’t have the suffix “sexual” attached. People seem to get confused and think of the condition as a sexual issue or perversion which it is not. So, it’s easier to just say Transgendered. I have even used this general and vague term myself for that reason.

Estesbob - Sigh!! I’ll answer your last question and that is it. OF COURSE Trans-identified people and intersexed people could do things that would be shameful or embarrassing to me. I don’t support promiscuous sex and a host of other things too! I’m Catholic too you know. I DO believe the teachings of my Church. But when they speak in areas they have no knowlege or experience in, I feel perfectly free to use my God-given conscience! That’s what it’s for.

T-shawn

 

[TShawn]

Householder-

Because this site purports to be a Christian one I would think that people would want to watch over the choice of words they use when speaking about other people because you don’t know who’s reading these post! You never know whose soul may be destroyed by what you say as a representative of Christ.
To answer your question whether FTM’s choose to get pregnant though - NOPE, and HECK NO! Most of us don’t want anything to do with those organs, myself included. However, because of this guy’s situation, I can understand why he’s doing what he is doing. Many guys still have these organs because they can’t afford the surgery to have them removed because insurance won’t cover the surgery because they believe it to be cosmetic only, and the other reason is because the surgery for FTM’s is not perfected and the risks involved are deemed not worth it, and the risks ARE significant. Hope this answers things. - Tshawn

 

[Jeremiahjj]

Jeremiah - I think the topic of marriage is too separate an issue for me to addres here but your concerns and thoughts seem valid to me and you had the kindness to express your views without demeaning or hurtful language to homosexually oriented people. You said I paint with a broad brush. Yes, in my anger I I DO believe the teachings of my Church. But when they speak in areas they have no knowlege or experience in, I feel perfectly free to use my God-given conscience! That’s what it’s for.

T-shawn

Hi, TShawn, a quick comment here and then I must go catch a plane, assuming the flight hasn’t been canceled. People who depend on their conscience can get themselves in trouble. Even Hitler loved his dog but he thought he was doing the right thing by killing Jews. Instead, I would suggest depending on the Bible, Catechism of the Church, writings of the church fathers, and lives of the saints for guidance. After all that has been taken into consideration, one’s own conscience may be consulted.

Gotta run. Have a great day.

 

[householder]

Tshawn, thank you for replying to my questions. I will also try to keep in mind your advice that we should frame our comments with the knowledge that unknown persons could be reading them. Of course you are right. And lazily constructed replies could do harm, as you pointed out earlier. Thank you for this salutary warning.

 

[Lynn-D]

LynnD - Thank you for the bottom of my heart for your informative post on Transsexualism. I personally believe people like us choose to use the word “Transgender” instead of Transsexual because it doesn’t have the suffix “sexual” attached. People seem to get confused and think of the condition as a sexual issue or perversion which it is not. So, it’s easier to just say Transgendered. I have even used this general and vague term myself for that reason.

I believe in being factual in my comments except when my mouth might be working faster than my brain as happened often when a youth in college.

In regard to the use of transgender I find that to be somewhat a misidentification just as I might suppose to call a person a heterogender or a homogender might also be. :yup:

If you identify as a transgender then you also align yourself with sexual orientation as it appears under the acronym GLBT. After all the term transgender itself was initially meant to only include those who were transvestites and crossdressing street prostitutes and purposely coined not to include transsexuals which had always been a medical term.

I know that transsexualism is not driven by sexual deviance nor is it connected in it basic meaning to sexual orientation. So then I and perhaps others might wonder if that is to be taken as truth then why are the transsexuals allowing themselves to be placed under the transgender banner aligned with gays, lesbians and bisexuals…the GLB?

Perhaps if the transsexuals would not align themselves with crossdressers and transvestites under the transgender umbrella there might be more understanding and less argument of whether the surgery is a medical necessity or simply one on a long list of transgender cosmetic wishes? And, gender in my lexicon always meant brain identity so to trans-gender seems not possible since it was what you and I and everyone else was born with. But, if you said I want to trans-sex then I and everyone would know exactly what you might mean without a confusing term like transgender muddling up the facts. Yes???

