A question about Hell

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mexico

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"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?
 
Mexico,

Do you have *one *specific question that we can help you with, to start off?
 
mexico said:
"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?
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without Hell we would not be willingly able to chose Heaven, if there is no alternative to Heaven then people who don’t want to be in Heaven will be and it wont be heaven, Because of Gods love we have free will, Because we are given a choice between good and evil hell exists
 
Maybe God created hell so that people can go there if they choose?

It’s up to us. He loves us so much, he lets us have our way even if it hurts him.

He is also full of justice as well as love. Crime must be punished. What is worse, killing someone whose life is limited anyways, and maybe sending them to heaven prematurely, or killing an eternal God in your own heart by denying the very one that has given you everything?

If you have the proper perspective (eternal, spiritual perspective) hell makes more sense.

I kind of wish hell didn’t exist, but it does. Now its up to us on how to deal with it.
 
God is both loving and just. Loving because He will accept an apology and accept penance, if one is offered; just because those who do not repent should be punished.
 
My understanding about “how” a person gets into hell isn’t quite like you see it. When we face our God after death our understanding of the choices we’ve made while alive become more defined and We now understand How God views us. He LOVES us all more than we ever deserve. While we’re alive it’s our job to EARN our place in the hereafter. We do that by knowing, loving and serving our God with our whole heart, soul and mind. THAT is the reason we’re here. When we finally meet God after we die if we aren’t in the state of Grace we can’t even stand being IN HIS PRESENCE. The ones with venial sins move on to purgatory until their soul is in the state of grace…paying for the sins they committed while alive and didn’t confess in confession. (that’s why a weekly or bi-weekly confession is one or your MOST important gifts while you’re alive) You also gain the grace to overcome sins that you commit due to your own human nature by going to confession. The people who end up in hell WANT to be there because the choices they’ve made during their life has made them who they are. You are what you choose. God NEVER throws anyone who wants to be saved into hell !!! THAT"S why Jesus died for you and me…but still there are some who reject His Love and believe me it Hurts God to loose even one of His children. God Bless You He really Loves You !
 
mexico said:
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?
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Wouldn’t it be better to ask whether people believe it before asking how they can believe it?

It is necessary for the dignity of Man that the choices we make in this life actually matter. If everyone goes to heaven than every day of every person’s life is meaningless, and God has not shown us the respect to allow us to make any choices for ourselves that have any (good or bad) consequences.

Because there is a Hell, people are not puppets.

BTW, I don’t believe that the Church teaches that literal fire is necessarily involved. The more painful part of Hell will be eternal separation from God.

As for your hypothetical atheist and your equally hypothetical rapists and murderers, God is the Lord of both Justice and Mercy, and I trust his decisions on what is right not only more than I trust yours, but more than I trust my own.

However, it is written in the Bible (Jam 2:19) that mere belief in God is not sufficient to be in Heaven. So your hypothetical rapists and murderers are not in Heaven merely for believing in God. Loving God is necessary. And also, in their case, heartfelt, genuine repentance. You or I might deny a truly repentant rapist or murderer entrance to Heaven–thank God it is not our decision.

–Jen
 
God does love all of us. We are His creatures and He wants nothing but the best for us.:yup: And, yes, He created everything. What He did not create is our reactions and choices that we make in life. We decide what our fate is to be. But know this … no one knows who is going to Heaven and who is going to hell. We can only surmise from what we are taught who is most likely to go “where ever”. If a horrendous sinner were to make it into Heaven it would be because that sinner repented sincerely before death of his/her crimes. They would be punished for those crimes either in this life or the next before joining God in Heaven. As for a lake of fire? :confused:None of us knows for sure what hell is like. It could be a place where a person is made to experience their sins and the consequences felt by others because of those sins over and over for eternity. It could be, and this seems most likely to me, that a person will experience a complete separation from God and know it. To be devoid of all Love. How horrible! Of course, a lake of fire could be just as likely. To think that any of this is “back ward” and “barbaric” is to insinuate disbelief in Catholicism and it’s teachings. Your “religion” says you are Catholic but are you? Perhaps, you are angry at the Church. Or are you baiting. What’s the deal?:cool:
Oh and about the atheist. You can’t be an atheist unless you reject God. And if you reject God what are you worshiping? Self? Money? Drugs? Fame? Actors and singers? What drives you?🤷
 
I am not sure I understand? Are you upset by the description of hell or by the concept of it?
 
Did you read “The Shack”? If you did then I can see where this is coming from. It advocates a heretical teaching rejected by the Church. If everyone were to go to Heaven then Christ’s mission on Earth was empty and a lie. He died for our sins so that through His grace we would be saved. How merciful is that? 😃 And who are we to judge another? Would you like it if we judged you? Be at peace.
 
mexico said:
"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?
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My dear friend in Christ;

There are several issues here that lead me t beleive you simply do not have a full understanding of what your reading.
  1. Can you say metaphorical? That friend is what this account is. As to hell being “a pool of fire” the jury is still out. Although some former Saints have been shown hell and claim that it does. Many are of that opinion that hell’s punishment will be even worse than herein described. Certainly the greatest pain will be the now FULL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND THE TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE LOSS OF ASSOCIATION WITH HIM, BY ONES OWN PERSONAL CHOICES. Other hold that hell will consist of eternity in what ever ones greatest fear or dislike is.
What ever hell is it is a place of abject despair, and severe punishment.
  1. our unbeleif in it’s merits; by a PERFECTLY JUST AND FAIR GOD, gives indication that you have a very limited understanding of sin, and how seriously God views sin.
Two examples that come to mind are wht God did in Divine justice to he sins of Adam nd Eve [simply ??? eating an apple from the one tree that God fobid them to eat from] BUT God saw it as pridefull disobedience, delibertly disobeying HIM! [Gen. chapter 1 and 2]

The punishment was pain, sickness, death, work, and Oginal sin inflicted on all of humanity.

