A priest told my husband an annulment is easy

[whatevergirl]

There are problems between her and her husband, and no detective is needed to know that. Whether there are other problems or not, addressing the issues between her and her husband is the place to start.

The OP might also point out to her husband that those who do not understand their own history are doomed to repeat it. If he does not explore why on earth he married and then tired of someone whom he has loved in the past and who has been faithful to him and done him no wrong, then he can expect that his next marriage will probably start and end in the same way. Even he can’t want that. Even if he thinks he wants out, it is possible to convince him that it is in his best interest to “earn” his way out through joint counselling. I know men who wished now that they had been so wise, and others that are glad they were. The latter group are still married, more happily than ever before.

Do not despair, OP! With God’s help, even this can turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to your marriage. Look upon the crucifix, and know that it is within the power of God to take the worst thing that ever happened and make it into the best thing that ever happened, for those who are willing to trust Him.

Agreed.

It happens also to women. I wanted ‘out’ of my marriage about 8 or so years ago, and we were separated for a short time–thankfully, through prayer and heading back to my faith, I realized that I had a very self centered view of marriage, and that stemmed back to childhood. Had I left my husband, I would have repeated the same thing again with another man, if I never figured out what was wrong to begin with! So true!

Praying for you, V. It will be tough, but keep your faith, stay close to Jesus, and you will be able to get through this.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am really sorry this is happening to you, but I have to admit reading all this has totally turned me off of the Catholic Church!

Totally. I dont know why this lady who is suffering should have to be dealing with all this stress the Church has designed to make this be an additonal souce of torture for her to worry about now!

How is this a good for anyone?

Unless the priest was indeed as flippant about possibility of annulment as the woman’s husband suggested–and that is by no means a certainty–I don’t know how the Church is responsible for this woman’s angst. Her husband is the one that is putting her through the wringer.

As for the ease of annulment, the Church walks a tightrope on that one. Marriage is inviolate. If your spouse runs out on a valid marriage to you, that is extremely painful, but it doesn’t end the marriage. In that case, the Church does not bar you from anything in the life of the Church, excepting infidelity to your spouse or entering those ministries open only to the unmarried. This is one source of pain, for a valid marriage can surely feel like a marriage that never was, if one or both of the parties decide after marriage to deny their lifelong commitment. Being married, though, isn’t dependent on an unbroken run of feeling married. It is a fact, not a feeling.

If you attempted marriage unsuccessfully, though, you aren’t married and have the right to be declared free to contract a marriage in the future. Yes, I meant that: you have that right. The Church cannot justly withhold a decree of nullity when it knows that an attempted marriage did not succeed in achieving validity.

When in doubt, the Church rules in favor of the validity of the attempted marriage, though. Since divine intervention to remove doubt or to ensure that tribunals never make mistakes or witnesses never mis-represent the truth is not guaranteed, though, there is considerable pain around this whole issue. Besides, whether the marriage was valid or not, whether a decree of nullity is granted or not, divorce hurts, and it even happens to people like the OP, who even her husband would admit did everything in her power to ensure that the marriage they attempted would be valid, lasting, to the benefit of themselves, their child and the Church, both in this world and the next. This happens to Catholics who do everything possible to be faithful and successful.

So yes, this is a painful issue. Still, it is difficult to see a better way to handle this issue justly. You can’t justly let validly married spouses just abandon their spouses and marry someone else, with the Church’s blessing. You can’t justly keep people who are free to marry from marrying, or withhold the Church’s blessing from the real unions, because of the prior invalid ones. You can’t make tribunals perfect. I wish the Church could do better, but that is where we are.

 

[EasterJoy]

Agreed.

It happens also to women. I wanted ‘out’ of my marriage about 8 or so years ago, and we were separated for a short time–thankfully, through prayer and heading back to my faith, I realized that I had a very self centered view of marriage, and that stemmed back to childhood. Had I left my husband, I would have repeated the same thing again with another man, if I never figured out what was wrong to begin with! So true!

Praying for you, V. It will be tough, but keep your faith, stay close to Jesus, and you will be able to get through this.

Oh, yes…we women do it, too.

Thanks for sharing your story. This can still go right for the OP, very right.

 

[rinnie]

I am really sorry this is happening to you, but I have to admit reading all this has totally turned me off of the Catholic Church!

