A pregnant man?

[pathia]

I feel strongly that cases like Beattie do stunt the arguments offered in defense of the IS and TS as medical conditions within the church. Her case offers nothing but a magnate for ridicule that becomes equally borne by others who really are IS and/or TS. It definitely does not give them reason to hope for acceptance or understanding once again by the church as was previously the case under Pope Paul VI. The Church might someday accept IS and TS as the medical conditions they are but never the non-biological social construct … transgender.

Lynn-D

Beattie isn’t Catholic last time I checked? How does his/her predicament have anything to do with Catholic Dogma?

It’s probably a good thing I left the Church behind, it obviously has never had any intention of even remotely trying to understand me at any point or time. More to the point, it has abandoned me.

 

[Mike154]

Beattie isn’t Catholic last time I checked? How does his/her predicament have anything to do with Catholic Dogma?

It’s probably a good thing I left the Church behind, it obviously has never had any intention of even remotely trying to understand me at any point or time. More to the point, it has abandoned me.

Why are you on a catholic site then? By the way the church doesn’t abandon anyone. Jesus Christ wants everyone to be part of His church.

 

[Lynn-D]

Beattie isn’t Catholic last time I checked? How does his/her predicament have anything to do with Catholic Dogma?

It’s probably a good thing I left the Church behind, it obviously has never had any intention of even remotely trying to understand me at any point or time. More to the point, it has abandoned me.

It makes no difference if Beattie is Catholic or not. I never assumed that connection. It is her position that is affecting those IS and TS who are Catholic that concerns many.

Pathia, I can fully understand your frustration with some of the policies of the Catholic Church. You are not alone since many of us want changes obviously not yet attainable. As in the past sometimes the Catholic Church follows a slow path behind the advancement of science and medicine.

But please understand that your leaving the church behind I sense was less than a final move since you are debating your issue here in the hope of some understanding. You have that understanding from many here and you should know that I fully understand your angst.

I really think that you are arguing in favor of conditions and behaviors other than your being IS. If so then I suspect you might be misdirecting your energies and efforts. Focus on what you need from the church rather than what others might demand in contrast to biblical teaching.

Lynn-D

 

[Dale_M]

Why are you on a catholic site then? By the way the church doesn’t abandon anyone. Jesus Christ wants everyone to be part of His church.

Yes, but often His followers don’t do a good job at conveying His wishes.

Pathia, I am sorry for the pain and ill-treatment you have received from Catholics. It saddens me that we have done so poorly. And it saddens me that you, who are sincere, have been abused.

How does that old prayer go?
“Lord Jesus, protect me from Your followers.”

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. And I am sorry that we hadn’t said so earlier. We have failed in a matter of basic human compassion.

 

[Lynn-D]

Yes, but often His followers don’t do a good job at conveying His wishes.

Pathia, I am sorry for the pain and ill-treatment you have received from Catholics. It saddens me that we have done so poorly. And it saddens me that you, who are sincere, have been abused.

How does that old prayer go?
“Lord Jesus, protect me from Your followers.”

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. And I am sorry that we hadn’t said so earlier. We have failed in a matter of basic human compassion.

May I add my condolences to those of Dale’s. I too should have recognized the loss of your mother. Please forgive me.

Lynn-D

 

[pathia]

Yes, but often His followers don’t do a good job at conveying His wishes.

How does that old prayer go?
“Lord Jesus, protect me from Your followers.”

Why are you on a catholic site then? By the way the church doesn’t abandon anyone. Jesus Christ wants everyone to be part of His church.

I was raised Catholic?

It’s members have a funny way of making me feel welcome. I fairly regularly get vicious hatemail and obscene IM’s from people that no doubt found my contact information from my profile here, they discuss things about me that I’ve only ever discussed here so they have to be from here. Nevermind the gossip mills that are catholic congregations that have made me feel unwelcome from at least five churches.

 

[pathia]

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. And I am sorry that we hadn’t said so earlier. We have failed in a matter of basic human compassion.

May I add my condolences to those of Dale’s. I too should have recognized the loss of your mother. Please forgive me.

May I add my condolences to those of Dale’s. I too should have recognized the loss of your mother. Please forgive me.

