A question about Aaron and the Golden Calf?

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Hear dear Angel is the reason and it’s SCARRY!:eek:

In every age, udas to Luther, the innovators of Vatican II, are of the same ilk, Pius Xth. followers, and not a few “catholic” theologians and universities as well as ALL protestant founders and a GREAT many of there current leaders have in common an enormous PRIDE,

Satans favorite and most utilized tool…

They actually beliefe that they do Know More or Do know Better that God, the Bible, the Church Fathers, the Pope and everyone elase who does not agree with them. That is why we MUST know our faith, live it publuically, and share and defend it when God gives us the opportunity to do so.

Always ask if you don’t know! ya did good!👍

God Bless you,
Pat
Are you suggesting somewhere else within the church you’ll find a different interpretation? and if so how do you answer the questions Contarini posed?
 
As an aside:

The Exodus account does speak of the plural: “make us 'elohim that they go before our faces (yelechu le’faneinu)…these are ('elleh) your 'elohim, Israel.” Again, the problem here is, there is only one idol in the story, which makes the reference to the plural rather odd. As is noted, people have noted similarities between the Exodus story and that of Jeroboam (where there are two calves, thus making the plural reference natural): hence, some people have proposed that the Exodus account was actually inspired by that of Jeroboam rather than the other way around.

However, there is also the possibility that it refers to the Calf and someone else (say, Aaron), nor does it consider that Jeroboam in the story may have been pointing to a single calf as well (he after all built two sanctuaries and two calves, so he may have installed one idol in each). Also, there are apparently instances when could be used with a plural verb*'elohim* and yet be more correctly understood to be a majestic plural.
 
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “translucid.” If you mean that you think Aaron was simply lying, that doesn’t make sense, because he isn’t just saying this to Moses–he says this to the people as a public announcement of what they are going to do.
Edwin, Exodus 25 through 31 depicts the format for woship–Aaron is Moses right-hand man… which means that he is, above all other people, nearest to the fountain of knowledge… Aaron could not have read “golden-calf” or “orgies” in any of the prescriptions. Also, the fact that the image of the calf was created (any one familiar with molten metal would know) necesitates a mold… this means that some thought was put into what image they wanted to create (though I am not a deist, I am pretty sure that a young bull is a likely candite for pagan worship); further, from their expressions about Moses, I doubt that Yahweh God was in their minds!
I suppose it’s possible that Aaron intended the calf as an image of YHWH, and/or that he was trying to turn the people’s desire for an idol into what he thought would be a more acceptable form.
I think that regret is more probable… did Aaron fear for his life? It could very well be that he felt pressured into giving the people what they demanded… only after the fact does Aaron make a weak gesture where he does not impose himself over the people but rather formulates an opinion… “hey, guys, let’s…”
No one has suggested that they were worshiping YHWH as prescribed in the Torah. The argument is that they claimed to be worshiping YHWH but were setting up an idol as an image of YHWH.
But that’s just it… the text does not support that at all… there’s no reverence for Yahweh nor his chosen servant, Moses; Israel talks Moses down… “this man Moses…” if you were my boss and commissioned me to do something the rest of your employees may not like me or even tolerate me, but they would respect my possition as your emissary–to do otherwise would demonstrate contempt for your leadership! The people show such contempt!
I wonder how much of the resistance to this idea is due to Catholic worry about the Protestant claim that Catholics are idolaters worshiping God wrongly?

I certainly believe nothing of the sort–I think that Catholic practices are abundantly justified by the Incarnation and are in no way setting up idolatrous representations of God. I’m speaking of orthodox Catholicism, of course–syncretistic folk religion often does fall into precisely the kind of idolatry under discussion here.

Edwin
Though it is the worng anti-Catholic belief, I can assure you that, at least from my part, I do not fear Catholic Teaching since it is based on both the Written and Oral Traditions (Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition). Holding a different opinion does not mean that I denounce the Pope, the Vatican, or the local Bishops and Priests. If I were to teach something like “sola Scriptura” or “always saved,” then I would be setting a different theological path for myself and those who would fallow me–fyi: I reject both examples!