Totally. I dont know why this lady who is suffering should have to be dealing with all this stress the Church has designed to make this be an additonal souce of torture for her to worry about now!

How is this a good for anyone?

I knew this would happen, A Priest is accused, convicted, and never had a trial. I hate this. You have no right to blame this on the Catholic Church. Did the Church Make this man do what he did, this has nothing to do with the CC. The Church is the one place that this women is going to get the help she needs. The CC is about helping and fixing problems, not making them worse. You have no right. Now back to the Poster there is a place that you can go to thru the Church, I have heard about it on this site its called retroville. Not sure if anyone mentioned it to you. I have never had the need for it thank God, But one never knows, It is the first place I would run to. I know i didnt spell it right, and someone may have mentioned it to you. But please try it, I have heard it works wonders. Its a place for marriages just like yours that are in big trouble. Please try it, Its a place where you two can get the help you need, and pray and get a better relationship with God too. I really think it can help you. I have you in my prayers. And dont give up. I like you go to St Jude all the time. Hes my favorite Saint for the Hopeless thats why hes my favorite. But all kidding aside he has helped me so so many times. Keep with your prayers, and stay close to God right now, he will lead you where you need to be. Have faith Love, you will be okay. God knows your pain, hes suffering right with you. Take care and kiss that baby. I pray that God will keep you guys together.

 

[BerenCamlost]

I am really sorry this is happening to you, but I have to admit reading all this has totally turned me off of the Catholic Church!

Totally. I dont know why this lady who is suffering should have to be dealing with all this stress the Church has designed to make this be an additonal souce of torture for her to worry about now!

How is this a good for anyone?

Please don’t say that. It would be rash and unfortunate to think that this is the typical situation or that the Church “designed” anything to harm anyone! The Church’s teachings on marriage and love are beautiful and true. Please think twice before you reject it all on the basis of this.

 

[kage_ar]

Would your husband consider trying one weekend to save his marriage? .orgretrouvaille

 

[davy39]

My heart goes out to you, and I’ll pray for you. I can speak from a little experience here. I married a girl, (a non-Catholic). We had one child, and divorced after 11 years. She had a boy friend on the side, who she eventually married. Anyway, I met a girl after about a year. We married in a Methodist church (mistake) and started our lives together. After a few years, she expressed interest in our Church, so we went to our local priest. He told us that WE would have to have an annulment, and have our marriage blessed by the Church. At the same time, my wife decided she wanted to take RCIA classes. We really had our hands full! It took about a year of some of the most personal questions about BOTH of our previous marriages. I believe for my part, the annulment was granted because my first wife, before our marriage, had promised to raise any children we had as Catholics. After our daughter was born, she said that she would never see the inside of a Catholic church, and raised her as a Methodist. In other words, she lied about her intentions even before we were married. After RCIA classes were completed, my wife was accepted into the Church, and our marriage was solumnized a few weeks later. We will celebrate our 29th anniv. in Oct. I’m telling you all of this because I don’t think the Church just runs around handing out annulments as easy as pie. At least they didn’t in our case. Good luck and I’ll be praying for you. But do talk it all over with your Msgr as soon as you can. It will really help, I’m sure. Dave

 

[turtle18]

God wants us to be “happy”? That is a bunch of Oprah psychobabble. If indeed your priest told the husband that, I can’t imagine he has any concept of marriage at all. People are going to have their ups and downs in marriage, no matter what.

God wants us to live a holy life, in accordance with His will. There are many things opposed to God’s will which will make us “happy.” Divorce is not in accordance with His will.

I can’t imagine the tribunal would grant your husband an annulment if you tell them everything you have told us. Usually, if one partner is this opposed to it, it doesn’t go through. If it does, God help us all. They are making a mockery of the sacrament of marriage AND abusing the real reasons annulments were instituted.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Turtle, can anyone really know what is really in someone else’s head when they do anything? We can’t say that if the Church decides that her husband has a psychological or other impediment that would have nullified his consent at the time of the wedding that it makes a mockery of marriage.

The man is making a mockery of marriage.

I liken the annulment process to a plane crash. Everyone gets on the plane absolutely sure it is going to reach its destination. It doesn’t matter if it is a bumpy flight, if it lands safely, no one questions it.