Lynn-D

I haven’t spoken about it much because it was not a…peaceful passing.

Mother was very troubled and left my father when she was sick to sleep with another man while she was still married to father. She did some very awful things before she died, and I pray it was just the cancer making her crazy, not her true nature.

She died a painful, slow death. The way she died has strained my faith even more. She was a good person, until the cancer, and her pain was so unending, so unstopping, nothing the doctors could do did anything for her pain. There is no purpose for such an end. You could literally see the cancer eating her, you could feel it when you hugged her.

God is so horrifically cruel, I have no words for how angry I am at him now. There is no logic in anything, it just makes no sense, often I wonder if God is simply utterly insane, only an insane person could create such horrors.

 

[rlg94086]

I was raised Catholic?

It’s members have a funny way of making me feel welcome. I fairly regularly get vicious hatemail and obscene IM’s from people that no doubt found my contact information from my profile here, they discuss things about me that I’ve only ever discussed here so they have to be from here. Nevermind the gossip mills that are catholic congregations that have made me feel unwelcome from at least five churches.

I hope you find your way back to the Church. Don’t judge the faith based on some obnoxious and/or ignorant members of the Church. Besides, what I’m sure you will recognize is that you will get the same treatment from Catholics, non-Catholic Christians and even many non-religious folk. Humans are humans.

The *real *difficulty is not the people though, is it? If the Church is correct and God really does expect you to live a celibate life due to your ambiguous gender, would you consider obedience to God? That is a much tougher issue than the barbs from people who shoud be embracing you as a fellow child of God. While I have not had to “walk in your shoes,” I have had to come to grips with Church teaching that reflected some of Jesus’ “hard sayings.”

Pray for understanding. I, for one, will still love you no matter what your decision…not that I’ll be happy about your decision though.

 

[pathia]

Pray for understanding. I, for one, will still love you no matter what your decision…not that I’ll be happy about your decision though.

I have never felt the presence of God in my entire life. Not in any church, not through any process of prayer, meditation, ritual, self-starvation, self mutilation, self induced hallucination, drugs, anything. Never, Once.

My belief in God is merely a hunch, I just don’t see the Universe working otherwise, that is all the ‘faith’ I have, and I’ve never felt anything beyond that in my entire life. I must be blind and deaf to him somehow. I see all these other people and hear these stories of feelings and sensations.

I feel nothing.

As for others being cruel. Unmistakably the most cruel people have always called themselves Christians. Every assault, every bullying, the one attempted rape, the police, the people who threw ‘holy water’ at me at school to ‘cure’ me. All of them, hid behind their Christianity to defend their actions.

I’ve yet to be assaulted by an atheist.

 

[pathia]

I do want to thank the kind comments that many individuals have left me though. It hasn’t all been bad.

I’m just very bitter right now, it’s hard to keep it out of my words, because I struggle to not be consumed by it in the flesh, I have to let it out somehow lest I get devoured.

 

[rlg94086]

I have never felt the presence of God in my entire life. Not in any church, not through any process of prayer, meditation, ritual, self-starvation, self mutilation, self induced hallucination, drugs, anything. Never, Once.

My belief in God is merely a hunch, I just don’t see the Universe working otherwise, that is all the ‘faith’ I have, and I’ve never felt anything beyond that in my entire life. I must be blind and deaf to him somehow. I see all these other people and hear these stories of feelings and sensations.

I feel nothing.

As for others being cruel. Unmistakably the most cruel people have always called themselves Christians. Every assault, every bullying, the one attempted rape, the police, the people who threw ‘holy water’ at me at school to ‘cure’ me. All of them, hid behind their Christianity to defend their actions.

I’ve yet to be assaulted by an atheist.

I think that is a matter of numbers…there are a lot more “Christians” than atheists. As far as the “feelings” and your faith. Mine is more a logical “feeling,” if that makes any sense. I’ve had some things happen, that I can’t pass off as coincidence. I have felt some emotional moments but not exactly an ecstatic experience of God.

I will pray to Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta to intercede on your behalf. Apparently, the second half of her life was “decades of darkness” regarding the presence of God.