…as far as Orthodox/Eastern Catholic/Christian belief… I am not familiar with them so I cannot offer an opion. I do know that they use icons extensively… but I don’t know much else.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hear dear Angel is the reason and it’s SCARRY!:eek:

In every age, udas to Luther, the innovators of Vatican II, are of the same ilk, Pius Xth. followers, and not a few “catholic” theologians and universities as well as ALL protestant founders and a GREAT many of there current leaders have in common an enormous PRIDE,

Satans favorite and most utilized tool…

They actually beliefe that they do Know More or Do know Better that God, the Bible, the Church Fathers, the Pope and everyone elase who does not agree with them. That is why we MUST know our faith, live it publuically, and share and defend it when God gives us the opportunity to do so.

Always ask if you don’t know! ya did good!👍

God Bless you,
Pat
I cuncur, Pat!

…it is really scary since that’s the original sin that cost Lucifer his place in the Presence of God… pride took him down and we follow suit when we place ouselves above God!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
As an aside:

The Exodus account does speak of the plural: “make us 'elohim that they go before our faces (yelechu le’faneinu)…these are ('elleh) your 'elohim, Israel.” Again, the problem here is, there is only one idol in the story, which makes the reference to the plural rather odd … some people have proposed that the Exodus account was actually inspired by that of Jeroboam rather than the other way around.
There is a major difference in interpretation; Moses, everyone would assume, came before Jeroboam. Although a particular book might not be chronological in its internal structure – none the less, people know which parts of the Law are “older” and more venerable.

For this reason, Jeroboam, is nowhere near the same as Aaron; For Jeroboam already had the old testament example of Aaron. To reverse the two is to refuse the interpretation that the authors necessarily intended in organizing the scripture in the way they did. (Even if JEDP theory…)

“odd” is true; but that means one needs to look closer, and listen carefully for other “odd” things;
For example – the Israelites say “this man Moses” – instead of just “Moses”; In contrast they are talking about “gods” (eloh-`m). It seems clear that they want Moses to be demoted for God had already said to Moses:

(DRV)
Exodu 4:15 Speak to him, and put my words in his mouth: and I will be in thy mouth, and in his month, and will shew you what you must do.
Exodu 4:16 He shall speak in thy stead to the people, and shall be thy mouth: but thou shalt be to him in those things that pertain to God.

Literally Exodu 4:16: LXX
Exodu 4:16 και αυτος σοι προσλαλησει προς τον λαον και αυτος εσται σου στομα συ δε αυτω εσητα προς τον θεον

It’s a double “The” structure “You, to him, are THE pro the God”; which is closer to (in English idiom), “The pro, * the God”. This particular passage is where Moses is going into Egypt again – and is to face Pharaoh in a “showdown”. Moses is the “God” leader – eg: like Pharaoh (his equal).

Stop for a moment, and think about Moses’ history in Egypt:

The Egyptian God at this time is often thought to be “Ra” – and their Pharaoh is sometimes thought to be “Ramses the ???” – So, Moses, who was adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter is given an Egyptian name; and some historical evidence suggests that he was originally called “Ramses” in his adopted “grand-father’s” honor; but as is traditional in Egypt, when a man turns against the ruler – his name is partially struck out; Hence Ramses would become mses the “outcast” son;

Now Hebrew scriptures did not originally contain vowels – and Moses is just משה which has “shin” suggesting a sound more like “Ramshee” than “Moses”; In every way, the scriptures support the context of Pharaoh being considered equal to a God – and Moses to be a prince and potential Pharaoh over Egyptian Israel;

The statement to Aaron takes on new meaning in this context – “Moses is just a man”, now you are the “heir” apparent (God) to US.
In other words, their hearts were turning back to the GOVERNING style of Egypt.
Much of the rest of the comments that scripture makes about the events of the Exodus, later, indicate this to be precisely the repetitive sin of the people in the desert; desiring the “flesh” pots of Egypt – is to desire Egyptian sacrifices.

Regarding the Bull – I will need to reiterate, by Jeroboam’s time – it was clearly known that CHERUBIM were the ones the Hebrew God rode on; Bulls belong to “Bashan” – a pagan cult in the general area of the desert and promised land. It is true that bulls are a sign of “strength” – but they aren’t the strongest; The ox is.
And the ox is the sign of the strength of the twelve tribes:

1King 7:25 And [the sea, bronze bowl] it stood upon twelve oxen, of which three looked towards the north, and three towards the west, and three towards the south, and three towards the east: and the sea was above upon them, and their hinder parts were all hid within.

