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Timothy524
Guest
Good Fella Thank you for your response. It was helpful in many ways. To be continued…
- Status
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jcrichton
Guest
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Good_Fella
Guest
You’re most welcome, Timothy. :tiphat:
The best way to learn from Jesus is to look to him and try to be like him: meek and humble of heart. Only then can we have the patience and fortitude to carry our cross. It is the proud of heart who can’t bear carrying the cross and regard it as a personal affront. By being inordinately self-appreciative, they see their trials as having no positive value, since they’re too focused on themselves and on what they feel they don’t deserve. But as Christians, we mustn’t forget that the crosses we bear have redemptive value. By offering our suffering to God as an oblation for our sins, in acknowledgement of our sins, we can make temporal satisfaction to God for them in union with Christ’s eternal satisfaction and thereby remit our debt to God for our past sins, regardless of whether God has already forgiven us. God forgave David his mortal sins of murder and adultery, but He still took David’s child from him because of his sins (2 Sam 12:14). This was to restore an equity of justice between them. David still owed God something in return for having taken something from Him, that being God’s sovereign dignity. Jesus made eternal satisfaction to God for our sins. Although he atoned for them more than sufficiently, the consequences of sin remain: suffering and death. That’s because temporally we are still indebted to God for our offenses against Him and are required to make restitution for the remittance of our debts. The purpose of satisfaction is to repair the offense offered to God and make Him favourable to us again. An act of reparation can be satisfactory to God only if it is painful.
Commutative justice is that virtue whose object is to render to everyone what belongs to him. When we sin against God, we deny Him what He is supremely entitled to, viz., our love and obedience. So, saying sorry isn’t enough to restore a balance of equity in our relationship with God. This requires that we show our love for Him which we have denied Him. By accepting our sufferings and offering them to God as means of reparation for our offenses against Him, equity is restored, as the pain of loss counters the pleasure of selfish gain. Look at it this way, if you had stopped at a red light and I recklessly came up from behind and dented the back fender of your car, you would expect me to offer to pay for the damages despite having forgiven me by accepting my apology. My having said I’m sorry would be meaningless and hold no merit if I didn’t offer to cover the expenses for the damage. And, so, even though you may have forgiven me of my fault, we couldn’t fully be reconciled, not if I refused to restore an equity of justice between us. This equity could be restored only if I chose to repair the effects of the damage I caused. I would have to restore what rightfully belongs to you - an undamaged car. The offense I caused you would still remain regardless of whether you have forgiven me and accepted my apology. If you should then decide to take me to court and sue for damages, you wouldn’t necessarily be acting out of vengeance and pouring down your wrath upon me because of my offense. You might simply be reclaiming what rightfully belongs to you by my having to pay the cost. If I were truly sorry, I’d be willing to cover the damage to begin with.
So, don’t think that all the hardships you are facing and have to endure are merely punishments inflicted on you by a wrathful God because of your sins. Holier people than us have suffered much more. It isn’t because God hates us for having offended Him. Rather, God loves us as a Father loves his children. And because He loves us as any good father should love his children, He disciplines us so that our relationship can be fully restored. God allowed the Assyrians and Babylonians to conquer and take His chosen people into captivity. He even allowed the Babylonians to destroy His holy Temple in Jerusalem for the sake of his people. Through their trials and hardships, they remembered how much Yahweh had faithfully done for them since their exodus from Egypt and realized how much they needed Him for all their blessings. They saw that all their idolatry and apostasy was vain. Through suffering, the Israelites experienced a change of heart. Once rejuvenated in spirit, and the time of their discipline was over, God liberated them again from slavery.
