A Quaker Understanding...

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Publisher,
So would it be fair to say the Friends follow one aspect of the Trinity namely the Holy Spirit? Since the Spirit seems to be an aspect in the friends website I went to. If thats the case then you don’t believe in being baptized in the traditional way ie with Water and Spirit? How do you test the Spirit?
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
 
Publisher,
I think I’m starting to understand. The Quakers or Friends aren’t quite a religion so much as a peaceful way of life. You don’t take oaths per say save in certain circumstances such as marriage but even that is open to more than just a man and woman, it could be a same sex union as well. It seems to be a peaceful way to live. Not for me persay, but for those that are drawn to it. Catholism ie the universal church is a way of life as well though we have a structure to help guide us along with the Holy Spirirt. The Quakers seem to have adopted Hebrews Chapter 12.14 “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” as a way of life. It’s beautiful in its own way. However, one of the thing where Catholism differs is also found in the New Testament namely Matthew 10.34. “Do not think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come not to bring peace but the sword.” Publisher, our ways are different and similiar.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
 
Being a person of peace doesn’t necessarily mean that God’s will is fulfilled.

Sins are both actions of commission and of omission. Actions we do and actions which we fail to do.

When people continually deflect and defer, the risk is that they stand for nothing and accept everything.
 
gmcbroom said:
Publisher,
So would it be fair to say the Friends follow one aspect of the Trinity namely the Holy Spirit? Since the Spirit seems to be an aspect in the friends website I went to. If thats the case then you don’t believe in being baptized in the traditional way ie with Water and Spirit? How do you test the Spirit?
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say that Friends “follow one aspect of the Trinity”, many of us would not use trinitarian language to describe God. I wouldn’t recite the Creed with conviction…but I can say that I affirm that through Jesus of Nazareth, God lived among us…and He is among us still…it is a “spiritual” baptism that truly cleanses us…a man “can enter the waters of baptism a “dry sinner” and exit a “wet sinner”…and have no inward change in their lives…but NO ONE baptized with the Holy Spirit can remain the same.”

Baptism is a Jewish ritual…Christ fulfilled all ritual requirements. No “ritual” bestows grace…all grace and mercy flows from God through our Lord Jesus Christ…

“Thou shalt not test the Lord your God.”

We would “measure” the work of the Holy Spirit in a pesons life by various means…" 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. "Gal5:22-23.

We also as a community engage in self reflection as a group once a month and examine our lives lived in community. This “self reflection” usually occurs at Meetings for Worship for Business…they are called the “Queries”…they’ve been described as the closest thing to a “creed” Friends have…they don’t state beliefs…they ask questions…questions to search our hearts and devote deeper into this life with God we share.

Some “Queries”

“Do you participate regularly in meetings for business, discharge faithfully your committee responsibilities, and assume your share of financial support of the Meeting?”

“Are love and harmony within the Meeting community fostered by a spirit of open sharing? Do you endeavor to widen your circle of friendships within the Meeting, seeking to know persons of all ages and at all stages of the spiritual journey? Does the Meeting provide for the spiritual refreshment of all members and attenders? Do Friends provide spiritual and practical care for the elderly, the lonely, and others with special needs?”

“Do you make time for meditation, prayer and worship? Do you read the Bible, the writings of Friends, and other inspirational works, seeking new light? Do you regularly seek God’s guidance? Are you open to guidance and support and do you give thanks for them? Do you share your spiritual insights with others and willingly receive from them in turn?”

" Do you live in accordance with your spiritual convictions? Do you seek employment consistent with your beliefs and in service to society? Do you practice simplicity in speech, dress and manner of living, avoiding wasteful consumption? Are you watchful that your possessions do not rule you? Do you strive to be truthful at all times, avoiding judicial oaths?
Do you strive to develop your physical, emotional and mental capacities toward reaching your Divinely given potential? Do you cultivate healthful and moderate habits, avoiding the hazards of drugs, intoxicants, and over-indulgence generally? Do you try to direct such emotions as anger and fear in creative ways? "
Quaker Queries

The Queries are a device used within the Society of Friends for prompting both corporate and individual self-examination. They have varied through time and from Yearly Meeting to Yearly Meeting, reflecting current regional insights as to the best way for Meetings and individual Friends to live their spiritual and temporal lives. It is the practice in most Monthly Meetings to read and consider a query at each meeting for business. We urge consideration of these queries by all Friends.

