A question about the afterlife?

[GEddie]

And how in the world did Wilde think one in eternal oblivion could “listen” – and be aware of the his physical surroundings – and be aware of experiencing an absence of time.
Apparently he didn’t really believe in the concept of oblivion.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

It’s a poetic statement, not meant to be analyzed in a prosaic way. And sometimes “silence is golden,” or, as Keats says, “Heard melodies are sweet but those unheard are sweeter.”

A “poetic” statement still needs to make sense if it is to mean anything, else the Purple Cow poem would be a profound statement. Likewise this one.

No melody can be sweet to those forever unable to hear.

ICXC NIKA

 

[meltzerboy]

A “poetic” statement still needs to make sense if it is to mean anything, else the Purple Cow poem would be a profound statement. Likewise this one.

No melody can be sweet to those forever unable to hear.

ICXC NIKA

I must disagree. In science and philosophy, what you say might be true: logic applies. But in the arts generally, and in certain genres of literature such as surrealist poetry and children’s fantasy literature (the latter not designed to be profound), mundane reality and logic are often superseded. And how about religion and its mysteries: do they make sense in the usual way?

 

[without]

Do you believe then, contrary to what some people of faith believe, that it is death which gives life its meaning?

For me, meaning comes from contributing to society and increasing the good (platonic). Like with science - new discoveries come from standing on the shoulders of those who have come before. I try to contribute so that humanity progresses. Death is simply inevitable for anything living. Like the cells of a body who are made, live and die while the body lives on, so am I born, contribute and then die while human society and all of life continues and grows.

and coffee “I have measured out my life with coffee spoons.” - T. S. Eliot

 

[without]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me it’s almost a necessity for an atheist to believe in oblivion (if for no other reason, then at least from an emotional/mental health perspective).

“believe” is probably not the correct word - I would say we “expect” oblivion.

“emotional/mental health perspective” confuses me. Hell is much more scary idea. Whether you go there or not, the guilt of knowing that there are other people and all of creation that will be eternally judged, as Jesus said “to bring fire on the earth” (Luke 12:49) would be much more damaging to one’s emotional/mental health. To me, the hope of oblivion is a preferred position for anyone with compassion.

For Atheist there is good news… the idea of god is dead and there is no hell.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . For Atheist there is good news… the idea of god is dead and there is no hell.

I see things differently, but I imagine you must be relieved knowing that you are right.
Imagine if you were wrong?
Don’t worry, from what you say, you love your neighbor, wishing well to all humanity.
It’s a little more complicated, but follow whatever it is that is informing your conscience in that direction.
If you want more however, give scripture/the Church a try.

 

[jochoa]

“Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one’s head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no tomorrow. To forget time, to forget life, to be at peace.”

As living humans, in consideration of oblivion as actuality, we have the option to begin “experiencing” oblivion at any moment. Therefore, if any human continually chooses to live in time with yesterdays, tomorrows, and remembrance, after declaring a belief in such a beautiful state, others can know that s/he is either lying or a hypocrite.

Now when I research Oscar Wilde, I find he continually lived (until 1900) after sharing such a belief (no later than 1887), and his death came by force (meningitis). Therefore, I find that either he did not fully believe “death/oblivion is beautiful,” or he was a hypocrite for not choosing death.

 

[without]

As living humans, in consideration of oblivion as actuality, we have the option to begin “experiencing” oblivion at any moment. Therefore, if any human continually chooses to live in time with yesterdays, tomorrows, and remembrance, after declaring a belief in such a beautiful state, others can know that s/he is either lying or a hypocrite.

Now when I research Oscar Wilde, I find he continually lived (until 1900) after sharing such a belief (no later than 1887), and his death came by force (meningitis). Therefore, I find that either he did not fully believe “death/oblivion is beautiful,” or he was a hypocrite for not choosing death.

wow… poetry people… for a religious forum I’m surprised by the angst and forced logic being applied to this quote. Art holds different meanings for each of us. It is at its best as an experience and made less by examination.

 

[Nita]

"“emotional/mental health perspective” confuses me. Hell is much more scary idea. Whether you go there or not, the guilt of knowing that there are other people and all of creation that will be eternally judged, as Jesus said “to bring fire on the earth” (Luke 12:49) would be much more damaging to one’s emotional/mental health.

Exactly. Faith in God and His revealed word is very scary for someone unwilling to give up a gravely sinful lifestyle - for someone who has no desire or intent to convert. That is why I said an atheist (someone who rejects God and His commands) would latch on to the concept of oblivion rather than credit the possibility of any sort of judgement by a Supreme Being for their thoughts, words and deeds that would be contrary to His will. It’s an attempt to do away with the emotional/mental scariness of what the judgement will be for refusing to convert. Matthew 13:15 For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears **they have **been dull of hearing, and their eyes **they have shut; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal **them.

To me, the hope of oblivion is a preferred position for anyone with compassionFor Atheist there is good news… the idea of god is dead and there is no hell.

And so, rather than face the reality of human life/actions having real meaning and purpose, subject to judgement and eternal consequences (which would be a source of emotional/mental strain for them), they are very likely to eagerly latch on to the concept of oblivion.

 

[jochoa]

wow… poetry people… for a religious forum I’m surprised by the angst and forced logic being applied to this quote. Art holds different meanings for each of us. It is at its best as an experience and made less by examination.

From your understandings of Wilde, do you believe he genuinely believed “Death must be so beautiful”? Also, I do not understand your last line, “it is at its best as an experience and made less by examination.” Would you please explain it to me in other words?

Also, was your earlier share meant to be poetic?

without:

Gods have eternity and therefor their actions are of no consequence. We get only one chance so our choices count.

I ask because your conclusion is not logical. If humans go to oblivion after this life, no human action matters. Whereas, the actions of eternal gods have real consequence, especially the actions with eternal consequences.