To be continued…
:harp:
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Good_Fella
Guest
To continue, Jesus says: Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for yourselves. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light” (Mt. 11:28-30). Our Lord is citing the Book of Sirach 51, 23-30: ‘Come to me, all you that need instruction, and learn in my school. Why do you admit that you are ignorant and do nothing about it? Here is what I say: It costs nothing to be wise. Put on the yoke, and be willing to learn. The opportunity is always near. See for yourselves! I have not studied very hard, but I have found great contentment. No matter how much it costs you to get Wisdom, it will be well worth it. Be joyfully grateful for the Lord’s mercy, and never be ashamed to praise him. Do your duty at the proper time, and the Lord, at the time he thinks proper, will give you your reward.’ Jesus also says: “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me” (Matt 26:24). By citing Sirach, Jesus is identifying himself with the eternal wisdom: the Divine Logos of God. Our souls can find rest only by learning how to be like Jesus was in his humanity: humbly obedient to the will of God and perfected in obedience by meekly suffering for the sins that offend our heavenly Father. Jesus produced our eternal reward for us, but if we hope to merit this reward, we must be willing to take up our cross after him. No matter how much it physically and emotionally costs us to follow the road to Calvary in our Lord’s footsteps, our love of God and hope in His promised reward should relieve us of our burdens (Rom 8:18).
By trusting God and surrendering our burdens to Him, as we faithfully carry out our duties of discipleship with Christ’s yoke taken upon us, He will be faithful to us in return and provide the patience and fortitude we need to endure our burdens with the help of these actual graces (Rom 5:2-3; 2 Cor 12:9-10). God’s actual grace is efficacious in that it has the power to inspire and influence us to do what pleases Him. By opening ourselves to the Divine persuasion with the knowledge and understanding we have received from the Holy Spirit (the prophetic light of faith), we can cleanse ourselves of all sin. Without faith and uniting our sufferings with Christ’s, the burdens we carry could never be lightened. Trying to remove these burdens altogether would be ignorant of us and unwise, for without them we could never be buried with our Lord into death and be raised with him to a new life. Our cross stands at the forefront of our baptismal commitment (Jn 12:24; Rom 6:4; Col 2:12). St. Paul preached a “Christ crucified” (1 Cor 1:23). For unbelievers, the cross is a scandal and something foolhardy to take up. The wisdom of this world is totally indifferent to it. For many Protestants, the cross (crucifix) is something that should be kept in the basement while only ‘Christ risen’ is proclaimed from the church steeple. Yet, since ancient time, Catholics have focussed on our Lord’s eternal sacrifice (re-presented in every Mass for our daily sins) without which there could be no resurrection. Thus, as heirs with Christ, we shall be glorified with him, but only after we have temporally suffered for our sins (Rom 8:17). Jesus did not eradicate suffering and death by his passion and death, because these evil effects of original sin are means by which we can make temporal reparation and expiation for our personal sins to amend our broken relationship with God. Unless we unite our suffering and death with the passion and death of our Lord, following him as our model and guide, we are unworthy to reap the fruit Christ alone gained for us by his passion and death: the gift of eternal life with God (Phil 3:10).
***“Accordingly the believer, through great discipline, divesting himself of the passions, passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, viz., to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance from the sins he has committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more–not yet or not quite attaining what he sees others to have acquired. Besides, he is also ashamed of his transgressions. The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness.”
Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:14 (post A.D. 202) ***
PAX
:heaven:
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Good_Fella
Guest
The prodigal son was dead in his sin, but then was born again and reconciled with his father. Adam was once alive before he fell from grace. As his descendants, we are born spiritually dead, and because of our condition, physical death has entered the world. But by being born again through the regenerating waters of our baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit, death no longer has a final hold on us as we await the hope of our resurrection. We read in the Nicene Creed: “He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.” The statement “He rose again” refers to Jesus’ resurrection. Jesus didn’t rise from the dead twice, but in his humanity, he rose from the dead to new life.