 

[Lynn-D]

I have never felt the presence of God in my entire life. Not in any church, not through any process of prayer, meditation, ritual, self-starvation, self mutilation, self induced hallucination, drugs, anything. Never, Once.

My belief in God is merely a hunch, I just don’t see the Universe working otherwise, that is all the ‘faith’ I have, and I’ve never felt anything beyond that in my entire life. I must be blind and deaf to him somehow. I see all these other people and hear these stories of feelings and sensations.

I feel nothing.

As for others being cruel. Unmistakably the most cruel people have always called themselves Christians. Every assault, every bullying, the one attempted rape, the police, the people who threw ‘holy water’ at me at school to ‘cure’ me. All of them, hid behind their Christianity to defend their actions.

I’ve yet to be assaulted by an atheist.

Pathia, I was sexually assaulted twice…once by a group of boys who attacked me calling me names because I went to a Catholic School. The other time by a man who made it clear he did not believe in Jesus Christ when he pulled the chain and cross from my neck and threw it away.

Should I now hate all men? Of course not! I loved my father and all the men in my family but especially I loved my husband. It is the same with you and Christ. Should you disown him because of the actions done by others in HIS name. Of course not!

Your attachment to Christ is yours and yours alone. It has nothing to do with the mistakes or the harm others have caused you. HE gave HIS blood on the cross for all of us and you, I am certain, were in HIS thoughts as were those already passed on, those on the mount, and those to come when he suffered so much pain for us all.

Do not forsake HIM because of the deeds of others, “They know not what they do”. Jesus has never abandoned any of us. It is the other way around in that it is we who abandon HIM.

Lynn-D
Mathew 5:10, Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Ryan29]

On the contrary, everyone, we need not judge this person. God made this man trapped in a woman’s body and it should be celebrated that such a wonderful child of God is being made by the many chemicals and hormones that He made for these people to feel better about themselves. God made this beautiful person and through God making humans made hormones that could correct something that God created. We mustn’t judge him more than we can judge God.

 

[Mighty_Q]

On the contrary, everyone, we need not judge this person. God made this man trapped in a woman’s body and it should be celebrated that such a wonderful child of God is being made by the many chemicals and hormones that He made for these people to feel better about themselves. God made this beautiful person and through God making humans made hormones that could correct something that God created. We mustn’t judge him more than we can judge God.

That is one of the most absurd cliche’s of our times.

 

[pathia]

That is one of the most absurd cliche’s of our times.

Yet it’s perfectly ok to force corrections on individuals like myself when we were born?

At the direction of priests in my case no less, because male and female he made them! If not, well…we better chop them until we are as He intended!

 

[Mighty_Q]

Yet it’s perfectly ok to force corrections on individuals like myself when we were born?

At the direction of priests in my case no less, because male and female he made them! If not, well…we better chop them until we are as He intended!

As has been stated, this case is severely different than yours.

 

[pathia]

As has been stated, this case is severely different than yours.

By why is mutilation OK in one case, and bad in another? I was mutilated, they may have called it something else, but that is what they did, and my parents did it at the suggestion of the priests.

 

[Mighty_Q]

By why is mutilation OK in one case, and bad in another? I was mutilated, they may have called it something else, but that is what they did, and my parents did it at the suggestion of the priests.

That is wrong, and I am not defending that.

I was just commenting on the phrase “a man trapped in a woman’s body.”

 

[pathia]

That is wrong, and I am not defending that.

I was just commenting on the phrase “a man trapped in a woman’s body.”

I guess it’s simply impossible for people to see things from my perspective.

When you have had to be assigned, and you have no idea what you are, what you were supposed to be, whether your feelings are correct, or what this test, or that test, or this priest, or that priest, or one parent or the other parent believes. That normally doesn’t conflict. It does for me. Everything conflicts. Everything has different answers, even the Church. There are no answers for me, none.

It’s not much of a stretch when you are viewing it from my shoes, it really isn’t. My body was born completely screwed up, God wished it to be so for one reason or another. I don’t see why it couldn’t happen in other ways.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

That is one of the most absurd cliche’s of our times.

AMEN.