Jeroboam, by switching to the “bull”, was definitely talking apostasy; for it is neither the strength of Israel – nor the distinctive carrier of God – and was already condemned in the time of Aaron.
However, there is also the possibility that it refers to the Calf and
someone else (say, Aaron), nor does it consider that Jeroboam in the story may have been pointing to a single calf as well (he after all built two sanctuaries and two calves, so he may have installed one idol in each). Also, there are apparently instances when 'elohim could be used with a plural verb and yet be more correctly understood to be a majestic plural.Agreed, but It is also a name without power; YHWH was the personal name to which God responded; and Elohim is the name given to all other “Gods”. So although I admit it can be understood to be a majestic plural – it may also be mis-understood to be other Gods – where “YHWH” can not; Again, the text says that Aaron specified “YHWH” but the people rose up to “MOCK”. Mocking isn’t playing nicely … and an uprising goes along with mockery;

I think that English translations of these passages leave people with an improperly down-played tone in places where the original texts are sporting and quite garish.

In order to hold the reversal argument – you will need to show (reasonably) that much of the history of the old testament has been altered from an original form; I don’t think archeology warrants such a claim; and textual criticism requires a debate – at least – before acceptance for mistakes are easy to make and pride is rampant.*
 
P.S. Patrick,

I enjoyed the photos; and I know you aren’t holding the reversal – but just noting other people’s opinions…
 
Regarding the Bull – I will need to reiterate, by Jeroboam’s time – it was clearly known that CHERUBIM were the ones the Hebrew God rode on; Bulls belong to “Bashan” – a pagan cult in the general area of the desert and promised land. It is true that bulls are a sign of “strength” – but they aren’t the strongest; The ox is.
And the ox is the sign of the strength of the twelve tribes:

1King 7:25 And [the sea, bronze bowl] it stood upon twelve oxen, of which three looked towards the north, and three towards the west, and three towards the south, and three towards the east: and the sea was above upon them, and their hinder parts were all hid within.

Jeroboam, by switching to the “bull”, was definitely talking apostasy; for it is neither the strength of Israel – nor the distinctive carrier of God – and was already condemned in the time of Aaron.
Thanks for the notation… I remembered something related to bulls and idolatry but just wasn’t sure!
In order to hold the reversal argument – you will need to show (reasonably) that much of the history of the old testament has been altered from an original form; I don’t think archeology warrants such a claim; and textual criticism requires a debate – at least – before acceptance for mistakes are easy to make and pride is rampant.
…in my pedestrian logic I find that it would be a tremendous grasping since Moses existed in an era prior to the first king of Israel and Jeroboam is several generations removed from Saul–unless the proposal intimates that the scrolls were written en masse instead of periodically.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
P.S. Patrick,

I enjoyed the photos; and I know you aren’t holding the reversal – but just noting other people’s opinions…
You’re welcome. Indeed I don’t: the idea actually rests on the assumption that Exodus was written/redacted much later (say, during the post-Exilic period). That theory postulates that the Aaronic golden calf account was perhaps originally a positive northern legend which described the origin of (one of) Jeroboam’s calves - which was originally supposed to have been Yhwistic cultic images. With the passage of time and the eventual destruction of the Northern kingdom however these images degenerated into mere fetishes or were regarded as such. The northern story was then recast in a negative light; it is this version which ended up being included in Exodus. This is sometimes tied up with the the Four Document hypothesis: the author of the story is now the so-called Elohist source, which were supposed to be Levites from the North. Critical of both the northern bull cult (since according to 1 Kings Jeroboam appointed non-Levites as priests) and the Aaronic priesthood of the Jerusalem cult down south, they brought with them a story about a calf with Aaron as the culprit!
 