God’s discipline is inspired by His love for us (Prov 3:11-12). Without wisdom and understanding, we can easily mistake our hardships in life for God’s merciless wrath and anger crashing down on us because of our sins and failures, including those forgotten venial sins. However, God is a loving and caring Father who desires nothing more than to make us better children of His. As I told Timothy, God discipline’s us to cultivate our souls, overcome our disordered passions, and help us mature spiritually. If God didn’t love us, He would overlook our sins and leave us on the path to complete spiritual ruin and eternal damnation. Jesus himself “learned obedience through what he suffered, and being made perfect (in his humanity) he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him” (Heb 5:8-9). We must allow God to perfect us with His grace if we hope to have a share in our Lord’s resurrection. And being made perfect by learning obedience involves being disciplined for all our backslidings.
Jesus is referring to his baptism of blood. Through this baptism, he will be immersed in suffering and death and will rise again (be resurrected) to a new life (cf. Lk 9:22).
And they said: Grant to us, that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. And Jesus said to them: You know not what you ask. Can you drink of the chalice that I drink of: or be baptized with the baptism wherewith I am baptized?
Mark 10, 37-38
In 1 John 5: 6-12, the statement “Jesus came by water and blood” refers to Christ’s baptism (Mt 3:16–17) and to the shedding of his blood on the cross (Jn 19:34). The Spirit was present at our Lord’s baptism (Mt 3:16; Mk 1:10; Lk 3:22; Jn 1:32, 34). The testimony to Christ as the Son of God is confirmed by the Divine witness (1 Jn 5:7–9). To deny this is to deny God’s truth (cf. Jn 8:17–18). The Holy Spirit testifies that eternal life (1 Jn 5:11–12) is given in Christ and nowhere else. To possess the Son is to possess him who lives now and provides life.
Jesus came to us by water. He began his public life after he had himself baptized by John. The Spirit who hovered over the waters at the beginning of creation descended on Jesus not only to bear witness to his divinity, but also as a prelude to our own regeneration through the water of baptism.Water symbolizes the catechumen’s burial into Christ’s death, from which he is resurrected with Jesus as a new creature.
Christ “came to us not by water alone, but by water and blood.” The Blood of Christ is for our redemption. The initial grace of justification and forgiveness which we receive when we are baptized is by the merits of Christ’s blood alone. Through his death on the cross and with his blood Christ has redeemed us back to God. For the redemption to be proper and complete, our Lord had to be the perfect sacrifice. Through his life and death on earth he fulfilled all the righteous and holy requirements of God (including his own baptism which we have a share in) and then paid the ransom for us. “He who had no sin was made sin for us” to free us from the curse of the law.
Christ’s blood is for our forgiveness and remittance of guilt. This perfect blood of Christ washes away all our sins and trespasses provided we are repentant. We have the blood of Christ applied to us from the first moment we receive him in our hearts and remain in his love. In turn, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The cleansing water of baptism is effective through the cleansing properties of Christ’s blood.
The blood of Christ is the blood of the New Covenant. This is an agreement between God and mankind, which requires the shedding of Christ’s blood for its enactment. Because of the blood that was shed by the sacrifices on the altar in the Old Covenant, the Israelites were able to keep it with God, but the blessings they received were only of temporal value. In the New Covenant, God desires to give Himself to us through the merits of His Son by giving us a new heart and a new spirit to seek Him and to love Him, so that we should receive our eternal inheritance. Through the blood of the New Covenant, we have cause to draw towards Christ who has come to us and claim Him as our life. The blood of the New Covenant brings us into all the eternal divine blessings! No apostle could drink from the cup of the blood of the new and everlasting covenant in co-ordination with our Lord’s merits for the redemption of mankind.
PAX
:heaven:
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
…as always, your posts are very enjoyable… they are very comprehensive and intelligible.
I do have one comment… I highlighted a the particular text because I think that we must consider not so much “pain” but “self-sacrifice” since we can offer to God both our joys and our pains, our happiness and afflictions, and our success and our failures; it is by placing God first, self-sacrifice, that we can in deed exalt Him in all that we do.
Maran atha!
Angel
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Good_Fella
Guest
Hi!
…as always, your posts are very enjoyable… they are very comprehensive and intelligible.
