A question for American Catholics

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Hi everyone. My name’s Terry Matheson and I’m a Restorationist Christian (Community of Christ/RLDS) from Utah. I’m currently a college student in New England. I’ve been investigating the Catholic Church and the more I read and learn, the more I think it may be God’s Church. I have one big question though but I’ll give some background first. I was checking out info on various Catholic message boards and I found some stuff that disturbed me. Maybe this message board wasn’t real Catholics… I would hope not… but anyway, on a message board that I found that was labeling itself as Catholic, there was a lot of hate speech and negativity about the United States. The stuff these people were saying were things like “God abhors America because it is a liberal democracy,” or “No one can be Catholic and be patriotic to the American masonic Constitution and we as Catholics ought to loathe America,” “individual liberty and freedom is an abomination to God” and “Since America wasn’t founded as a Catholic nation she and her supporters will face eternal hell fire.” Those were copy and paste lifts from the site I found… is this what the Catholic Church teaches about America? If it is, I’m not sure if I can go on trying to investigate the Church. I’m a proud, patriotic American… I love our Constitution, I love the concept of (classical) liberal democracy… Sorry to ask so many questions… I just really think that Catholics have it right but this anti-America/anti-liberty stuff I saw really disturbed me… Thanks!

-Terry Matheson
 
I love America. So much so that I took an oath to defend our Constitution and our citizens. I’m willing to give my life for both. Other Catholics are too. No, what you encountered is not Catholic teaching.

God bless you
 
Like others have said, that is not Catholic teaching. Here is a quote from the Catechism, so something that IS official Catholic teaching…
The love and service of one’s country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity.
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Thank you for your replies. I appreciate it! That makes me feel a lot better. To add on to this question, how does the Church see individual liberty? I get that it opposes “radical individualism” which is pretty understandable, but what is the line between radical individualism and the American tradition of individual freedom and liberty?
 
There are 65-68 million Catholics in the USA, and today anyone can have a blog or a Facebook page and claim that they speak for the Church. Catholics are not any different than any other Americans, they are split between being conservative and liberal, and have different opinions about different subjects.
 
QuestionUtah said:
Thank you for your replies. I appreciate it! That makes me feel a lot better. To add on to this question, how does the Church see individual liberty? I get that it opposes “radical individualism” which is pretty understandable, but what is the line between radical individualism and the American tradition of individual freedom and liberty?
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This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1738), "Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order.’
 
The best way for you to investigate the CAtholic faith and see what the Church teaches would be to go to a class that explains what the official doctrines of our faith are. These classes are called RCIA for short and any Catholic parish priest can direct you to the proper person to sign up. The purpose is just to teach, explain, answer specific questions and then you can either bow out gracefully or continue on in your formation to be received into the Church. Another way would be to get hold of a Catholic Catechism which spells out all the teachings in detail. You can find the teaching on any subject in this manual. A paperback version can be purchased for approx 8 dollars or, if you know a good Catholic, they would probably let you use theirs 🙂
The internet has just as much misinformation and it does true information and that is a problem in itself. You are welcome to hang out on this website or other similar ones and you will learn a lot, too. We love our faith, we love our neighbors and in general, try to follow Jesus in all we do and say. Welcome to Catholic Answers. Another good site is Catholics Come Home. They have a section devoted to inquiring people of all faiths or of none but hoping.
 
Actually the Declaration of Independence comes from teachings of the Catholic Church

1934 Created in the image of the one God and equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same origin. Redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ, all are called to participate in the same divine beatitude: all therefore enjoy an equal dignity.
1935 The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it:
  1. The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person. "The Church respects and encourages the political freedom and responsibility of the citizen
  2. Political authorities are obliged to respect the fundamental rights of the human person. They will dispense justice humanely by respecting the rights of everyone, especially of families and the disadvantaged. The political rights attached to citizenship can and should be granted according to the requirements of the common good. They cannot be suspended by public authorities without legitimate and proportionate reasons. Political rights are meant to be exercised for the common good of the nation and the human community. 357
 
The thing is, those are opinions that Catholics are free to hold, but the Catholic Church does not touch on them at all. Personally, while I would not go so far as those people, I am positively irked by people who profess loyalty to anyone other than to the Lord. The State is the State. It’s there. But I am not going to be profess loyalty to anyone except to Christ.
 
Terry, welcome to the forums! I would consider those message boards to be poison, as that is what they are spewing. Out of over one billion baptized members, there are certainly going to be those on the margins. it is truly sad that they claim to speak as children of the God of love.

