A problem. Any answers?

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I can relate to your situation. I put my parents in the same when I was in college. It probably is a scandal to the family and the Church. I know now my mistake but at the time if anyone tried to tell me not to live with my boyfriend, now husband, it wouldn’t have changed my mind. In my mind we were doing nothing wrong because we were practicing chastity. I believe you have to ask the Holy Spirit to help you reach her. Offer a lot of love and maybe some things to read on the topic. If it helps my husband (then boyfriend) turned out with a wonderful marriage of 16 years and four beautiful children. This does not advocate what the Church teaches as being a sin but it may give you some hope. (Explaining this behavior to my children may be some what difficult if I am ever in your situation). The Holy Spirit and adoration can and do work miracles and sometimes not right away!
 
My first thought is that if your daughter is not yet 18 and still legally your dependent, she needs to live where you and her mother tell her she is living. What means of support will she have when she moves away to live with her boyfriend? I would suspect she would still be relying on you, so you have the upper hand here. You say that it is in the city where HE is attending college and it is for the summer. Does that mean she won’t be attending college with him in September and will then return to your house in the fall? If that is the case and if she is still in high school, as I said, you should have the control over her. My daughter will be 19 in August and finishes her freshman year away at college tomorrow. She has enjoyed dorm life so much; it is so much a part of college life. Explain to your daughter that you want her to have thatundefined experience. Try to focus on the positives of her own college experience and stressing those rather than stressing the negatives of living with her boyfriend. May I also suggest Dr. Ray Guarendi (I’m not sure if I’m spelling his last name correctly)? He is on the radio and also has a website you can access through www.catholic.com. He is a wonderful Catholic counselor with sage advice. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers.
 
I agree that cohabitation is wrong. However, as a parent of 6, two of which are teenagers, I would like to offer some advice.

Simply telling your daughter that it is wrong is the first step. However, through loving conversation(s) and good example, you can help her share with equal conviction that this cohabitation is wrong. You mentioned they have not had sexual relations. This tells me that you have a wonderful starting point. Ask her why she has chosen not to have sexual relations. Use the same morals as reasons not to cohabitate.

It sounds as though you have a wonderful, honest and open relationship with your daughter.

Good luck and God Bless!
 
I’ve skimmed the other replies and there’s a commonality to most of them – to recognize an evil when you see it.

But, however you handle it, handle it with the long run in view. You don’t want to damage your relationship with your daughter. How important is it to do this? Can she handle the consequences if things get out of control? Who’s going to pay the rent and bills? Are these details settled? Perhaps you can negotiate with her with the “we’re concerned about this” approach.

Life is so fast paced, that we seldom consider the consequences of sin. In my family, my grandfather’s alcoholism affected his marriage, his children, and even us, the grandchildren – because the family was so dysfunctional.

Another example is, the priest’s sexual abuse scandal. Current issue of Nat’l Cath. Reporter laments the toll on the 95% of priests not involved. The newspaper issue also openly attacks the guilt of bishops who are not fessing up to their involvement in moving abusing priests around. The point ? The consequences of sin – in these cases on OTHER people.

So, does your daughter want to hurt her mother and father? Or, “doesn’t she care”? With prayerful wishes.
 
Wow ! What a fantastic relationship you seem to have with your daughter. She can openly discuss her sexual life with you, and it also sounds that she hasnt stormed off in fury after you told her that you think it would be sinful if she lived with her boyfriend.
I have read all the other posts and agree with them all.
I also wish I had men around me like Crimson, most men I know are only after 1 thing.
Aside from the sin of a live-in-relationship, talk to your daughter about the romance aspect.
There is nothing more exciting (well this is my opinion) than shopping together for items for your own house, cooking meals together to eat in your own house, etc.
This should all be saved for the glory of marriage.
Hopefully, your daughter is a romantic like I am
Love Kellie
 
She can openly discuss her sexual life with you
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You do have to consider though that she doesn’t exactly have much in the way of a sex life, so no wonder she’s comfortable with it 😛
 
Hmmmm, but I was never able to say the word “Sex” to my parents. At the age of 27 I was embarassed to tell them I was pregant as that would mean I had sex.
Weird as that seems.
So even though she has no sex life, she still has the Devil working in her, tempting her, unlike a younger child, who on the same level has no sex life, does not know of the temptation.
Hope that makes sense
Love Kellie
 
If there’s a dating relationship, they shouldn’t be living together. It’s great that you are having this conversation, it would be even better if she knew the answer from seeing the experience of her peers.

A dating relationship can go in two directions: towards a breakup or towards marriage. Living together interferes with either development.

If it breaks up, then you have the problem of who gets the apartment, the towels, the TV, etc. It’s a mess.

If it moves towards marriage, then you have the black and white distinction between “now” and a “lifetime commitment” and lots of time to reflect on the future without the pressure of losing access to a sexual partner. This pressure has been the cause of many divorces or anullments where there was a defect of consent or discretion at the time of the wedding.
 
May the Lord bless you all.

I can’t respond to each and every good point made, because they have all been thought-provoking.

My daughter is smart. She doesn’t fall for facile arguments; she went right to colllege after only two years of high school. I know (as far as is reasonable) that she’s telling us the truth about the situation.

I’ve mentioned all the arguments, particularly abou the near occasion of sin.

She goes to school in our town and lives at home, and she says she’ll be back for the fall semester and that she’ll be there only for the summer.

From a legal standpoint, we can’t stop her from doing what she wants to do. The local constabulary has told us so. But we also told her that we would not support her in any financial way. She understood and seemed to accept our position.

We also emphasized that we are telling her this because we love her and were concerned for her immortal soul.