Hi! :tiphat: And thank you always for your compliments.All this blushing might lead to a stroke.
uch:
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jcrichton
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Hi!Hi! :tiphat: And thank you always for your compliments.
Agreed. All our personal sacrifices, whether they be of praise or thanksgiving or for sin should be for the glory of God. They all require a humble and contrite heart and a broken spirit in mind of our sins and unworthiness. However, the sacrifices we offer up to God for our sins as acts of reparation for them require pain and personal loss for satisfaction to be made to God, for the object is to restore moral equilibrium in our relationship with Him.
Every sin involves some sort of inordinate pleasure which is indulged in against God’s laws. So, in sin there are pleasure and disobedience. What violates God’s laws is indulging in forbidden pleasures. So, to blot out sin and the debt we’ve incurred, there must be something to counter-balance the sinful pleasures (gluttony-fasting, etc.) and fully compensate God for our offenses. The two essential components of reparation for sin are repentance and penance which requires pain and loss to meet its objective. Pain and suffering have no moral and spiritual value if divorced from repentance. Repentance is incomplete if the debt of sin remains in the balance. This debt can only be remitted by proper acts of penance whose pain and loss counter-balance the sinful pleasure one is heartily sorry for. It is through repentance that suffering gains redemptive value, which consists in willingly accepting the pain and loss for one’s sin. Only then can the penitent be fully reconciled to God before being admitted into Heaven. The poor souls in Purgatory are there to remit all debts of sin which they failed to do by the time they passed from this world. To pay off their debts to God, they must willingly suffer and accept the need for suffering to be worthy of entering Heaven. Yet their purgation of sins includes the joy of having been saved and the consoling prospect of finally being delivered from their torments to be eternally with God.
Penitence is a Christian virtue, whose only reason that it exists is sin. Temperance is a virtue in that it consists in regulating our appetites and desires. If there’s a need for this regulation, it’s only because “sin entered the world through one man”. Because of original sin, man’s will is prone to deviate from the straight path at variance with the law of nature and thereby he indulges in needless and vain pleasures that he has no God-given natural right to. By claiming this right for himself in opposition to the will of God, his indulgence offends God’s sovereignty over the world. To restore equilibrium in our relationship with God an equal swing in the right direction is needed to counter-balance the equal swing in the wrong direction. So, in the Divine moral order, since the disorder of sin consists in partaking of forbidden pleasures and offending God, there must be two exponents that are necessary for the process of restoring this moral equilibrium. The act of sin essentially lies in the offense given to God and the disobedience of the person who commits the act through the wicked consent of the will, so the essential element of reparation should be in the change of heart and in the sorrow for the offense. Certainly, punishment alone may expiate any sinful pleasure, but if the heart is not converted and a person doesn’t accept the punishment willingly in a contrite spirit, the expiation itself would hold no moral significance.
This is how it is for the souls of poor sinners in Hell. They are undergoing their expiatory punishment under constraint. Unlike the poor souls in Purgatory, the eternally damned aren’t willingly accepting their suffering in a true spirit of repentance and love of God. Hell is a place of penal expiation to compensate for the indulgence in sinful pleasures. But unlike Purgatory, it isn’t a place where the compensating punishment is undergone for the sake of making reparation to God for admittance into Heaven.
Hence, if a compensating punishment or disciplinary action of God is accompanied by our interior dispositions of sorrow and a frim desire of amendment and our willing acceptance to be punished in acknowledgement of our sins, we have reparation. And if the reparation is made complete, proportionate to the offense (gluttony-fasting; greed-almsgiving, etc.), we have satisfaction to God for our sins. To merit God’s favour and stand just in His sight by removing the debts of our sins, we must make acts of reparation proportionate to our offenses to restore equilibrium in our relationship with God. And this involves pain and loss. The reparation Jesus made for the sins of mankind required that he suffer and die. Our sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving are distinct in characteristic from our sacrifices for sin.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we etseemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
Isaiah 53, 4-5
:heaven:
I concur… and sorry for laying it on thick… I wanted to acknowledge your efforts since virtual vacuum can lead one to think that one is hitting against a wall or running into infinity… so, just remember that some one is always thinking:
:tiphat::extrahappy::clapping::yyeess:
“Cheerio, chap; keep up God’s Work!”
