A question about Islam

[ZAKI]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

 

[Mosacked]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

ZAKI, Islam is all about worshipping islam’s allah. Without prayer, where’s the worship?

**
For more information, visit the following:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com**

.

 

[ZAKI]

ZAKI, Islam is all about worshipping islam’s allah. Without prayer, where’s the worship?

**
For more information, visit the following:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com**

.

islam to me is more than that it is a lifestyle and a code of behaviour-it isnt all about prayer to me. i wanted a knowledgeable muslim to answer this question not a islam-hating christian

 

[Mosacked]

islam to me is more than that it is a lifestyle and a code of behaviour-it isnt all about prayer to me. i wanted a knowledgeable muslim to answer this question not a islam-hating christian

Why do you reject knowledge because it came from somewhere else than your preferred source? Are you not openly admitting that you are an objector of truth?

For more information:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[ZAKI]

Why do you reject knowledge because it came from somewhere else than your preferred source? Are you not openly admitting that you are an objector of truth?

For more information:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

mosacked you make me laugh but I don’t want to view a islam-hating site. i want knowledge from a source WITH knowledge and experience and that mosacked would be muslims.

 

[Hadi]

I recommend asking your questions in one of the many Muslim forums. But here is my thought on this issue.

unlike other religions,our religion is based on both Faith (beliefs) and Works (Salat , Zakat etc).

There were Muslims who didn’t even do a single Salat , yet they entered Paradise. These group of people are the ones who were killed in the prosecution of the Muslims in Mecca (before the commandment of Salat was established).
And there were also people who accepted Islam on their deathbed, they didn’t even read the Quran let alone pray and give Zakat. They just recited the Shahada…

These people didn’t know the commandments or didn’t have the chance to do them, but we Muslims know from an early age the five pillars of Islam, it’s explained to us very clearly…These five commandments are part of our Law… and just like you are expected to obey the law in your country as long as you live there,we are also expected to obey the Islamic laws as long as we are Muslims…you don’t bargain with your country and say : I will obey this law but not that one…you obey them all…

It seems very harsh.

What about obeying the 613 commandments…oh wait you are looking for a religion that doesn’t require you to do anything…there are many of them out there…

 

[Mosacked]

mosacked you make me laugh but I don’t want to view a islam-hating site. i want knowledge from a source WITH knowledge and experience and that mosacked would be muslims.

How do you know its islam hating when you refuse to view it? Can you know something before you get to know it? Your logic seems flawed.

How do you decide that what I spoke is not knowledge when you are asking for knowledgeable answers and is yourself in search of it? Can you ask for a cake claiming you are hungry but really only wanted a cake the way that you wanted it. IN other words you are not really asking a question here, you’re trying to get muslims to post you answers that you want displayed.

Your mind is seemingly in chaos with these flawed reasonings. What is obvious to me is the purpose of your question is to look for supporters of your flawed theories. You certainly are not an ex-muslim like what you falsely claimed, going by your ardent support of islam.

Be aware that your falsehood is extremely obvious. Nonetheless, I offer no regard to your insiduous agenda.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[ZAKI]

Your mind is seemingly in chaos with these flawed reasonings. What is obvious to me is the purpose of your question is to look for supporters of your flawed theories. You certainly are not an ex-muslim like what you falsely claimed, going by your ardent support of islam.

Be aware that your falsehood is extremely obvious. Nonetheless, I offer no regard to your insiduous agenda.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

??? so you think i have to hate islam to be an ex-muslim?

 

[hamba2han]

This is a brief explanation to the question posed:

There are 4 main madhab or schools of jurisprudence in Islam and of these, only one i.e. the Hambali madhab rules that a Muslim who does not perform the 5 obligatory daily prayers is not considered a Muslim whereas the other 3 madhabs rule that the negligent individual is still a Muslim even though he or she does not pray.

My own view on the matter is that if a Muslim chooses not to pray, then there is hardly any difference between him and a non-Muslim in terms of their individual outlook on life, not just in this world but especially so in his preparation for the Hereafter.

 

[Sam_777]

Firstly, welcome back ZAKI.

Secondly, you are arguing with one of the main pillars of Islam, simply you can’t, if you feel that its harsh, then imagine what would you do once you know that Allah and Muhammad agreed first on 50 prayers per day then because of Moses that had been reduced to 5 only, anyway here is the hadith which condemn the person who negligent prayer:

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0146:
"It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that he heard the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) saying. Verily between man and between polytheism and unbelief is the negligence of prayer."
(E)

Thirdly, I’m aware that you are still young and lives in a secular country, but my advice to you if you can’t pray on time, then try at least praying them all at once, at least to keep you in spiritual relation with God till you really finds Him.

