A Question about Confession

[JamesTheJust]

But are auricular confession, and formal absolution at the hands of a priest absolutely required to keep a dying person from leaving this earth in a state of mortal sin?

I think that’s the real question here.

And what’s an act of perfect contrition?

Suppose you were unable to speak, and in a great deal of pain, and all you really wanted was to be out of it, but instead of communicating that desire to the doctors and nurses, you agreed to things that prolonged your suffering for months, simply because you didn’t want a loved one to go on a shooting spree, and kill himself after killing them.

Suppose you prolonged your own earthly suffering for months to stop a multiple murder/suicide from ocurring?

Would that count as an act of perfect contrition?

Could you be forgiven any mortal sins you had committed even if you were unable to verbally confess them to a priest?

Perfect contrition is sorrow for one’s sins based completely and wholly on sorrow for having offended God, Who is “all-loving and worthy of all love,” and not based on fear of eternal punishment.

 

[SeekerM]

Perfect contrition is sorrow for one’s sins based completely and wholly on sorrow for having offended God, Who is “all-loving and worthy of all love,” and not based on fear of eternal punishment.

And how do you seperate love for God from love for man?

Didn’t St. John say “Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.” (1John 4:20.)

So if you were suffering on a resperator for months, when all you really wanted to do was die, because you didn’t want your son to kill his father, himself, and a lot of other innocent people, would that be an act of perfect contrition?

 

[JamesTheJust]

And how do you seperate love for God from love for man?

Didn’t St. John say “Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.” (1John 4:20.)

So if you were suffering on a resperator for months, when all you really wanted to do was die, because you didn’t want your son to kill his father, himself, and a lot of other innocent people, would that be an act of perfect contrition?

Yes, love of God necessarily entails love of neighbor, but that has little, if anything, to do with the reason one feels sorrow for his sins, which is the factor that decides whether one’s contrition is perfect or imperfect.

 

[SeekerM]

Could someone have the kind of love I’m talking about, and endure that kind of pain for the length of time I’m talking about, when they knew that they were dying, without the life of God within them?

 

[JamesTheJust]

Could someone have the kind of love I’m talking about, and endure that kind of pain for the length of time I’m talking about, when they knew that they were dying, without the life of God within them?

Maybe I’m just not getting your point, but your argument appears to be a bit of a non sequitur. Could you expand a bit more without using anecdotes?

 

[whoisdiss]

Well, this is hard to answer. You see, they are seeking for God, and their hearts are in the right area. But they still don’t have the full truth, one of the truths they don’t have is the sacrament of confession. There are some Protestants, like Lutherans and Anglicans, who have it but they rarely do it and neither of them posses apostolic succession! God may be merciful, so they may go to heaven, but probably purgatory first. But it’s un-clear if a Protestant who dies without confession goes to heaven or hell. The church does acknowledge the possibility of Protestants getting to heaven, but adding that it’s much harder for them. The church does say it’s possible if they are sad for offending God with their sin, and are truly repentant may receive the same grace we do in confession. So, who knows if they go to heaven without confession. We simply don’t know. Christ, Jesus, did say in Matthew 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

 

[jmcrae]

And how do you seperate love for God from love for man?

Didn’t St. John say “Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.” (1John 4:20.)

And “perfect love casts out sin.” We must be perfect, in order to go to Heaven. For most of us, that means frequent Confession.

So if you were suffering on a resperator for months, when all you really wanted to do was die, because you didn’t want your son to kill his father, himself, and a lot of other innocent people, would that be an act of perfect contrition?

Surely it is up to God alone to judge such a terrible situation.

The traditional Act of Perfect Contrition goes like this:

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended you,
and I detest all my sins, because of Your just punishments,
but most of all because they offend You, my God,
who are all-good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Your grace,
to sin no more
and to avoid the near occasion of sin.

To recite it perfectly, you must be free from all attachments to any sin, including venial sins and addictions, and all material things, and your sorrow must be sorrow for having offended God, and without any fear of punishment - indeed, to welcome punishment if it will atone for your sins.

 

[SeekerM]

Maybe I’m just not getting your point, but your argument appears to be a bit of a non sequitur. Could you expand a bit more without using anecdotes?

I wish I were using all anecdotes.

My question is whether God would accept your soul if you were unable to open you mouth and confess any mortal sins to a priest, but were able to endure months of prolonged suffering to prevent a mass shooting and suicide?

Would that kind of self sacrifice be evidence of saving grace, and would God accept it as a perfect act of contrition?