Maran atha!
Angel
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Good_Fella
Guest
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
…interestingly enough the New Covenant demonstrates the same demands while providing the Perfect Sacricife:
(St. Luke 6:46)
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (St. Matthew 5:20)
The relationship has not changed… only the means!
Maran atha!
Angel
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SnoopSword
Guest
Well… some would say the relationship has changed due to the Trinity and Jesus being at the right hand of the Father. Some might even suggest a relationship wasn’t possible with God until the cross because Jesus still had to preach to those waiting in prison and moral sins could not be forgiven yet (likely due to lack of communion with God).
Some might say Jesus is the only way to the Father. Some might even say that Jesus is only found in the legal sacraments of the catholic church which means to have a relationship with God, they would at least require a legal baptism which was only made possible since Jesus on earth…
If not, then I guess the person can stay unbaptised at emnity with God and angels can take their petitions up to ‘god’ whoever that might be… but regardless, that wouldn’t really be the SAME relationship with God as compared to our current Christian relationship.
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Good_Fella
Guest
Others would say that the relationship with God isn’t any different, but one’s understanding of who God is has changed.
Others would suggest that a relationship with God did in fact exist by the covenant He had established with His people. Those waiting in prison (purgatory) were forgiven by the foreseen merits of Christ, or else they wouldn’t have been in prison, but in Hell. If those in the limbo of the fathers hadn’t been in communion with God, they wouldn’t be there. The Levitical sacrifices for sin were expiatory, but only made temporal satisfaction to God.
Jesus is the only way to the Father. The activity of the Holy Spirit isn’t confined to the sacraments. Non-Christians can be saved by the baptism of desire or of blood.
:heaven:
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
I think that what is happening is a difference in vocabulary/understanding…
Jesus Commanded that we be Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect (St. Matthew 5:48)…
Is that not the same Command that echoes from the Old Testament?:
(Leviticus 11:45b)
16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” (1 St. Peter 1:16)
…so the relationship has in deed not changed; only, as you’ve pointed out, the means have changed.
Maran atha!
Angel
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Gadgeteer
Guest
I was laughing at the use of “darn”, rather than a stronger expletive.
Sometimes I do tell jokes. If we can’t laugh, what’s the point?
That’s why I have listened to them, written down all the verses they use, and discovered Scripture that refutes them.
Here is an example of how far some people will go to continue a doctrine:
2Pet3:9 "God is patient, not decreeing to perish only those He’s ordained not to perish (of course He does decree most to perish!), but patiently waits for repentance from all to whom He has decreed repentance and determined the time of their repentance (nevermind, He’s not waiting for anything)!
There are those who really contend God only decrees not-perish, those He has decreed not to perish, and waits even though He’s not really waiting! Is it just me, or is that silly?
It’s mostly because of the assault “Sovereign Predestined Salvation” does on God’s character. No matter how one tries to dodge the issue, God would be responsible for man’s sins!
I’m honored by your words & prayers! :hug3:
Have you ever heard their verses separated into “Primaries” and “Secondaries” before? Some have said Acts13:48 should be raised to a Primary; but it’s easily refuted both by verse 46, and by the Greek. The Primaries seem to assert Predestined-Salvation more directly, and are less obviously refuted.
The deepest desire of my heart is to be a willing and successful vessel for Him to reach as many as possible through me. “Lord, change me, as You will!”
They apply the “CATCH-22” — “If a person is unsaved NOW, then he was never TRULY saved in the FIRST place.” This causes wild interpretations (as I just cited above), stamping clear verses with “NOT REALLY”, and rewriting Scripture (like in Jn10:26 & 28 they add “not-even-yourselves” to “No one can snatch you from His hand”.