Lynn-D, simply a pragmatist :doh2:

 

[TShawn]

Jeremiah -

I do take the Bible, the Catechism, and the early church fathers very seriously. All three of these things led me to the Catholic Church six years ago. I’m still very greatful for that. But none of them say anything regarding transexualism, so I MUST use my conscience. I hope you can understand my predicament. I hope you have a safe and SANE flight! Take care.

Householder - God bless you!

LynnD - You are making me strain my brain! I’ve not given as much thought to the term “transgender vs. transexual” as you have stated here in your post. I have always understood “transgender” to refer to those who don’t feel the need to change their bodies to align with their brain, but DO not feel comfortable identifying themselves strictly in binary gender terms. I’m greatful that you have educated yourself on this topic and I hope it sheds more understanding to many other people here since I don’t think most people give any of this stuff any thought because they really don’t (for the most part), have to! So, they don’t understand it. I really can understand this and am sympathetic when people have problems with it because it can be hard to understand. I lose that sympathy only when people get ugly about it. Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut here. - Tshawn

 

[Lynn-D]

I do take the Bible, the Catechism, and the early church fathers very seriously. All three of these things led me to the Catholic Church six years ago. I’m still very greatful for that. But none of them say anything regarding transexualism, so I MUST use my conscience. I hope you can understand my predicament. I hope you have a safe and SANE flight! Take care.
LynnD - You are making me strain my brain! Tshawn

TShawn - I will try not to strain your brain.

I am what is sometimes referred to as a ‘cradle Catholic’. Even went to Catholic Schools and attend mass on Sundays and Holy Days. Always receive communion for that brings me into harmony with Jesus at the Last Supper. I am not an expert on Catholic Theology though and will be the first to admit it.

I agree that the bible seems not to address what is now called transsexualism except perhaps in the matter of some eunuchs. I suspect some of them might too have been intersex with ambiguous genitalia or might even have been transsexuals.

Anyway, the bible does offer information on homosexuality and crossdressing which is one of the elements to which transgender originally was coined to include yet stating as well that it had no connection to the medical term already in use - transsexualism.

As I stated before perhaps the bible was dealing with crossdressing in the matter of deception in sexual matters and clearly did not address the issue of IS’s or TS’s. I really don’t understand so will not go further on this issue.

The church over the years seems to have taken the condition of transsexuality to be somewhat an element under the GLB banner after the ‘T’ was added. Seems to me that the church’s position is reflective of what those accepting transgenderism accepted for themselves by the attachment. That was my previous point in another post. It just seems ludicrous to include those who are not driven by sexual orientation and/or fetishism to be somehow included as being part and parcel of the GLBT network. That is confusing to me and I might suppose to many others as well.

If you have a medical condition (which I believe intersex and transsexual are) then why would you allow yourself as a Catholic to be attached to an acronym denoting sexual preference and/or behavior which GLBT most assuredly does? I guess that is my question which so far is unanswered.

Lynn-D

 

[v3orb]

As I stated before perhaps the bible was dealing with crossdressing in the matter of deception in sexual matters and clearly did not address the issue of IS’s or TS’s. I really don’t understand so will not go further on this issue.

The church over the years seems to have taken the condition of transsexuality to be somewhat an element under the GLB banner after the ‘T’ was added. Seems to me that the church’s position is reflective of what those accepting transgenderism accepted for themselves by the attachment. That was my previous point in another post.
If you have a medical condition (which I believe intersex and transsexual are) then why would you allow yourself as a Catholic to be attached to an acronym denoting sexual preference and/or behavior which GLBT most assuredly does? I guess that is my question which so far is unanswered.

It’s the closest thing to acceptance that most intersex/gender and/or transpeople can get from the world as a whole It’s also a stereotype-based assumption about some gay people that they want to be of the opposite sex (which in most cases is not true, although there are of course GLB transgendered people too). Also, most mentally transgendered people do not feel that it is a disease or a disorder, but that they just are in the wrong bodies. Hope this clears part of your question up

 

[Mike154]

What really makes me upset about this story is that this woman was allowed to change her sex legally to a man and was allowed to legally marry another woman! This is terrible. Also the media is calling her a man when really she is a woman.

---

visit my blog…

www.mycatholicvillage.com/mike

 

[Dale_M]

What really makes me upset about this story is that this woman was allowed to change her sex legally to a man and was allowed to legally marry another woman! This is terrible.