We also realize that, at 17, it’s hard for some people to realize that they will die someday – perhaps soon, and when you least expect it.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies.

But, I would just like to know if I can show her anywhere in the Catechism that expressly forbids this type of living arrangement.
 
If a daughter or son takes on a live-together relationship there is basically not much you can do that would be effectively persuasive. My wife and I have watched both a son and daughter choose this path. One has produced a child born out of wedlock (whom we love very much) and a divorce (the two year old is in their recent wedding picture). The other has produced a stable relationship and twins born three years after a Catholic marriage was consummated. Both of our children still consider my wife and I “less enlightened” than they. They are still guided by the concepts that “if it feels so right then how could it be wrong” and “as long as you love someone anything goes”.

I am wondering what the statistics would be concerning how many couples who live together actually marry and how many children are born out of wedlock.
 
On a purely practical note, who will be paying for this living arrangement? Your daughter must have no clue as to how much it costs to live with her boyfriend. Do the young man’s parents know about this? If they are paying for their son’s education, room and board, I would think they might object to such a living arrangement. If you know the boy’s parents, contact them and talk about it. This might nip the whole thing in the bud right then. On the spiritual side, pray, pray, pray, and keep your daughter busy with projects this summer to maybe redirect her interests. This is such a tough age. They think they are adults, but still act like two year olds sometimes.
 
Does your daughter plan on marrying this guy someday?

If not, then cohabitation is an bad idea. Not only will there be complications when they decide to separate (who pays for what, etc.), but every guy she dates from then on will not look favorably on that situation.

If she does plan on eventually marrying this guy, then cohabitation is an EXTREMELY bad idea. Actually, premarital cohabitation is one of the main indicators of divorce. Couples who cohabitate have a 50% GREATER chance of ending in divorce than those who don’t, and 60% of couples who cohabitate breakup before marrying. Of course, everyone who chooses to do this expects themselves to be the exception rather than the rule, so citing this may not be very effective.

A good website that lists some very good reasons not to choose cohabitation is here
 
Even if she is not sexually active with her boyfriend, the “near temptation of sin” is still there. I, would not want to be put into that situation.
 
Thanks, Todd, for the informative Web site. And, thanks to you all. Good points made.

I don’t know his parents, who divorced just last year, and they aren’t Catholic. I don’t even know if they’re particularly religious. And, my daughter appears to have made up her mind on this.

Scandal is the key, and she doesn’t see how her actions can have unfathomable effects on others.

This whole thing makes me heartsick.
 
Dear stjomo

I can taste your feeling. We have walked in similar shoes in raising our children. By far it is one of the heaviest crosses a parent can bear.

One thought that has helped me get thru difficulties like this is the concept of “free will”. and the way God handles us. You know God has created each of us with free will. He does not interfere with the choices we make, even the bad ones. But He is always there, ready on a moment’s notice to take us back.

Like you, we have tried our very best to raise our children in the Catholic Church, providing catholic education and good examples for them. But there have been times when despite all our arguments against, objections to, common sense approach they have made a choice with their own free will. It was not what we would have wanted, but we respect their free will.

As we have grown older we realize it is more important that we imitate God the Father. Just be there. Just love them. But above all pray for them and place them in the garden of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.

One practical piece of advice is tuck a Green Scapular somewhere in her belongings. Each of our 6 has one under the driver seat of their cars and under their mattress. When we can’t be with them at least Our Lady is.

Will keep you and your family in our prayers. It will work out!
pat
 
You legally responsible for her until she is 18, and you can tell her no.
Many places will not permit unsupervised minors to live in rental property.
 
We’re legally responsible for her; we just can’t prevent her from moving out. Believe me, we’ve checked it out.
 
Oh yeah, and she hasn’t signed any lease; she simply moved in with him in his place.
 
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STJOMO:
Any ideas on what the church says about this type of circumstance? I’m convinced it’s no more acceptable than living together and being sexually active. What kind of solid information can I give her that would convince her that what she is contemplating is wrong (other than a dad’s advice)? I’ve searched the Catechism and Catholic Answers. I’ve only found references to chastity. She says that that isn’t the case here.
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A couple of quick thoughts. Ask her if she would like to marry someone, someday, and if so, would she like that marriage to last a lifetime?

If she is honest, she can’t very well answer that she is hoping for a marriage to break up.

Then follow-up with the point that cohabitation increases the probability the current relationship will break up. It also increases the risk that any eventual marriage to a new, as yet unknown, spouse will also break up.

Chaste or not, there is a seriousness to living together that has a long term impact. If one makes the assumption that your daughter and boyfriend have made a serious emotional comittment to each other (obviously serious enough to defy her parents and live with him), then I am reminded of a quote from Janet Smith:
Most people have been lied to at some point. Most people have made promises, and broken those promises, and had promises made to them, and those promises have been broken. And they’re marrying someone who has lied and made promises and had promises broken, and they don’t trust each other quite as much. They don’t even trust themselves quite as much. “I’ve said these things before, I’ve made these commitments before–can I keep them? He’s said these things before, he’s made these commitments before–can he keep them?”
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As someone who went through a number of “relationships” prior to marriage, one way I put it is each failed relationship left the emotional equivalent of “scar tissue”. It was very difficult to get past the “scar tissue” and learn how to live a fully-committed married life. The doubts that Janet Smith mentions kept arising in the early years of my marriage. Thank God we had the help of the Holy Spirit to make it through.

Also, you asked for Church teaching. If you enter the following search term in google, you get a LOT of Church teaching on the subject: “cohabitation site:usccb.org”. The US Bishop’s conference has 23 documents discussing cohabitation. They are well worth reading.
 
“Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

Any dreams that one has about living with someone as a prelude to marriage should go out the window with that thought.
 
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