**And one of the most pertinent…at least IMO…

"Do you respect that of God in every person? Do you search yourself for and strive to eliminate prejudices such as those related to race, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation and economic condition? In what ways do you accept and appreciate differences among your friends and associates? Do you avoid exploiting or manipulating others to accomplish ends, however worthy? "**

There are many others…this is how we govern ourselves…we seek Truth in all things…especially within ourselves. And we share and grow collectively…enriched by others “Experience with God”…perhaps opening a new insight into the Mind of the Eternal…“Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus…”

How do we measure who is “baptized in the Spirit”? Is Christ living through them within the life of the Meeting…how do you determine if someone truly has been “baptized in newness of life”? My “querie” would be…Do they live in such a way that of God is manifest in their lives and community?" How one answers that question…is satisfactory enough for me to decide if one follows the Life of the Spirit or not…we seek a personal holiness and righteousness that is not just “imputed” but “imparted” as well…we ask each other lots of questions.🙂
 
gmcbroom said:
Publisher,
I think I’m starting to understand. The Quakers or Friends aren’t quite a religion so much as a peaceful way of life. You don’t take oaths per say save in certain circumstances such as marriage but even that is open to more than just a man and woman, it could be a same sex union as well. It seems to be a peaceful way to live. Not for me persay, but for those that are drawn to it. Catholism ie the universal church is a way of life as well though we have a structure to help guide us along with the Holy Spirirt. The Quakers seem to have adopted Hebrews Chapter 12.14 “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” as a way of life. It’s beautiful in its own way. However, one of the thing where Catholism differs is also found in the New Testament namely Matthew 10.34. “Do not think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come not to bring peace but the sword.” Publisher, our ways are different and similiar.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Click to expand...
Peace to you friend.
 
Barbkw said:
Being a person of peace doesn’t necessarily mean that God’s will is fulfilled.

Sins are both actions of commission and of omission. Actions we do and actions which we fail to do.

When people continually deflect and defer, the risk is that they stand for nothing and accept everything.
Click to expand...
Thankfully neither you nor I fit into that catagory. 🙂
 
😊
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Publisher:
Thankfully neither you nor I fit into that catagory. 🙂
 
gmcbroom said:
Publisher,
I think I’m starting to understand. The Quakers or Friends aren’t quite a religion so much as a peaceful way of life. You don’t take oaths per say save in certain circumstances such as marriage but even that is open to more than just a man and woman, it could be a same sex union as well. It seems to be a peaceful way to live. Not for me persay, but for those that are drawn to it. Catholism ie the universal church is a way of life as well though we have a structure to help guide us along with the Holy Spirirt. The Quakers seem to have adopted Hebrews Chapter 12.14 “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” as a way of life. It’s beautiful in its own way. However, one of the thing where Catholism differs is also found in the New Testament namely Matthew 10.34. “Do not think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come not to bring peace but the sword.” Publisher, our ways are different and similiar.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
Click to expand...
We do not see a separation between the secular and the religious…there is not one standard of living…we need to integrate our belief in the Reign of God in our world…each of us living by the principles of the Kingdom of God and seeking to 'love our neighbor as ourselves"…all of these endeavors are rooted and grounded in our daily lives…“we are the only hands with which He has to work, the only feet with which He has to go, the only voice with which He has to speak, the only heart with which He has to love, we are His Body in this world.”
 
Publisher said:
We do not see a separation between the secular and the religious…there is not one standard of living…we need to integrate our belief in the Reign of God in our world…"
Click to expand...
When homosexual acts are viewed holy and pleasing to God, a community’s accepted beliefs have replaced the Word of God.