I am not quite sure of what you disapprove. Is it that Thomas Beatie did not surgically go far enough? If he had had the reproductive tract of his childhood excised so that pregnancy was impossible, would you still feel upset?

 

[Mike154]

I am not quite sure of what you disapprove. Is it that Thomas Beatie did not surgically go far enough? If he had had the reproductive tract of his childhood excised so that pregnancy was impossible, would you still feel upset?

First of all Thomas is not her original name. I believe it is Katie or something like that. She entered a beauty peagant when she was a young girl. Even if she had her reproductive tract removed so that pregnancy was impossible she would still remain to be a woman. So, yes I am upset about this. It is very disturbing to me that anyone would be allowed to legally change their sex.

 

[Dale_M]

It is very disturbing to me that anyone would be allowed to legally change their sex.

Okay, I wondered if that is what you meant.

When I lived in California I had a couple friends who were transsexual. We talked a bit, and I learned a lot. I don’t doubt that they are leading happier, healthier lives today than before they changed their sex.

Nature makes mistakes. It is good when we are able to correct them.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You can’t change your sex!!!

Your DNA is still that of a man’s if you were born a man. It’s still a woman’s if you were born a woman.

Surgical mutilation isn’t ‘changing your sex.’

 

[Dale_M]

Surgical mutilation isn’t ‘changing your sex.’

No indeed not. If some doctor offers you surgical mutilation when you are requesting a sex change, I strongly advise you find another doctor.

The Church has a policy that the sex of a person is immutable. This is probably true, but not in the way the policy is commonly understood. Gender identity seems to be fixed at an early age and research suggests that it is determined by more than simple XX or XY chromosomes. Since it is not possible to change the gender identity, changing the body to conform to that gender identity may well be the right choice for an individual.

Current Church policy forbids the changing of baptismal records, forbids transsexuals from entering religious life or the priesthood, and forbids a transsexual from marrying anyone (man or woman). But the science behind transsexualism is still in its infancy, and there is much we don’t know. I struggle with this aspect of the Church, and wonder if the policy isn’t premature.

 

[Mike154]

Okay, I wondered if that is what you meant.

When I lived in California I had a couple friends who were transsexual. We talked a bit, and I learned a lot. I don’t doubt that they are leading happier, healthier lives today than before they changed their sex.

Nature makes mistakes. It is good when we are able to correct them.

A person cannot change their sex, no matter what hormones are taken or how many surgeries are performed.

 

[Lynn-D]

A person cannot change their sex, no matter what hormones are taken or how many surgeries are performed.

Mike and Sailor Kenshin, - what about those born with ambiguous genitalia and were declared as male at birth but later found to have inner female organs then they had surgery to be female? Or how about the woman who gave birth and later she was found to have XY chromosomes which is male? And how about those born with both XY and XX - chimera?
No guys, sex is not an absolute.

Lynn-D

 

[Mike154]

Mike and Sailor Kenshin, - what about those born with ambiguous genitalia and were declared as male at birth but later found to have inner female organs then they had surgery to be female? Or how about the woman who gave birth and later she was found to have XY chromosomes which is male? And how about those born with both XY and XX - chimera?
No guys, sex is not an absolute.

Lynn-D

I’m sure that the cases you bring up are extremely rare.

 

[Lynn-D]

I’m sure that the cases you bring up are extremely rare.

Yes the cases I brought up might be rare but not as rare as some might think. I agree with Dale that research someday will find answers to the questions of why a child is born with conditions that so far seem unexplainable.

I also think that most people are not aware of some research findings and simply apply their own prejudices in argument to refute actually what has been found to be supportive of why some feel they were born with brain sex opposite genital sex. Here is a link that might help you in understanding some of the research I am talking about:
f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kKwCSMOHPAO_KXduKrkmvIPvhWl_riNfw6FeNvsBwuk8ytAz-lH277-TC7abby8F8ohMtPVjZ03B83TQA9Wc0w/TRANSSEXUAL%20BRAIN%20STUDIES/Original%20Studies%2C%20BSTc.doc

No, I am not arguing in support of the Beattie escapade where she is having a baby yet calls herself a he. I am particularly distressed over the fact she took male hormones for a long enough period to affect facial hair growth and that I fear might just be harmful to the fetus either physically or psychologically.

Lynn-D