The Other example is Moses not following precisely God’s COMMAND and DIRECTIONS
to tap the rock ONCE with hisaff to bring forth water. Moses, in anger at the peoples grumbling and unbelief hit the rock twice; HIS PUNISHMENT DESPITE ALL THE GOOD HE DID, WAS TO NET BE ALLOWED TO ENTER THE “PROMIED LAND” WHICH GOD PERMITTED HIM TO SEE BUT NOT ENTER.

Quite severe for seemingly simple disobedience right? WRONG. Those who are given more will be more severly judged. God is Perfect and an can’t be wrong. [Sorry I can’t provide areference at this time…computer issues]

We NOT GOD choose hell. God simply affirms our decisions.

It is redicilous to think that God became Incarnate, then suffered His three years of abuse and rejection, then suffered His Passion and cruel death; and we don’t have to suffer. Completly without logic and applied justice.

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
Spencerian said:
Mexico,

Do you have *one *specific question that we can help you with, to start off?
Click to expand...
**Yes there is if God is loving he loves everyone equally even sinners. Why did he create Hell for the sole purpose to punish those who don’t believe in Him? **
 
Dear brother or sister Mexico,
I am a simple lay person, but I think you need to deepen your understanding of God. You say ‘if God is loving’ - God is love, among many other things. God wills not the loss of one of His children. Remember, He will leave the flock to find the one lost sheep. I would do some further study of heaven and hell from authentic sources. The key is making sure the source of the information is authentic. And remember all the while, there is a mystical component to our faith. We cannot comprehend the ways of God.
 
mexico said:
**Yes there is if God is loving he loves everyone equally even sinners. Why did he create Hell for the sole purpose to punish those who don’t believe in Him? **
Click to expand...
He didn’t. He did it to allow us to make choices that are real, not merely illusory.

When you have a small child, you allow them to “do it themselves” but if they mess it up, you fix it for them. When your child becomes older, you show them your respect by allowing them to experience the consequences of their choices. God does not treat us as small children.

And you do not know who is in Hell or why they are there. You seem to be trying to oversimplify. The Catholic Church, while declaring (in accordance with Jesus’ words) that there are multiple souls in Hell, has never specified a particular person as being in Hell. AFAIK, even Judas has never been officially declared to be in Hell. Why is that? Because we can’t possibly know who is in Hell. We can assume that if God performs miracles as a result of someone’s intercession after their death, the person in question is in Heaven. But there is no way to know about Hell.

–Jen
 
Hi Mexico,
To add to Jen’s thoughts - I think you have raised an interesting theological question - is it proper to say ‘God created hell’. I wonder if the scholars have ever taken this up. I was just reading a book where it was put forth that the pain of hell is really the fact that you are cut off from God - pure love, light, etc.
As Jen said, no ones knows for sure, it remains a mystery.
Jen raised another thing which reminded me of something. A priest shared his opinion one time (this is not doctrine or church teaching), and said since God transcends time and space, we can pray today for a soul that was deceased previously and God can carry those prayers back to save the soul of say a person who committed suicide and baby that died in an abortion. This is very similar to what Jen is saying. As a matter of fact, we pray of deceased souls as part of our liturgy and at many other times as well.
 
mexico said:
**Yes there is if God is loving he loves everyone equally even sinners. Why did he create Hell for the sole purpose to punish those who don’t believe in Him? **
Click to expand...
Hell is not a place for those who don’t believe in God, but more of a place for those who REJECT God. If it did not exist then why should anyone try to live according to the Church? Why wouldn’t we all just do whatever we want, because after all He loves us and will let us into heaven, no matter what we say or do? God’s perfect justice demands that there be a place such as hell, but he does not send us there, we send ourselves. The people there are not there by accident or surprise; they made their choice and now must live in eternity with the consequences. A loving God recognizes that we are not perfect, and He is willing to let us try and fail as long as we keep on loving him and do our best to live according to His Church. Nothing unclean can enter heaven, lucky for us God also created purgatory to finish the job!
 
mexico said:
"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?
Click to expand...
I think you’re taking things a little too literally. But relax. Everyone who really wants to go to heaven does so.
 
No one deserves Hell. And I like to think no one goes to a Hell as described.

To be honest, I remember reading Milton’s Paradise Lost and going “that has to hurt” when Lucifer falls into the Lake of Fire. I was quite young (it belonged to my mother) and I was reading it. Anyway…for me that really illustrated Hell (more than the Bible) and I decided that no loving God would ever send anyone there…except Hitler. And a few others like that.
 
HauntedJame said:
No one deserves Hell. And I like to think no one goes to a Hell as described.

To be honest, I remember reading Milton’s Paradise Lost and going “that has to hurt” when Lucifer falls into the Lake of Fire. I was quite young (it belonged to my mother) and I was reading it. Anyway…for me that really illustrated Hell (more than the Bible) and I decided that no loving God would ever send anyone there…except Hitler. And a few others like that.
Click to expand...
That is not what the Church teaches, to say that Hitler goes there, but a person who refuse to love God gets to go to heaven is not according to teaching. We choose our final destiny, all God does is confirm it. Simple as that.
 
archangel04 said:
That is not what the Church teaches, to say that Hitler goes there, but a person who refuse to love God gets to go to heaven is not according to teaching. We choose our final destiny, all God does is confirm it. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
It was what I was taught growing up. And I was brought up Catholic. But that was a lot of years ago!
 
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