It’s disturbing, your continual use of Scripture to justify homosexual acts. Particularly when you believe the great majority of Scripture is myth and fable - including but not limited to - Jesus’ incarnation.
 
Barbkw said:
When homosexual acts are viewed holy and pleasing to God, a community’s accepted beliefs have replaced the Word of God.

It’s disturbing, your continual use of Scripture to justify homosexual acts. Particularly when you believe the great majority of Scripture is myth and fable - including but not limited to - Jesus’ incarnation.
Click to expand...
Disturbing? Does my view of scripture remove from it the Truth you understand?

Where did I say “Jesus incarnation is a myth or fable?”

To me what is “disturbing” is the continuous misrepresentation of “what I believe” and what “I’ve said”.

Peace to you friend.
 
Are you two people posting under one name?

If you don’t recall our earlier conversation concerning your disbelief in “virgin births, walking on water, and water turning to wine” then scroll up and reread what you wrote.

Post #47 if you’re having difficulty.
 
Barbkw said:
Are you two people posting under one name?

If you don’t recall our earlier conversation concerning your disbelief in “virgin births, walking on water, and water turning to wine” then scroll up and reread what you wrote.
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Ahhh…sarcasm does not suit you.

You believe that unless I accept “virgin births” and “walking on water” and “turning water into wine”…that I by default deny that Jesus of Nazareth was not somehow God’s revelation to humanity?

Hmmm…Where again did I deny Jesus incarnation?
 
Publisher said:
Ahhh…sarcasm does not suit you.

You believe that unless I accept “virgin births” and “walking on water” and “turning water into wine”…that I by default deny that Jesus of Nazareth was not somehow God’s revelation to humanity?

Hmmm…Where again did I deny Jesus incarnation?
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I wasn’t being sarcastic. Seriously, do two people post under your name?

Please refer to your Post #47.

Perhaps coming here and posting is some big joke for you.
 
Publisher,
I understand where you say ,“Thou shall not test the Lord thy God.” However, due to the heresies of the day around 90 A.D. and beyond, we’re actually told too. There are even 3 distinct ways to test them.
  1. 1 John 4.2&3 (paraphrased): Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
  2. Matthew 7.16-20 (paraphrased): By their fruit you will recognize them.
  3. 2 Peter 3. 3-7 (paraphrased): First of all you must understand scoffers will come scoffing and following their own evil desires. Say,“Where is this coming he promised?” Ever since our fathers died everything goes on as it has in the beginning of creation. But they deliberately forgot that long ago the world was formed out of water and by water. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgememt.
The test Jesus recommended takes time and is more a test of how that prophet lives their life if its of God he/she wouldn’t be doing anything immoral.
Now obviously if there are Christian Friends they can and should use that as its biblical. For those friends of different faiths though… you see the danger I trust.
Peace be with you.
gmcbroom
 
Barbkw said:
I wasn’t being sarcastic. Seriously, do two people post under your name?

Please refer to your Post #47.

Perhaps coming here and posting is some big joke for you.
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Please explain this line of your post bolded above…is this a rhetorical question or statement?

OK…here is the post…where do I deny the incarnation?

"I believe that God entered our humanity in the man Jesus of Nazareth. In this man God was made known in our world. Those that came to believe in him understood that in some way God was in their midst.**

God doesn’t need “virgin births” to enter our world…the stories in Matthew and Luke teach a deep truth…God entered our world in the life of Jesus of Nazareth.**

If you find comfort in those stories and they inspire you to love your neighbor, care for the destitute, the lonely, the sick. Care for those around you with a deep devoted love and humanity…I say great…they do not inspire me in that way.

There are Friends who do beleive as you do…but it is not a requirement"
 
I agree with Jharek.

I do not consider Publisher in any sense a Christian, but he is (IMO) a person of principle, none the less.

GKC
 
Jharek and GKC…thank you both for your words.

Peace to you.
 
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