Wow, my reply has magically disappeared during posting! :bigyikes:
Yes, I know the feeling… 😦
Actually Aaron’s and Jeroboam’s proclamation are exactly similar save for a single word:
Hopefully, I’ve clarified what I meant by subtle difference, eg: not in wording – but accountability due to history.
Which was kind of Aaron’s (rather lame) excuse to Moses.
I agree. The excuse was lame.
and I cast it into the fire, and this calf cometh out.'Again there was a later Jewish legend which says that when Aaron threw the gold into the fire, a living calf literally sprang out of it! :eek:
I am not so sure it is just legend; perhaps it is an interpretation that grew out of the wording of Scripture. The word used for “mold” in Greek is precisely the one used of God when forming the “earth” into Adam, etc. When God “forms” something – it is living, but when man does it – nothing comes to life. (poourly stated, since we have entered an era of Genetic engineering…).
Code:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **patrick457**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6649494#post6649494)                 
             *Now we go to the calf itself.  According to Exodus 32 it was made of gold and fashioned with an  engraving tool. Some think that the calf was 100% gold, ...  Biblical account notes that an angry Moses burned the  statue and pulverized it - neither of which would have been possible  with pure gold. It thus could be more probable ... it was probably also made of other materials -  such as clay or wood or stone ...
http://www.bible-archaeology.info/images/gold_leaf_bull_phoenician.jpg*
A bronze bull statuette covered in gold leaf, from a Phoenician temple at Byblos.
There are those who point out that there is also no indication in the text that Aaron melted all the golden earrings either; rather, the text just reads "and he received from their hand, …
Now as for the term massekah, another theory proposes that the word should be understood in its other sense of ‘libation’ (massekah is derived from the root nsk ‘to pour’): thus, Aaron made a ‘calf of libation’: i.e. the Israelites performed a libation of sorts over the golden calf in their worship.
As I noted, the word used in Greek for “formed” is the same as that which is used of God in Genesis; but God is not said/thought to have used a “tool” in forming the man (at least in English) – and I have never heard such an interpretation;

Traditional Iron working, and I think gold, use a metal drain plug on the melting pot (or kiln/crucible) – and when the metal becomes molten, the drain plug also melts which effectively “opens” the hole and allows the metal to flow into the mold underneath it. No active lifting of the crucible is required to pour in that case – but it is still traditionally called a “pour”.

Let’s see; My Hebrew vocabulary is limited; but the passages are…

Genes 2:7 ו-ייצר יהוה אלהים את-האדם עפר מנ-האדמה .
Genes 2:7 And- the Lord God (YHWH elohym) -formed the-man (HAlDaM) of the slime of the earth …

Exodu 32:4 … ו-יקח מידם ו-יצר את-ו בחרט ו-יעשהו עגל מסכה.
Exodu 32:4 And-he-received it at their hand, and-fashioned it with a graving tool, and-made-it a calf poured/molten;

Exodu 32:24 ו-אמר ל-הם למי זהב התפרקו ו-יתנו-לי ו-אשלכהו באש ו-יצא ה-עגל הזה.
Exodu 32:24 And-said to-them: Which of you hath any gold? and they took and brought it to me; and-I-cast it into the fire, and this-calf came out.

There doesn’t appear to be any relationship between the verb “I-cast” and the verb “and-made-it” so Aaron’s later story is somewhat different; but the similarity between Genesis 2:7 and Exodus 32:4 that I see in the Greek is borne out in the Hebrew; for the word “forming/fashioning/molding” man in Genesis 2:7 (I think? is) ייצר and the verb in Exodus 32:4 is: יצר

I might be mistaken on grammar, as this is only a first viewing and my Hebrew is poor – but I seem to recal that “pa’al” verbs are intensified by adding a yod second letter; (See it in Genesis 2:7?) and often means “caused”.

Exodus 32:4 doesn’t have a ’ (yod) as a second letter; And that suggests God “caused” the man to be formed, but Aaron’s action is more passive and might not be “causing” it to happen. Additionally, your mention of “hands” of the people appears in both the Greek and the Hebrew (If I understood you correctly); So Aaron is acting “like” God – but the peculiar “hands” are the peoples… ??

What specific word makes you think Aaron used an active “Graving” tool, as opposed to a passive one ( a mold? ).
 
I agree. The excuse was lame.

I am not so sure it is just legend; perhaps it is an interpretation that grew out of the wording of Scripture. The word used for “mold” in Greek is precisely the one used of God when forming the “earth” into Adam, etc. When God “forms” something – it is living, but when man does it – nothing comes to life. (poourly stated, since we have entered an era of Genetic engineering…).
That legend does not seem to mention a mold; instead it kind of implies that all the melted gold and silver transformed into a living golden calf when Aaron accidentally threw that miraculous silver leaf into the fire. Ironically, this story redeems Aaron in that his poor excuse to Moses (that a calf ‘came out’ of the fire when he threw the gold into it) actually happened literally!
 
