A protestant seeking

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cosmicjiujitsu:
why should i become catholic?
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Should? Do you want to become Catholic? It isn’t easy being Catholic you know. It takes a lot of humility, a lot of struggle and after you have humbled yourself and struggled most likely you get to be a ‘little person,’ not a big shot. And then there is the persecution. It isn’t about ‘should’; it is about ‘want.’
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cosmicjiujitsu:
aren’t i already in?
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No.
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cosmicjiujitsu:
i see the fruit of the spirit in my life, i have had a genuine conversion experience where i once lived one way but now i live another.
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The deposit of faith was to the Church. Jesus’s way is the Church’s way. Your way is your way. Conversion is one thing. Commitment is another thing. Catholicism is about relationship, not self-sufficiency.
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cosmicjiujitsu:
i interact with God, hear His voice… etc.
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These are private revelations. Private revelations (which many of us have) need to be discerned by the Church. Why? Because God did not make us self-sufficient. He made us to seek love and to give love. It is not good for man to be alone.
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cosmicjiujitsu:
why change rooms in the house?
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Ah! Change! And the fear thereof. Dunno. What kind of fear is in question? The fear of the Lord? Or the fear of the fear of the Lord?

cosmicjiujitsu said:
(i am a bit optimistic in that i see devoted protestants, catholics, and orthodox all part of the Body).
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Here is a classic example of taking on an advanced topic without having a firm understanding of basics. Salvation and the concept of Invincible Ignorance. Once you are offered the teaching of the Church which Jesus established, then you are no longer invincibly ignorant. You are accountable for your own decision to reject the teaching of the Church which Jesus established in favour of your own personal individual ideas.
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cosmicjiujitsu:
that is my burning question… but that is why i am on the quest i suppose.
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It is not my role to convince you to follow the path on which the Church has shone light. It is up to you entirely. You have free will. So do I. I have chosen. I am Catholic.
 
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cosmicjiujitsu:
thanks for the great replies…

my stuggles with mary are more along the lines of immaculate conception, and no kids after jesus. i j.b.
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As far as the immaculate conception. The common misconception is that some people think we are wrong to say she was born without original sin, but then in the Bible she still calls Christ her savior. This quote is from Catholic.com and I think it sums up well what the point of this belief is.

“Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been “saved” from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.”
 
Dear Ani Ibi,

" Referring to the recognition of the Real Presence in the Body and the Blood as idolatrous is not error; it is blasphemy."
quote, Ani Ibi

Don’t you understand that a person saying that really
believes that offering worship to what that individual
considers just bread, just wine is for him/her idolatry?

They may be convinced that I am offering worship to
a natural substance, which worship should be reserved to God
alone.

They are in error. They may also, in conscience,
be in good faith when this is said. They speak with
the light they have.

They are as horrified by the prospect of idolatry as
I am about the prospect of blashpemy. I’ve seen
enough genuine blasphemy to recognize it when
I see/hear it.

Is there anybody reading this thread with a solid knowledge
of moral theology who can contribute to this
exchange. I’m willing to be proven wrong on my
understanding of this, but I don’t think I am in error
in this instance.

reen12
 
Dear Ani Ibi,

Yes, I’ve seen a bit of that thread. * What I’m looking for is a credentialed moral theologian to weigh in on this point.

Until then, I hold to what I’ve said, and will joyfully retract
my view if a person, as described above, indicates that
I am in error.

Best wishes,
reen12*
 
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cosmicjiujitsu:
i am trying to be as open and honest on the journey as i can. perhaps i am “not in” as heliumspark suggests. perhaps all of my spiritual experiences… conversion, spiritual gifts (tongues, prophecy, other charisms) have all been mistaken (and i am not being sarcastic here).
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“Not in”, but certainly on the right path. I became a protestant before I became a Catholic, too.

As regards the eucharist, a person is certainly not guilty of blashpemy or idolatry if he does not have the intention to commit the offense. However, a grave objective wrong is being done, whether intended or not, when we call Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament a ‘symbol’, and treat Him as such.

People do gravely wrong things all the time without even knowing that they are doing something wrong. That is why there must be a Church that can teach us the truth, so we don’t make those mistakes. Whether we bear the fault for moral offenses or not, they still wreak their harmful effects on us and our world.
 
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cosmicjiujitsu:
again… thanks all… i am compiling a list of books and reading through the sites.

i am trying to be as open and honest on the journey as i can. perhaps i am “not in” as heliumspark suggests. perhaps all of my spiritual experiences… conversion, spiritual gifts (tongues, prophecy, other charisms) have all been mistaken (and i am not being sarcastic here).

but i am on the journey and i am excited to see where it goes… i continue to welcome the replies and discussion here or via E-mail: cosmicjiujitsu@yahoo.com

blessings,
j.b.
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I wouldn’t say you were mistaken… 😦 Quite the contrary! 👍

I honestly believe many protestant’s spiritual experiences are genuined and that they are indeed finding love in the Lord.

You are in communion with the Church, being a Christian, but not in full comnnunion; see the difference? To be fully in communion you would profess the Holy Faith of the Church wholly and entirely. If you can say “I believe” to every dogma and tenets of the Catholic Church, then you will be in full communion, at least in spirit. Receive the rites of initiaition – Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Communion – then you will be trully in full communion with Holy Mother Church
 
cosmic,

take your time.

study the history of the early Church, closer to the Apostles they were.

look at all things in context (a thing that many protestant arguments ignore in folly).

“To be steeped in hostory is to cease to be protestant.” – John Cardinal Newman, a convert from protestantism.
 
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cosmicjiujitsu:
i am trying to be as open and honest on the journey as i can. perhaps i am “not in” as heliumspark suggests. perhaps all of my spiritual experiences… conversion, spiritual gifts (tongues, prophecy, other charisms) have all been mistaken (and i am not being sarcastic here).
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“Mistaken” might be too strong a word. Did they help bring you and hold you to Christ? If so, then they also can be fruit of the Holy Spirit and steps along which He called you to Christ’s door.

Irenicist
 
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Contarini:
Theoretically the full RCIA is for those who are not baptized, and baptized Christians are supposed to be received at a time other than Easter. But in practice this almost never seems to be followed.

Edwin
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My parish had both cathechumans (unbaptized) and candidates (baptized) go through RCIA. We even had some people who were Catholic sit in the classes, because they wanted to learn more.
 
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