They redefine words; take Heb6:4-6 — “photizo-enlightened” becomes superficial (not really), “geuomai-taste” becomes only sample but not really partake (in spite of Heb2:9 "Jesus tasted death" — I have good information that He really died!). And “metochos-partners” in the Holy Spirit is somehow unsaved, when “metochos” is FULLY saved in 3:1, 3:14, and 12:8!
“All” becomes only “some-of-all-types” in 1Tim2:1-4 (in spite of “all” including kings and ALL authority), also in Rom5:17-19
That’s exactly the issue! IN that, “living-in-sin” is possible! In 1Cor10:1-13, “don’t crave evil, don’t be immoral, don’t be covetous” – any of those things read as “not really possible” for the saved? The consequence, “therefore let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall”!
Fall — as in, “NOT REALLY”? Oh yes, really!
Exactly. There are many places where men are judged according to their deeds (Rom2:6-8, Rev20:13, etc.) — but good deeds never save anyone, and evil deeds never condemn anyone; our DEEDS, expose where our heart WAS. A heart that did good deeds knew Jesus, and a heart that did evil did not. That’s the connection with these verses — as John says in 1:5:10 (echoed in places like Jn3:18-20), some are condemned BECAUSE they HAVE NOT believed the testimony. Their unbelief exposed because of their evil deeds!
Seems so simple – what can we do to stop many from missing it???
Exactly that. And – the KING clothes us with HIS righteousness. Matt22:2-14, Isaiah61:10, etcetera.
It all comes down to “draw near to God that He draws near to you”!
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Gadgeteer
Guest
Excellent. John7:24-27 — if our self worth is based on JESUS (the Rock!), then we do not need validation from fallible men; we are complete, because He loved us and died for us.Timothy524:
1. We must first own that we aren’t absolutely perfect and that only God is. Thus, we have no reason to be proud and boastful. The root of the problem is that we tend to think too highly of ourselves. We should focus more on how great God is and less on ourselves.
Spot on. For those unwilling to look up cited verses:
“For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?” 1Cor4:7
Add to that:
“Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.” James1:17
Yes. And — “resist the devil and he will flee; submit yourselves therefore to God. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.” James4
Many people read passages like Lk10:17-19 (we have authority over evil spirits!), but miss the key, in verse 20 — "Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits are subject to you. Rejoice instead that your names are written in Heaven."
The devil is wiley and crafty and has some smarts; but how smart was it to get kicked outta Heaven?
Don’t give him real-estate in your thoughts; for then you will be thinking about him, and you will be hating! He wins twice! No, fill your heart, soul and TIME full of Jesus’ and the Spirit’s presence, and you will have no room for evil!Excellent! In that, constantly regard Jesus as a real person with whom you have a real fellowship (1Jn1:3). This is the reality of our faith; we do not beat ourselves into righteousness, we draw near to Him!
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Gadgeteer
Guest
Timothy524:
By being still. Instead of talking to myself all the time, I should pause and be quiet to hear what God has to say. When I pray to our heavenly Father, I wish to open up a dialogue with Him. I tell Him all that’s making me anxious, then I stop to listen to what He has to say.
!!!“Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.” - Psalm 46, 10
As Christians, we may interpret the command to “be still” as "to be quiet in God’s presence.” Being in a state of quietness means, in this sense, putting an end to all frantic activity and putting down our arms. For us Christians, being “still” would involve looking to the Lord for our help (Exo 14:13) instead of engaging in a spiritual battle on our own against a much stronger foe than us. For God’s enemies, the dark forces that assail us, being “still” would mean ceasing to fight a battle they cannot win with God on our side. Further, the statement “Know (yada) that I am God” means “to properly ascertain by seeing”, "to acknowledge, and "to be aware.” Acknowledging God has an impact on our stillness. In this state, we see that He is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, holy, sovereign, faithful, infinite, and good. If we acknowledge God to be who He really is, we can then trust Him and surrender to His plan for us instead of relying on our selves in our spiritual battle. So lay down your arms and seek refuge in the Lord.