Because the OT is very clear that making an image of YHWH is forbidden. By making such an image, the people were in effect turning Him into “another God,” projecting their cultural understanding of strength and fertility onto Him.
Hmm… OK; but they might also be trying to control YHWH by making a statue to “contain” him. There is an opinion among many ancient cultures that a name, carving, (vodoo) doll, etc. gives one power over another; For example, the Native Americans often didn’t want their picture taken when they were looking “at” the camera – for the photograph where the eyes “stare” at you from the picture are eerie and invoke a feeling of “presence”. The N.A. thought that somehow, the camera could “grab” their soul and that after death their soul would not be free if they were looking at the camera… This thought is clearly an emotional inference and predisposition to what “presence” means; It can be good or bad depending on whether or not someone wanted their photograph taken…
I think it’s rather odd, and unfortunate, that you are so quick to condemn the opinions of scholars of your own Church whose work was approved by your own bishops. Of course they may be wrong, but your response shows that you haven’t thought very hard about the matter, since the response I gave above is a fairly obvious one.
I find fault with the footnotes of the NAB quite often; and I really wonder why such a hypothetical conjecture is made in the footnotes.
If the golden calf was not an image of YHWH, you have to explain the significant distinction made in 1-2 Kings between the golden-calf worship of Jeroboam and all his successors as kings of the Northern Kingdom, and the worship of Ba’al officially introduced by Ahab.
I think my comments to patrick457 may explain the significance. But, Ba’al’ was present even in the time of Aaron. His consort is “Astarthe” coming from (Astral=stars); There are many “Ba’als” of different characteristics – Moloch being the Ba’al of child sacrifice. Ba’al, I think Scott Hahn mentioned, means “Lord it over” so isn’t exactly the “name” of a God – but of a whole pantheon of them…
The most reasonable explanation, it seems to me, is that the golden calf was an idolatrous way of worshiping YHWH–seriously wrong, but not on the same level as actually abandoning YHWH for another god.
The “bull” at the time of Aaron is ambiguous but does suggest abandonment of YHWH in favor of another God found in the promised land who “called” them; Travelling Gods were really not found in ancient religions so YHWH’s travel from Palestine to Egypt and back are confusing to their simplistic ideas; they expected a God to rule (and stay put) in a land – so naturally, if they were in a land – that land’s Gods are to be thanked…

Here’s the footnote again:

They:
  • [32:4–5] Who brought you…a feast of the LORD: it seems that the golden calf was intended as an image, not of another god, but of the Lord, whose strength was symbolized by the strength of a young bull. The Israelites, however, had been forbidden to represent the Lord under any visible form. Cf. 20:4. In the tenth century Jeroboam made golden calves for the shrines at Bethel and Dan, presumably to function as thrones for the Lord as the ark did in Jerusalem (see 1 Kgs 12:27–30).
It leaves the final impression, if one knows the sin of Jeroboam, that statuary is simply banned altogether. An editor should have had some helpful hints if there were 100+ scholars doing the NAB!

I am really just epitomizing the thread, but I would prefer at least part of a footnote in the following vein, as it is more useful for study.

*[32:4-5] Who brought you…a feast of the LORD: Icons and statuary of creatures surrounding YHWH have always been included centrally in worship; In this particular passage there is some ambiguity between Aaron’s wanting to worship the LORD (YHWH) by name with a statue present, and the unknown motives of Israelites proposing a bull; but the schism climaxes in a up-rising of people making a mockery out of Aaron’s YHWH, and thus Aaron. (32:6) Whether the bull represents “strength” of a God, or an iconic creature for the chariot of God, or as a response to perceived abandonment by Moses in favor a local diety is unknown (cf: bulls and astral/stars of Basan Deut 1:4,3:1, mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm, Num 21:33 ). What is clear is that God’s condemnation goes /beyond the making of the statue, and includes charges equivalent to fornication/adultery/idolatry (Ex 32:8, Amos 5:25-26, Num 14:33) with a foreign God. The first commandment, that they broke, is explained in terms of God having not shown a preferred shape for himself but only of his angels: Deute 4:12 & 19; and does not apply to things which have been seen. cf: John 14:9.
 