But if it crashes, then the NTSB is all over the place examining everything and coming to the conclusion there was something wrong that should have prevented that plane from ever being cleared for takeoff.

Lots of marriages have bumpy flights. But it’s the ones that crash and burn that get all the attention.

And yes, God does want us to be happy. But the priest didn’t finish the WHOLE teaching:

God wants us to Know, Love and Serve HIM on earth so as to be happy with Him in Heaven.

That is the perspective we should have.

 

[wina]

I strongly recommend individual professional counseling to help you sort through all this mess. Counseling isn’t just for crazy people, or sick people. It’s for everyday people who are going through a rough patch and who can use some help from an outside perspective.

.

Yes, it may even better to go to Professional Pastoral counseling which will see the problem through catholic faith if you had one in your area.

 

[mommyof4]

I have no more advice to give you, but I wanted to let you know that you and your family are in my prayers!

 

[AmyMarie71]

*I have posted on this site many times and have received great advice. I, on the other hand, am on the flip side and would like to comment.

To make it short, I am a 36 yo catholic female, no kids and never married. I am involved socially with a 38 yo catholic male who has been divorced going on 3 years, no kids. He is in the middle of getting an annulment so we can move our relationship to the next level and do it the right way. I respect him for that but, this annulment process is anything BUT easy!

The Msgr. has replied to him through letters and this tribunal (Archdiocese of Philadelphia) will only correspond via postal mail. Even with his enormous amount of evidence, he has been unable to track down witnesses to his marriage and it’s failure. His immediate family have been at war for a while and are unwilling to compromise and be witnesses. He has been able to get one witness and two character witnesses to date. The most recent letter from the tribunal stated that his one witness was ‘VAGUE’ and an affirmative decision is highly unlikely. This poses the question as to how catholic’s who wait 15-20 years AFTER a civil divorce with NO witnesses due to not knowing their whereabouts or they are deceased CAN get a Decree of Nulity? This is where, amoung other areas, that the annulment process is inconsistent with major flaws.

The above letter was sent AFTER they already took the case and told him that there were not one, not two but THREE Cannon Laws that his case is going to be considered:

Excluding children: Birth control was used by ex-wife.

Quality of Person/Misrepresentation: She came across and made it known that she wanted a family but after marriage, continued to use birth control. She was Baptist and went through the RCIA classes, got baptised, etc. and became catholic but after marriage, she did not practice the religion.

Fraud/Deceit: She has a criminal record for stealing. She got convicted BEFORE they got married and he never knew of this. Then she stole again from her place of employment AFTER they were married and then refused to go back to work and left all financial responsibility on his shoulders. She also hid a mental illness for which he was unaware. AFTER they were married, he started getting the medical bills in the mail. That is how he found out, not by his wife coming to him and telling him. If he would have known about these things, he would have never maried her.

Again, I am on the other side here waiting patiently as this annulment process goes through so I can start my life with this man. I am just letting you know that in our situation, even with all of this evidence, they are saying it might be shot down just because of the lack of a witness? That is where I question the consistency of this process within the catholic church. Her criminal/civil offences are public record and there are copies of the medical bills showing her mental illness.

What else does the Tribunal want from this man? *

 

[whatevergirl]

I didn’t know that witnesses were a MUST for the declaration of nulllity? You pose a great question!!

 

[EasterJoy]

*…I am on the other side here waiting patiently as this annulment process goes through so I can start my life with this man. I am just letting you know that in our situation, even with all of this evidence, they are saying it might be shot down just because of the lack of a witness? That is where I question the consistency of this process within the catholic church. Her criminal/civil offences are public record and there are copies of the medical bills showing her mental illness.

What else does the Tribunal want from this man? *

I feel for your friend, but there are two difficulties that can’t be changed, because they are necessary. One, the question is not whether his wife has committed some serious sins. This is, as you say, a matter of public record. The question is proving that some particular condition, such as those you listed, existed as an impediment at the time they took their vows. Marriages aren’t rendered null because one party, fully intending and cognisant of what they were vowing, loused it up later. Marriages are not rendered invalid because of illnesses, even serious mental illnesses, that befall a spouse after marriage. Such things may provide sufficient reason for a separation and a civil divorce to be morally entered into–a wife is not morally required to remain civilly joined to a husband who beats her or squanders family finances needed for the necessities of life–but do not render the marriage invalid. Marriages are null because some impediment in intention or aptitude was lacking in at least one of the parties at the time the vows were taken. It is fully possible to contract a valid marriage with a notorious sinner.