Thanks for your time and consideration! I look forward to further discussion!

 

[without]

And so, rather than face the reality of human life/actions having real meaning and purpose, subject to judgement and eternal consequences, those who reject God are very likely to eagerly latch on to the concept of oblivion.

Nita - I am me and not a they. As I stated before, “For me, meaning comes from contributing to society and increasing the good (platonic).”

My life has real meaning, purpose and eternal consequences… subject to judgement as well. Just not judgement by the invisible made up idea that you believe.

 

[Nita]

Nita - I am me and not a they.

My posts were not in reference to you personally/individually, but to atheists generally (they).

My life has real meaning, purpose and eternal consequences… subject to judgement as well. Just not judgement by the invisible made up idea that you believe.

Could you explain what you mean by your life having “eternal consequences” – eg. eternal consequences for whom? If for you personally, in what sense would the consequences be eternal?
Or do you just mean that everything you do has some an effect on others and how they act, which in turn can have an affect on those people and how they act, which… ad infinitum?

By “subject to judgement” do you mean judgement by humans affected by or aware of your acts? In other words, judgement by whom?

 

[lousyHorse]

I asked this question before several days ago, the reason why im asking this again is becuase even though some of the answers i received were great and did help me, but i didn’t felt like i got the answer i wanted to get. i would like to know what fellow believers thought on the topic.

My questions are what do you think of Oblivion after death or cessation of existence? ( for those who dont know its the belief that there is no afterlife, that death would be like the state one was before they were born, lack of awareness, thoughts or emotions), This belief is commonly held by atheists. If this was true, would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

I don’t believe that oblivion happens at death but i was thinking about it for a while and i was wondering what fellow Catholics and believers from different faiths thought of this.

so my questions are: What do you think of Oblivion (or cessation of existence at death)?
If it was true would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

 

[JRKH]

What do you think of Oblivion (or cessation of existence at death)?

As a concept…Better than a fiery hell - - - Not as good as heavenly bliss…

If it was true would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

Well if it is true - I won’t know until it happens and then it would matter since I won’t exist - and therefore can be neither comfortable or uncomfortable…

Peace
James

 

[Cricket2]

I asked this question before several days ago, the reason why im asking this again is becuase even though some of the answers i received were great and did help me, but i didn’t felt like i got the answer i wanted to get. i would like to know what fellow believers thought on the topic.

My questions are what do you think of Oblivion after death or cessation of existence? ( for those who dont know its the belief that there is no afterlife, that death would be like the state one was before they were born, lack of awareness, thoughts or emotions), This belief is commonly held by atheists. If this was true, would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

I don’t believe that oblivion happens at death but i was thinking about it for a while and i was wondering what fellow Catholics and believers from different faiths thought of this.

so my questions are: What do you think of Oblivion (or cessation of existence at death)?
If it was true would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

I think our Faith would dictate that we cannot accept the idea of oblivion as that would indicate a failure to believe in Heaven and Hell, or eternal life in general. I really don’t believe in oblivion and find the idea horrible. If that is all there is after this life why would anyone bother believing in God or moral behavior and doing good for others? I think believing in oblivion would be a way for some (and is for some) to live to the hilt, doing whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, regardless of others feelings, welfare or danger. It is a selfish notion.

 

[Ed_Silvia]

You may as well be asking, is there a God or not? I know of one way to get the answer you are looking for.

I could look up the verses where our Redeemer explains that I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him. Actually I did, Revelation 3:20

 

[steve_b]

I asked this question before several days ago, the reason why im asking this again is becuase even though some of the answers i received were great and did help me, but i didn’t felt like i got the answer i wanted to get. i would like to know what fellow believers thought on the topic.

My questions are what do you think of Oblivion after death or cessation of existence? ( for those who dont know its the belief that there is no afterlife, that death would be like the state one was before they were born, lack of awareness, thoughts or emotions), This belief is commonly held by atheists. If this was true, would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

I don’t believe that oblivion happens at death but i was thinking about it for a while and i was wondering what fellow Catholics and believers from different faiths thought of this.

so my questions are: What do you think of Oblivion (or cessation of existence at death)?
If it was true would you be comfortable with it? and if so why?

Does this answer your question? #15

 

[Nick44]

I don’t believe that oblivion happens at death but i was thinking about it for a while and i was wondering what fellow Catholics and believers from different faiths thought of this.

From the Baha’i sacred writings:

“Wert thou to ponder in thine heart the behavior of the Prophets of God thou wouldst assuredly and readily testify that there must needs be other worlds besides this world. The majority of the truly wise and learned have, throughout the ages, as it hath been recorded by the Pen of Glory in the Tablet of Wisdom, borne witness to the truth of that which the holy Writ of God hath revealed. Even the materialists have testified in their writings to the wisdom of these divinely-appointed Messengers, and have regarded the references made by the Prophets to Paradise, to hell fire, to future reward and punishment, to have been actuated by a desire to educate and uplift the souls of men. Consider, therefore, how the generality of mankind, whatever their beliefs or theories, have recognized the excellence, and admitted the superiority, of these Prophets of God. These Gems of Detachment are acclaimed by some as the embodiments of wisdom, while others believe them to be the mouthpiece of God Himself. How could such Souls have consented to surrender themselves unto their enemies if they believed all the worlds of God to have been reduced to this earthly life? Would they have willingly suffered such afflictions and torments as no man hath ever experienced or witnessed?”

Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, p. 157-8

 

[TimothyH]

This video answers everything anyone wants to know about the afterlife.

youtube.com/watch?v=yS2IBMQIjDo

-Tim-

 

[Michael_Francis]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/nun_slapping_ruler_hg_clr-2.gif
Duplicate threads merged…