 

[agnes_therese]

I’m getting a little confused here as a new Catholic. In the dozen or so answers from the apologists I’ve read and from the information I’ve read in the CCC, it seems Protestants can (not will) go to heaven. God will decide.

In some of the posts, I’m being told Catholic tradition and the CCC says they absolutely will go to Hell.

When there is a conflict between the CCC and the personal opinion of a poster here on CAF, always go with the CCC. Unlike any of us posting here (yes, including myself), the CCC is official Catholic teaching.

 

[jmcrae]

I wish I were using all anecdotes.

My question is whether God would accept your soul if you were unable to open you mouth and confess any mortal sins to a priest, but were able to endure months of prolonged suffering to prevent a mass shooting and suicide?

Would that kind of self sacrifice be evidence of saving grace, and would God accept it as a perfect act of contrition?

There is no way to know.

Also, it is an extremely unlikely situation - most people can’t “choose” when they will die, unless it is a question of assisted suicide, which would certainly be a mortal sin.

If the person is choosing not to undergo assisted suicide, that is a good thing, of course.

 

[JamesTheJust]

When there is a conflict between the CCC and the personal opinion of a poster here on CAF, always go with the CCC. Unlike any of us posting here (yes, including myself), the CCC is official Catholic teaching.

The CCC isn’t the only document containing Catholic doctrine; many others elaborate on the difficulty and high unlikelihood of salvation outside the Church (I’m assuming that you’re referring to my "personal opinion – correct me if I’m wrong).

 

[SeekerM]

There is no way to know.

Also, it is an extremely unlikely situation - most people can’t “choose” when they will die, unless it is a question of assisted suicide, which would certainly be a mortal sin.

If the person is choosing not to undergo assisted suicide, that is a good thing, of course.

When you have a breathing tube down your throught, and the doctors say you’ll die if they don’t do a trecheostomy, you can choose when you’ll die by simply shaking your head.

If you’re very old, and sick, and it would cost a lot of money to try and cure you, they want you to shake your head (and as long as you can nod and shake your head, they’ll keep trying to get you to turn down the proceedure, even if you’ve named someone as your power of attorney.)

When you’re very old, and sick, and in a lot of pain, you want to shake your head when asked about a trecheostomy.

Likewise when asked about a feeding tube.

So it’s not as “extremely unlikely” a situation as you might think.

 

[agnes_therese]

The CCC isn’t the only document containing Catholic doctrine; many others elaborate on the difficulty and high unlikelihood of salvation outside the Church (I’m assuming that you’re referring to my "personal opinion – correct me if I’m wrong).

I didn’t say it’s the only document. I said the CCC is official Church teaching.

There have been a number of people who post their personal opinions as though those opinions are "official.’

 

[JamesTheJust]

I didn’t say it’s the only document. I said the CCC is official Church teaching.

There have been a number of people who post their personal opinions as though those opinions are "official.’

Please forgive me if I was rude. I was quite tired when I made that post.

Anyhow, I agree. Many (wrongly) assume that their own doctrines are those of the Church, without even bothering to do the research.

 

[agnes_therese]

Please forgive me if I was rude. I was quite tired when I made that post.

No worries. :aok:

 

[klm120861]

I would consider practicing baptized Protestants to be people who have made a sincere effort, with the best knowledge that they have, to seek God with a sincere heart and to do his will. I also know that they do confess their sins. I am not the one who is going to be judging them when the time comes, but if I were God, I would not condemn them to Hell. Clearly, however, I’m not God.

A practicing Protestant who is validly baptized (in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is considered by the Catholic Church as part of the Catholic Church, by virtue of their baptism, though imperfectly because they do not possess the fullness of the Sacraments. (See CCC 1271) That’s why a convert (as opposed to a catechumen) only makes a Solemn Profession of Faith (after receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation) prior to Confirmation and First Eucharist. They are not re-baptized. Protestants are not held responsible for the truth they don’t know. They are responsible before God to live the truth they do know with as great a love and fidelity as they can. Otherwise my saintly grandparents who truly loved God with all their heart would now be in hell simply because they were born and raised Protestant. Nowhere in the documents of the Church, or in the Bible is such a teaching supported. Do they have to spend time in Purgatory first? Yes, but then most of us will have to. Even Catholics. The Catechism even presents the possibility that someone who has never heard of Christ or the Catholic Church also making it into heaven, though it is presented as being even more difficult for them.

I hope this helps to clarify things.
Kris

“The limit imposed on evil is ultimately Divine Mercy.” -St. John Paul the Great