Thirdly, I remember you had “Islam” title next to your religion profile, are you really researching now?

 

[ZAKI]

This is a brief explanation to the question posed:

There are 4 main madhab or schools of jurisprudence in Islam and of these, only one i.e. the Hambali madhab rules that a Muslim who does not perform the 5 obligatory daily prayers is not considered a Muslim whereas the other 3 madhabs rule that the negligent individual is still a Muslim even though he or she does not pray.

My own view on the matter is that if a Muslim chooses not to pray, then there is hardly any difference between him and a non-Muslim in terms of their individual outlook on life, not just in this world but especially so in his preparation for the Hereafter.

what about if the person is lazy or simply doesn’t have time?

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

Firstly, welcome back ZAKI.

Secondly, you are arguing with one of the main pillars of Islam, simply you can’t, if you feel that its harsh, then imagine what would you do once you know that Allah and Muhammad agreed first on 50 prayers per day then because of Moses that had been reduced to 5 only, anyway here is the hadith which condemn the person who negligent prayer:

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0146:
"It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that he heard the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) saying. Verily between man and between polytheism and unbelief is the negligence of prayer."
(E)

Thirdly, I’m aware that you are still young and lives in a secular country, but my advice to you if you can’t pray on time, then try at least praying them all at once, at least to keep you in spiritual relation with God till you really finds Him.

Thirdly, I remember you had “Islam” title next to your religion profile, are you really researching now?

you didn’t look at my point number 2?
yes i am researching now. i want to learn more about taoism and eastern religions.
i want to be a muslim but I haven’t prayed for a while now and i did some “unislamic things” plus im having a **** time with my parents and the main reason why i havent gone on forums lately is bcz my life’s been a mess…and seeing muslims and christians arguing it out here isnt exactly going to help lollal. but things have calmed down a bit and alhamdullilah ive moved back into my parent’s house.

 

[Sam_777]

you didn’t look at my point number 2?

Indeed Kafir can enter paradise, read this authentic hadith:

*Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.” *
(E)

Some Islamic clerics say that applies to people whom didn’t know Islam yet, but in your case you already knew it, so simply you can’t negligent prayer in all cases.

yes i am researching now. i want to learn more about taoism and eastern religions.

There is only one true path…
You are going to listen to sinful people and negligent the sinless One!!!

plus im having a **** time with my parents and the main reason why i havent gone on forums lately is bcz my life’s been a mess…

My advice to you since you live in a secular country, no matter what they tells you, you have to listen to them, you are still kid, they know better than you at least till you reach 18, unfortunately you wouldn’t realize that they were right till you yourself become a father…

 

[eichenb2]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

1. A Muslim is considered an unbeliever (kaafir) if he does not pray and he believes that the five required prayers are NOT required, according to the Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanafi schools. If he does not pray these prayers out of laziness, he is not considered kaafir, according to the same schools.
   However, the dominant view in the Hanbali school is that one becomes a kaafir if the time for one required prayer has past and someone has neglected to pray it, even out of laziness. If one is unconscious or sleep, it gets a little more complicated.
2. Soteriology (doctrine of salvation) in Islam is has a few different flavours. There are three principle schools of Aqeedah in the Sunni branch of Islam (Maturidi, Ash’ari, Athari). There are difference betwwen the schools, but all are, mostly, accepted in Sunni Islam. I will not go into excruciating details, just discuss key points that are common. One thing that must be understood, though, is that salvation in Islam is, ultimately, a matter of God’s will. One is saved, according to Islam, by God’s will and foreknowledge. The practise of the 5 pillars, including required prayers, is a proof that one is favoured by God (for the time being). It is possible in Islam to be a pious, practicing Muslim for ones’ whole life and then leave Islam and die as a kaafir (or vice versa). It is entirely up to God’s will, which we cannot know. To mitigate this uncertainty, Islam emphasises that God is essentaily merciful. The imperative in Islam is to believe in God (without partners) and do good, according to the moral norms articulated to Quran and Sunnah.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

What about obeying the 613 commandments…oh wait you are looking for a religion that doesn’t require you to do anything…there are many of them out there…

To be fair, it’s humanly impossible to fulfill all 613 commandments. Some apply only to women, others only to men, others only to Levites, others only to priests, others apply only qua Temple service (and there is no longer a Temple), and others are obsolete. For example, there is a commandment to dye your tzitzit with the blood of a chilazon. Well, nobody has the foggiest idea what a “chilazon” is (some kind of shellfish, it is presumed), so that one’s right out as well.

