The same author (the apostle Paul) who wrote Philippians 2:12 also wrote Phil. 2:13. Paul also wrote: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Eph. 2:8-9. This is in line with what Jesus taught in Jh 15, that our connection must be to Himself and then we will bear fruit (works of loving service and obedience).
Shalom Ron,
I’m curious what brought you to Judism, and what’s you’re goal being on CAF?
Ron, please tolerate my edits of you’re excellent post, but as you know we are limited to space.
In reading all of Eph.,and Rom. as well, it is evident that “works” in many cases refer to “works of the OLD Torah” law, and at times [good] works of the New Covenant. Eph.2:10
"0 For we are his workmanship, **created in Christ Jesus for good works, **which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
So one must read the entire meaasge to gain wisdom and understanding.
The Bible teaches a unified message. Paul did not contradict Jesus Christ, nor did Paul teach one thing in one verse and the opposite in another verse. It is very clear from Scripture that our good works are the evidence that we have received Christ’s gift of salvation. The robe of Christ’s righteousness that justifies us also works in us through the power of the Holy Spirit to produce fruitful obedience (good works). “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10. Paul never supported willful disobedience. We are to choose to receive Christ’s righteousness and choose to be obedient to His will, His commandments as explained in the Moral Law. God looks for fruit in our lives as the evidence that salvation is effective in our lives. It is by the fruit (our obedient works) that we are judged.
Amen! Pat {"I believe!}
So what does Philippians 2:12 mean? Here is the entire verse: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” The first thing we notice is that Paul is writing to converted believers who are obedient. He says they have always obeyed. Always? Clearly “always” began with the time they were converted and were first instructed. The phrase “work out” is from the Greek word katergazomai and means “to carry out to completion.” Paul is exhorting the Philippians to continue to live an obedient, Christian life. This verse is not to be seen as teaching the opposite of the next verse: “For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Phil. 2:13). In verse 13 Paul explains how it is possible to be obedient, as he has instructed in verse 12.
Ron, I’m confused. I agree with what this states, what is the point of difference you’d like to address?
Referring to Matthew 25 and the two groups at the Second Coming of Christ: Again, it is the fruit that God looks for - the obedient good works that are the evidence that salvation has been effective in the life. Jesus taught this same teaching in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” [are law breakers]
Here people are denied entrance into the Kingdom, even though they have done good works: they have prophesied, cast out demons and done many wonders. But they have not obeyed God’s law. There are people who do good works - they look good on the outside - but they disobey the plain teachings of Scripture.
Now I think I get what you’re saying, and again we agree.
Works by themselves, will not assure one access to heaven.
The Catholic Church teaches that we “CANNOT” earn by ourselves, in any way, shape or form, access to heaven.
Salvation is a Gift from God, as is GRACE. BUT they are “gifts with strings attached.”
We must be Baptised [Jn.3:5] we must obey all of the Commandments [Mt.19:16] we must confess our sins [Jn.20:23-24, Mt.16;18-20, Mt.18:18] and we must be charitable.
It is no sigle “thing” or group of “things” that assure heaven, for heaven too is a Gift from God, who however does factor in and make conditional what these verses require, as is His Divine right.
So do we obey God? Take a look at the Moral Law in Exodus 20, 21, 22, and 23. It starts with the Ten Commandments and continues on to the statutes and judgments. By these commandments we will be judged…
Remember, it was the pre-incarnate Christ who spoke the Moral law to the people and to Moses. These precepts lay out God’s law of love - they teach us what it means to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and our neighbor as ourselves. These are as much Christ’s commandments as anything recorded in the Gospels. It seems we have plenty to work on to be obedient to Scripture without adding traditions that oppose Scripture.
Ron, help me out here. Which Traditions are you speaking of?
Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.” (John 14:6). Jesus HAS a way, a truth and a life - we must always be obedient, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to Jesus’ way, truth and life. Jesus’ way, truth and life are laid out in Scripture.
Ron my friend in Christ,
What is you’re understanding of Christ? Who and what is He in you’re understanding?
We are not too far apart at this juncture.
Shalom my friend,
Pat