Hmm… OK; but they might also be trying to control YHWH by making a statue to “contain” him. There is an opinion among many ancient cultures that a name, carving, (vodoo) doll, etc. gives one power over another; For example, the Native Americans often didn’t want their picture taken when they were looking “at” the camera – for the photograph where the eyes “stare” at you from the picture are eerie and invoke a feeling of “presence”. The N.A. thought that somehow, the camera could “grab” their soul and that after death their soul would not be free if they were looking at the camera… This thought is clearly an emotional inference and predisposition to what “presence” means; It can be good or bad depending on whether or not someone wanted their photograph taken…
That was actually a widespread superstition
I think my comments to patrick457 may explain the significance. But, Ba’al’ was present even in the time of Aaron. His consort is “Astarthe” coming from (Astral=stars); There are many “Ba’als” of different characteristics – Moloch being the Ba’al of child sacrifice. Ba’al, I think Scott Hahn mentioned, means “Lord it over” so isn’t exactly the “name” of a God – but of a whole pantheon of them…
Ba’al is as you mention actually a generic Northwest Semitic honorific for any god in general (cf. the Akkadian bel) or even to high-ranking human officials. Case in point: the Canaanite storm god Hadad son of El, the Phoenician Melqart god of Tyre (also reckoned to be a son of El), the supreme god of the Carthaginians Ba’al Hammon, or even the cultic images of the local village gods can all be called ba’al. In fact it does seem possible that earlier in Israelite history YHWH was also applied this title; however, this usage later came to be increasingly frowned upon due to its association with pagan deities. “And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more.
 
I think my comments to patrick457 may explain the significance. But, Ba’al’ was present even in the time of Aaron. His consort is “Astarthe” coming from (Astral=stars); There are many “Ba’als” of different characteristics – Moloch being the Ba’al of child sacrifice. Ba’al, I think Scott Hahn mentioned, means “Lord it over” so isn’t exactly the “name” of a God – but of a whole pantheon of them…
Ba’al is as you mention actually a generic Northwest Semitic honorific for any god in general (cf. the Akkadian bel) or even to high-ranking human officials. Case in point: the Canaanite storm god Hadad son of El, the Phoenician Melqart god of Tyre (also reckoned to be a son of El), the supreme god of the Carthaginians Ba’al Hammon, or even the cultic images of the local village gods can all be called ba’al. In fact it does seem possible that earlier in Israelite history YHWH was also applied this honorific title; however, this usage later came to be increasingly frowned upon due to its association with other deities. “And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more.
 
A little historical explanation is in order here I believe.

Canaanite religion, practiced by the various peoples in the Levant, shows a strong influence by Egyptian and Mesopatamian religious practices. Like other ANE cultures the Canaanites were generally polytheistic, but in some cases were monolastric (i.e. recognizing the existence of many gods but choosing to worship only one deity). Different subgroups of a given community typically focused worship on local divinities, say a family to the ancestral spirits and the gods of the household, while acknowledging higher deities such as El and Hadad. Kings, as the head of the state, played an important ritualistic role as in other cultures and in some ceremonial occasions may have even been considered gods. At the center of it lies the royal concern for religious and political legitimacy and the imposition of a divinely ordained legal structure, as well as the peasant emphasis on men, livestock and crops and the fertility thereof.

As is common in many mythologies, a lot of details and information about the pantheon and specific gods are inconsistent and sometimes even contradictory, but at the top of the Canaanite divine clan is generally reckoned El (Ilu), aka El Elyon, husband of Asherah and the father of gods and men. Three of his seventy divine children - the 'elohim - were Hadad, god of the storms, Yam, god of the sea, and Mot, god of death. El and Asherah were at first the primary gods (and continued to be so nominally), but Hadad later rose up in popularity while El’s gradually eroded as time went on, to the point that Asherah became paired with Hadad and he had a story about him drunkenly falling in his own dung while throwing a party for the young gods!

According to the Baal cycle, El chose Yam as his successor but the latter proved to be much of a tyrant. Hadad, the rival claimant, with the aid of magic weapons made by Kothar-wa-Khasis (‘Skillful and Wise’; the god of craftsmanship) manages to defeat his brother, thus gaining his position as king of the gods, holding a great feast. He however gets drunk with power and refuses to pay tribute to Mot, who decides to put Hadad in his place. Mot eats the frightened Hadad, El mourns, and the gods try to decide who will be on the throne next. Hadad’s sister-lover, the war goddess Anat finds Mot, demands Hadad back, and violently overkills Mot. Hadad is soon found to be alive, but Mot also got better, complaining of Hadad’s treatment of him. The two fight, only to be stopped by Shapash (goddess of the sun). Mot, finding that challenging Hadad is futile now that the latter has the backing of El, submits, and Hadad regains his kingship.
 