So keeping the commandments nowadays isn’t such an onerous task, even if one is Orthodox. The Conservatives keep most of them, except those that are man-made or patently obsolete, and even the Reformed keep the obligation to pray.

So I agree with you; the obligation to pray takes pride of place in all three great Abrahamic faiths. Without it, all the Zakat, Tzedekah, and Tithing in the world won’t save your soul.

Now, what if you’re a busy man and don’t have time to drop everything five times a day, or don’t want to risk being conspicuous; can you pray silently, or pray at your own time in your own words? That’s something you’d have to ask your spiritual advisor.

 

[elwill]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

firstly i have to say that i’m totally agree with hamba2han explanation

for me , i think that this word " kafir" have many levels , the highst of it is to be apostate or nonmuslim
briefly , i can’t equate the one who dosn’t pray with the one who dosn’t believe in the first place

but it still that the prayer is the most important practice in islam ,
God said
Oh Muslims don’t avoid giving salat its importance

 

[elwill]

1. A Muslim is considered an unbeliever (kaafir) if he does not pray and he believes that the five required prayers are NOT required, according to the Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanafi schools. If he does not pray these prayers out of laziness, he is not considered kaafir according to the same schools.

that’s exactly what i believe

 

[eichenb2]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

I left Islam because of

1. God as pure will
2. use of violence by Muhammad and his companions to propogate his teachings
3. the extreme literalism and ritualism of the overwhelming majority of Muslims

 

[jakasaki]

assalam to the muslims on CAF,

I have a problem that I’d like answered by the muslims here about islam. ok thanks

Why is it that a muslim is considered a kafir if he does not pray? He makes dua, he has done the shahada (sincerely), he’s a good person, he feeds the poor, pays zakat and fasts but just doesn’t pray.
What doesn’t make sense about this is that:

1. It seems very harsh.
2. We all know that a kafir can not enter paradise yet a sahih hadith says that even a person with an atom weight of faith in Allah will enter paradise…
   so wouldn’t that “kafir” who simply doesn’t pray but does everything else he is commanded to do HAVE an atom weights of faith?

I have a few more but please could some knowledgeable brother/sister answer this one firstly

thank you

Hi there Zaki - nice to see you back here.

What happened to your muslim faith status between last time you were here and now you are “researching” for something new?

I did read you had some family problems and are now back at home, but what made you question islam and research other religions?

I know it’s hard being 15 and your mind is going through so much. It’s not easy being a teenager. Believe me, we’ve all been there.

Also, besides asking for advice from “muslims” only here on CAF, which we don’t have many, you should also seek assistance from our ex-muslim posters.

And last question for now… I know you belong to a islamic forum. Have you posted your question on there for assistance?

If you did, what were some of the replies back to you regarding your situation?

Thanks much
Pam

 

[hamba2han]

what about if the person is lazy or simply doesn’t have time?

wasalam

First, I concur with the following explanation given earlier in the thread:

“A Muslim is considered an unbeliever if he does not pray and he believes that the five required prayers are NOT required, according to the Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanafi schools. If he does not pray these prayers out of laziness, he is not considered an unbeliever, according to the same schools.”

I would however hasten to add that the term “unbeliever” does not necessarily translate to the word “kaffir” since there is a significant difference in their meanings.

Second, I would draw the following analogy when it comes to viewing the Hereafter → Suppose someone were to offer you a billion dollars if you were able to complete the London marathon in under 3 hours.

Well, if it was me who was given this insane offer of a billion dollars, I would dedicate myself completely and spend the next few years of my life training everyday towards achieving this goal of finishing the London marathon in under 3 hours even though I have never run a marathon in my life.

And a wonderful aspect of this offer is that even if I do not manage to achieve this objective, I would would still be eligible to be rewarded accordingly for all the sincere and earnest effort that I have put in towards achieving the goal.

Now then, would laziness and “not having enough time” come into the picture at all for that someone who was given this offer?

I don’t think so and so it really boils down to the question of how much one WANTS the reward of a billion dollars and how much one really BELIEVES the offer to be true.

Apply this to the reward of the Hereafter and you should then view the matter of the 5 daily prayers the same way that you would view the importance of training everyday in order to achieve the goal of completing the London marathon in under 3 hours and thereby winning the billion dollar prize.