A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

[mamaslo]

Yes.

It’s called marital debt. The couple may cease sexual activity, but it must be consensual. Withholding sex from your spouse is gravely sinful.

And so may the reason why the spouse is witholding…so there is a balance.

Also I think most men (or women) who would use their right to leave and find a valid spouse would be considered selfish to the nth degree and why would someone want to make a valid marriage with such a person?

 

[Havard]

The Church doesn’t require people who have children out of wedlock to move in with their child’s parent, live with them as brother and sister, and give up on having a marriage with someone else.

This man has no moral obligation to stay… even by Catholic law (though he isn’t even Catholic anyway).

Okay, so what’s the big dilemma then? I know he has no obligation to live with her and the kids, but where’s his incentive not to? Just the fact that it’s licit?

 

[Debora123]

Also I think most men (or women) who would use their right to leave and find a valid spouse would be considered selfish to the nth degree and why would someone want to make a valid marriage with such a person?

I don’t think he would be selfish at all, IMHO. Neither would it even be against Church teaching.

His “wife” just told him she’s not actually his wife and will cease having a marital relationship with him… the man then has every right to find a spouse. So yeah, I don’t think it would be selfish of him. Though to each their own I suppose.

 

[Debora123]

Okay, so what’s the big dilemma then? I know he has no obligation to live with her and the kids, but where’s his incentive not to? Just the fact that it’s licit?

His incentive not to??

Probably the fact that he might actually want to be married to someone lol. Nothing wrong with that.

Have you ever met anyone at all who had a child with someone out of wedlock and decided to move in with the child’s parent and live with them as a brother while giving up marriage? I certainly have not.

 

[Portrait]

The freedom to do something doesn’t make it the right thing to do. In this case, the facts are that a) their marriage is invalid, and b) they’ve involved not just themselves, but innocent people (the kids) in this mess. If this marriage were valid, her decision not to allow the marital debt after a period of time (key phrase there–if she intended from the start of the marriage not to permit it, the marriage wouldn’t be valid, but as a marriage is judged on the condition of the couple at the time of the vows this situation wouldn’t change the validity of the marriage) wouldn’t invalidate the marriage.

In short, the kids are the people whose needs must be considered above all others in this situation. To leave them because he isn’t getting any would be the act of a man who isn’t worthy of the title “father.”

Dear UbiCaritas,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good (name removed by moderator)ut to the discussion, your two posts.

There is, I think, a very real danger of viewing this whole issue from a non-spiritual perspective and making an unwarranted assumption as to how most men would act, were they confronted with a marriage devoid of conjugal relations. It is difficult to guess as to how many would actually abandon their spouse and children in such circumstances, but I venture to say that even among decent non-Christian men that number would, in fact, be relatively small. Moreover, the fear of public disapproval would surely militate against such deplorable conduct, even in the milieu of our present irrelgious and immoral culture. Only a thoroughly dishonourable fellow would forsake his wife and children and put his own carnal needs first. Indeed, such a man would be unworthy of title ‘father’.

Even in the times in which our lot is cast, when so many are deficient in consideration for their fellow men, regard for others is still a principle for action for the vast majority. Thanks be unto God, there are many good chaps in society that are not so ruled by their carnal instincts that they put these before everything else, including their precious children. To think otherwise is surely an affront to the male population, as a whole.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[mamaslo]

I don’t think he would be selfish at all, IMHO. Neither would it even be against Church teaching.

His “wife” just told him she’s not actually his wife and will cease having a marital relationship with him… the man then has every right to find a spouse. So yeah, I don’t think it would be selfish of him. Though to each their own I suppose.

The children might have a different opinion than you do.

 

[Havard]

His incentive not to??

Probably the fact that he might actually want to be married to someone lol. Nothing wrong with that.

Have you ever met anyone at all who had a child with someone out of wedlock and decided to move in with the child’s parent and live with them as a brother while giving up marriage? I certainly have not.

First off, they are married, legally. And that was all that mattered to him before this all happened.

Second, nothing says she has to ask him to legally divorce, nor does she have to ask him to move out. If you add that in the hypothetical, that’s fine, but it’s not the Church making her do it, that has to be her choice.

All she is saying is that she can no longer be intimate with him. They can still love each other, live under the same roof, and raise their children together.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…We’re not dealing with a situation involving two Catholics, but instead two nonCatholics. NonCatholics marriages are not the same as Catholic marriages. …

According to God’s laws, all marriages are until death.

…The couple might not believe in the permanency of marriage. …

So? God believes in it. He said so.

…The couple would not have valid vows if investigated by a Catholic tribunal in this case. …

Then it was never a marriage to begin with.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I’m just trying to be realistic, really.

And it was 15 years lol.

To make it a realistic, hypothetical situation, right?

Sorry, that just struck me as too funny.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Thanks Grace!

And no, I don’t really have that many Catholic friends. I have a lot of protestant friends, but not really many Catholic ones.

I talk to my mother a lot who is a very devout woman and has a master’s degree in Theology from a Catholic University. And my family is also really close to our parish priest and a Jesuit priest who I consider to be my spiritual directer. And I must say, he sees a lot more grey areas in certain moral issues than many of the more strict members here.

Other than that, I don’t really have many Catholic “friends.”

Ah, that explains it, a Jesuit priest is your spiritual director.



I already ducked.



But, Jesuits are known to sometimes be rather liberal.