Ba’al is as you mention actually a generic Northwest Semitic honorific for any god in general (cf. the Akkadian bel) or even to high-ranking human officials. Case in point: the Canaanite storm god Hadad son of El, the Phoenician Melqart god of Tyre (also reckoned to be a son of El), the supreme god of the Carthaginians Ba’al Hammon, or even the cultic images of the local village gods can all be called ba’al.** In fact it does seem possible that earlier in Israelite history YHWH was also applied this honorific title**; however, this usage later came to be increasingly frowned upon due to its association with other deities. “And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more.
Correct, it is possible – conjecturally, but we have no clear example of it. That is what my minor complaint against the NAB footnote is about. They have inserted a conjectural claim in a place where it allows non-catholic sects to point to “error” (eg: the Honor of the later king is really apostacy…?! and the motives are clearly set out in the text…) which calls the rest of the footnote into question.

I don’t think Baal is really a title of honor; but of power. It characterizes God as a “lord it over” type of God – which is not how YHWH reveals himself for he is more discerning of a person’s heart than a mere “lord it over” God is. This is the thrust of the NT understanding given about him that is ROOTED solidly in the OT: eg: Jerim 34:9-13; esp 13. and Matth 20:25.

The footnote confounds the definitive NT revelation of God with mis-interpretations that some but not all Jews had about what kind of God YHWH was during periods of sin against YHWH. I would be happy to accept that later redactors emphasized the lessons of the earlier misconduct; but I don’t find enough evidence to reverse the meaning of history as laid out in scripture to a mere rivalry of later sects. Either God is or isn’t a “Lord it over them” type of God.
 
Correct, it is possible – conjecturally, but we have no clear example of it. That is what my minor complaint against the NAB footnote is about. They have inserted a conjectural claim in a place where it allows non-catholic sects to point to “error” (eg: the Honor of the later king is really apostacy…?! and the motives are clearly set out in the text…) which calls the rest of the footnote into question.

I don’t think Baal is really a title of honor; but of power. It characterizes God as a “lord it over” type of God – which is not how YHWH reveals himself for he is more discerning of a person’s heart than a mere “lord it over” God is. This is the thrust of the NT understanding given about him that is ROOTED solidly in the OT: eg: Jerim 34:9-13; esp 13. and Matth 20:25.

The footnote confounds the definitive NT revelation of God with mis-interpretations that some but not all Jews had about what kind of God YHWH was during periods of sin against YHWH. I would be happy to accept that later redactors emphasized the lessons of the earlier misconduct; but I don’t find enough evidence to reverse the meaning of history as laid out in scripture to a mere rivalry of later sects. Either God is or isn’t a “Lord it over them” type of God.
Well, that quote from Hosea I provided might imply it IMO.
 
Well, that quote from Hosea I provided might imply it IMO.
I must have missed that; Did it get deleted?
I did a quick search for Hosea and it didn’t come up.
And lest I sound snippish …I really have enjoyed your perspective and conversation.
🙂

Your sharing of knowledge is refreshing.
 
I must have missed that; Did it get deleted?
I did a quick search for Hosea and it didn’t come up.
And lest I sound snippish …I really have enjoyed your perspective and conversation.
🙂

Your sharing of knowledge is refreshing.
Thanks.

No, it didn’t get deleted; you can see it in the other post you replied to. Here it is again: (Hosea 2:16-20)

And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more. And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety. And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the Lord.
 
Thanks.

No, it didn’t get deleted; you can see it in the other post you replied to. Here it is again: (Hosea 2:16-20)
And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more. And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety. And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the Lord.
🙂 Which explains why searching for “Hosea” didn’t show it… So, that’s where that came from…

Your brother in Christ,
–Andrew.
 
I have been looking into the question on this post and although I have not had time to read all the posts on the religions of Canaan, I wanted to add:

Aaron was from the tribe of Levi, and since all the Levites repented, he would have been one. Hence, he was not also punished for his participation in the Golden Calf sin.
 
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