Yes. And as Jude says, “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.”Timothy524:
By being persuaded with the help of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the gift of knowledge being foremost.
Praying in the Holy Spirit — He’s a PERSON. We pray not empty prayers, but we communicate with He who indwells us. Eph5:18.
Timothy524:
By acknowledging that only God is absolutely perfect, and that all our personal assets are gifts from God which we have no claim to. Without Him, we are nothing.
That’s really it. Jeremiah29:11-13 applies to us too; "I know the plans I have for you, for prosperity and not adversity. Then you will come to Me and pray to Me and I will hear you. You will seek Me and you will find Me, when you search with all your heart; I will be found by you."Timothy524:
Keep in mind that God has different plans for each of us for His good purpose. ‘God works for the good to those who love Him’ (Rom 8:28). Essau was his own undoing for not loving God enough. His desire was more important to him than God. Our selfishness alienates us from God.
In John15, “every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit”. Why were we created? For HIS purpose(s). What is called “fruit”, is that which is useful to Him. Pruning hurts; the dead and wayward branches get cut off. But it increases our usefulness to Him.
Some things that we perceive as punishments are trials, and some are consequences we inadvertently chose by making wrong decisions. We can linger in hurt from them, or we can learn and grow.
James says (1:12) “blessed is he who perseveres under trials; for when he has (dokimos!) passed the test, he will will receive the Crown of Life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.” Dokimos also appears in 2Tim2:15, “be diligent to show yourself approved”.
GoodFella, well done – that is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on the internet.
:grouphug:
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Gadgeteer
Guest
Hi, James!
This is a Catholic board; I’m not going to “argue waterbaptism”. If you’re willing, I would like to cite a couple of verses, and let you make up your own mind.
“But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!” Luke12:50
But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?” Mark10:38
Jesus had already been waterbaptized — and He wasn’t going to be waterbaptized again. This “baptism” (the Greek baptizo simply means “immersed”), is speaking of His death and resurrection; the baptism, the cup. The “cup” is His death, Matt26:39, Jn18:11. I don’t think those two verses are speaking of “water”. Do you?
So – my question, when you or I read Romans6:3-5 (united with Him through baptism-into-death), and Eph4:5 (one Lord, one faith, one baptism) — are those two particular verses speaking of water?
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be (united with Him) in the likeness of His resurrection,
What do you think?
P
PNEUMA
Guest
Fruit = words (deeds) that glorify God
John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit”
As Jesus, Christians do wonders that glorify God, with words.
G
Gadgeteer
Guest
Ask a Calvinist, “Why would they WANT to sneak in and pretend to be saved”? Their doctrine is conflicted!
- Unless God sovereignly (monergistically) changes their heart first, they can only desire to pursue sin and reject God!
- But some can WANT to be saved (they look at Christians and envy their attitude), they can even believe and be JOYFUL (Lk8:13), but they’re not really saved, God never actually loved or wanted them!
Yes. And “impugns God’s character”, charges Him with causality in sin (doesn’t matter if it’s direct or indirect), denies our responsibility, destroys the motivation to share the Gospel, on and on.
G
Gadgeteer
Guest
You have it right. “Teleios”, complete/finished. IOW, righteous.
They are charged with guilt, they who continue in sin. Shall we start marking out verses, like 1Cor6:9-11, Eph5:5-6, and Gal5:19-21? And 1Jn3 (I think 5-10) is clear also.
It’s all back to “you will know them by their fruit (deeds); no good tree produces bad fruit, no bad tree produces good.”
It’s a question of focus; we do not do the good deeds to turn ourselves to righteousness, but rather we turn to Him (Malachi3:7, Isaiah45:22), and He then guides our steps Prov16:3, 9.
Paul concurs, Gal2:8-10; He has prepared good works beforehand that we might walk in them. Do we still have to pick up our feet and walk?
Yes.
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