Two, the problem of proof. The presumption has to be in favor of the validity of the marriage, just as the presumption is that there is a person in a house facing demolition…before you blow it up, you have to confirm that it is indeed not inhabited. A decree of nullity cannot be issued unless it has been firmly established that a marriage did not take place. Just as in any other court, tribunals have standards of what may and may not be admitted as proof, and the standards are not the same as the standards that exist in civil courts.

Someone I know did not get her annulment because her husband testified that while he fully intended to keep his vows when he made them, that he changed his mind after being married for some time. The tribunal could not issue a decree of nullity, because the marriage was valid. Once a marriage is validly joined, later choices, even seriously and stubbornly sinful ones, do not render it invalid.

This is all very hard, I know, but it is what we risk when we marry.

 

[AmyMarie71]

I feel for your friend, but there are two difficulties that can’t be changed, because they are necessary. One, the question is not whether his wife has committed some serious sins. This is, as you say, a matter of public record. The question is proving that some particular condition, such as those you listed, existed as an impediment at the time they took their vows. Marriages aren’t rendered null because one party, fully intending and cognisant of what they were vowing, loused it up later. Marriages are not rendered invalid because of illnesses, even serious mental illnesses, that befall a spouse after marriage. Such things may provide sufficient reason for a separation and a civil divorce to be morally entered into–a wife is not morally required to remain civilly joined to a husband who beats her or squanders family finances needed for the necessities of life–but do not render the marriage invalid. Marriages are null because some impediment in intention or aptitude was lacking in at least one of the parties at the time the vows were taken. It is fully possible to contract a valid marriage with a notorious sinner.

Two, the problem of proof. The presumption has to be in favor of the validity of the marriage, just as the presumption is that there is a person in a house facing demolition…before you blow it up, you have to confirm that it is indeed not inhabited. A decree of nullity cannot be issued unless it has been firmly established that a marriage did not take place. Just as in any other court, tribunals have standards of what may and may not be admitted as proof, and the standards are not the same as the standards that exist in civil courts.

Someone I know did not get her annulment because her husband testified that while he fully intended to keep his vows when he made them, that he changed his mind after being married for some time. The tribunal could not issue a decree of nullity, because the marriage was valid. Once a marriage is validly joined, later choices, even seriously and stubbornly sinful ones, do not render it invalid.

This is all very hard, I know, but it is what we risk when we marry.

*I understand fully what you are saying. If the tribunal did not think they had a case at all, they would have never told him that there are THREE Cannon Laws, let alone one, that his case can be heard and tried under. His wife stealing and being a criminal happened BEFORE they were wed and unfortunately it happenend a second time AFTER. He has no problem getting the proof from the county courthouse showing that it did occur BEFORE they were married and this indeed shows a condition and serious (name removed by moderator)ediment BEFORE and at THE TIME the vows were taken. Also her becoming a catholic just in order to get married to him and not to practice the faith as a way of life was deceitful. The tribunal has yet to find proof that she was a member in good standing within any catholic parish while they were married.

Cannon 1098 A person contracts invalidly who enters into a marriage deceived by malice, perpetrated to obtain consent, concerning some quality of the other partner which by its very nature can gravely disturb the partnership of conjugal life*.

I’d definitly say that her deception (hiding mental illness, criminal record, becoming catholic to marry him with no wish to practice the faith and, most deceitful, was convincing him that she also wanted to start a family when in reality, she never inteded to, etc) gravely disturbed their partnership, wouldn’t you? Even with the marraige failing after a little over 2 years.

All in all, he has given his testimony in truth and it is now the tribunal’s job to prove otherwise (that he is…well…lieing). With his proof, I see it nearly impossible for them to do so. So you can say I am praying alot!!

 

[EasterJoy]

*I understand fully what you are saying. If the tribunal did not think they had a case at all, they would have never told him that there are THREE Cannon Laws, let alone one, that his case can be heard and tried under. His wife stealing and being a criminal happened BEFORE they were wed and unfortunately it happenend a second time AFTER. He has no problem getting the proof from the county courthouse showing that it did occur BEFORE they were married and this indeed shows a condition and serious (name removed by moderator)ediment BEFORE and at THE TIME the vows were taken. Also her becoming a catholic just in order to get married to him and not to practice the faith as a way of life was deceitful. The tribunal has yet to find proof that she was a member in good standing within any catholic parish while they were married.

Cannon 1098 A person contracts invalidly who enters into a marriage deceived by malice, perpetrated to obtain consent, concerning some quality of the other partner which by its very nature can gravely disturb the partnership of conjugal life*.

I’d definitly say that her deception (hiding mental illness, criminal record, becoming catholic to marry him with no wish to practice the faith and, most deceitful, was convincing him that she also wanted to start a family when in reality, she never inteded to, etc) gravely disturbed their partnership, wouldn’t you? Even with the marraige failing after a little over 2 years.

All in all, he has given his testimony in truth and it is now the tribunal’s job to prove otherwise (that he is…well…lieing). With his proof, I see it nearly impossible for them to do so. So you can say I am praying alot!!

First off, if his first marriage is invalid, I also profoundlly hope he gets a decree that reflects that. Justice requires that those who are in fact free to marry be legally freed to do it.

Having said that…someone can have a rap sheet a mile long before and after marriage, and yet may enter validly into marriage.

Likewise, a Lutheran, intending to convert and marry a Catholic, does not invalidate the marriage by leaving the Church later.

Deciding to have children and changing your mind after you marry doesn’t invalidate the marriage.

You know all this. The whole problem is proving what really happened. It seems to me that proof of the prospective bride having hidden a serious mental illness would be the easiest to prove, since it may be proven that the mental illness existed before marriage and witnesses may verify the contention of the prospective groom that he knew nothing of it when their vows were made–that is, that the one knew of no mental illness and the two others can attest to the prospective groom’s thorough truthfulness.

May God’s justice come swiftly, in all these cases, and may His will be done.

Your point about not waiting to pursue a tribunal’s finding concerning a marriage believed to be null is well-taken, though. The years don’t make it easier to come up with the necessary proof, and the rules and process that must be used to supply that proof are not the same as those that must be used by a secular judge.

 

[materdequint]

Go to marysadvocates.org

It is a website that fights no-fault divorce. There is also a yahoo group associated with it, defending marriage. There are a lot of people who have been through what you have. People who have been divorced, separated, reconciled, successfully fought annulment all the way to the Roman Rota.

Just because a priest is a priest, doesn’t make him an expert on canon law. I’ve heard a lot of ridiculous stuff as to what are grounds for an annulment. You can look up the grounds at Mary’s advocates straight from canon law.

I also recommend the book Torn Asunder by Robert Vasoli - he successfully petioned the Roman Rota and had a US tribunal’s decision of nullity over turned.

Don’t worry right now about being alone for the rest of your life. Take one step at a time. Is it better for your daughter to live with you and your husband together or to be shuffled in between two households. Besides, after all of this would you be truly free to give yourself to another man? How would you know he wouldn’t give up when the going got tough. Hang on and pray. Marysadvocates also has websites for spouses who are standing for their marriage - alone. There are a lot of good web sites out there. Utilized them. Have masses said. Say the rosary. Your season of marital difficulty may be long, it may be short. God bless you.

 

[quiet52]

I want to encourage the OP to immediately see an attorney, if you hasn’t already. You need to protect yourself financially.
I know how it is to be “discarded” and to have to grieve my lost hopes for the future we planned. It threw me for a loop that my ex abandoned us after 18 years of marriage. Poison icing on the cake was finding out he was hiding assets. It took time for him to plan this successfully. You need legal help to protect your assets. At this point, as painful as it might be for you, you cannot assume that your husband isn’t betraying you in more ways than one. He might not be, but you need to protect yourself and your daughter as best you can legally and in other ways. As for the emotional and spiritual storms, no matter what happens, know that healing will come for you if you remain with the Church, and if you allow Christ to walk with you. You’ll even be able to forgive your husband, or perhaps ex-husband, someday, as I did. He doesn’t know, and couldn’t care less, that I have – I forgave him for my own health and because that’s what Jesus tells us to do.

Here are a couple of links re: annulment.

kofc.org/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/veritas/Veritas_CIS301.pdf

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0381.html

If you want to send a private message, please do. Know that you and your family are in my prayers.