For questionas about the faith, you are in the right place. These threads are very carefully moderated and all such material is promptly removed. Many here will gladly answer your questions, as the faith does produce questions in those from other faith traditions. It even produces a lot of questions from Catholics!

I would consider it a privilege to help in any way that I can. The Catholic Church will forever be incomplete without you, but seek the truth in all things and you will be well served.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
QuestionUtah said:
…“God abhors America because it is a liberal democracy,” or “No one can be Catholic and be patriotic to the American masonic Constitution and we as Catholics ought to loathe America,” “individual liberty and freedom is an abomination to God” and “Since America wasn’t founded as a Catholic nation she and her supporters will face eternal hell fire.” Those were copy and paste lifts from the site I found… is this what the Catholic Church teaches about America?
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Nope. I’m not sure why those people would think this is true, but considering the Vatican’s CDF (Doctrinal department, sorta, and probably one of the most important ones) and and a few other high profile people in Rome are Americans, and many if not all of the Bishops (Chaput, and the president of the USCCB whose name escapes me at the moment) the pope appointed for us are unquestionably and vocally patriotic, I’m not really sure where those people are getting the idea that that’s correct. But it’s certainly not an official belief.

The Knights of Columbus is an undeniably patriotic Catholic group as well, and their founder - Fr. McGivney - has been declared venerable, the first step on the path to sainthood.

I think this falls under the “there’s crazies in every group” law.
I’m a proud, patriotic American… I love our Constitution, I love the concept of (classical) liberal democracy…
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Me too.
 
Thanks for your kind replies everyone. I’m sure it seemed like a stupid one but there aren’t many Catholics where I’m from… Back in Utah there’s not many Catholics and my particular Church is the only one of it’s kind in the state, so religiously, I’m pretty isolated. Thanks for the Catechism quotes and such. I just went and checked out a copy from the university library. There’s two parishes I’ve found near me that say they are Catholic. One says Melkite Catholic, it’s a bit closer to me than the other that just says Catholic. Would this be ok to go to?
 
QuestionUtah said:
Thanks for your kind replies everyone. I’m sure it seemed like a stupid one but there aren’t many Catholics where I’m from… Back in Utah there’s not many Catholics and my particular Church is the only one of it’s kind in the state, so religiously, I’m pretty isolated. Thanks for the Catechism quotes and such. I just went and checked out a copy from the university library. There’s two parishes I’ve found near me that say they are Catholic. One says Melkite Catholic, it’s a bit closer to me than the other that just says Catholic. Would this be ok to go to?
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You are very welcome. The Melkite Catholics are in communion with Rome, but celebrate an Eastern Rite of Catholicism, which is the same liturgy, but celebrated in a more ancient and traditional form. It will appear more like an Orthodox Church liturgy. Here is a link to the Wiki article on the Melkite Rite.

You would benefit from experiencing both rites, as it will give you an idea of the universal nature of the Catholic Church. To assist you in your inquiry, I can wholeheartedly recommend the book Catholicism for Dummies. It is written by two extremely knowledgable Priests and will probably answer any question you might have. However, we are always here to answer questions, as well. This website is an amazing resource.

One caveat: Please refrain for receiving communion at either parish, as the Body of Christ is reserved for those in full communion with the Catholic Church. This is a sore spot with many Christians, but it will make sense as you learn the faith.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
QuestionUtah said:
Thanks for your kind replies everyone. I’m sure it seemed like a stupid one but there aren’t many Catholics where I’m from… Back in Utah there’s not many Catholics and my particular Church is the only one of it’s kind in the state, so religiously, I’m pretty isolated. Thanks for the Catechism quotes and such. I just went and checked out a copy from the university library. There’s two parishes I’ve found near me that say they are Catholic. One says Melkite Catholic, it’s a bit closer to me than the other that just says Catholic. Would this be ok to go to?
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The Catechism can also be found here online:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
Great to see another newcomer to the forums. Pretty new myself. Though I don’t consider myself a ‘patriotic American’ it is hardly my place to speak for God and pronounce judgment on 300 million people. You should generally be wary of those who see themselves as prophets or otherwise take it upon themselves to speak for God on matters the Church as not definitively spoken or on the spiritual state of specific individuals.

The United States is merely another one of God’s wayward children. The Church has not said that it is an anti-Christ or a nation set apart (i.e. ‘exceptional’). People of every land should love their country. This includes the United States, France, Russia, Japan, China, Iraq or Afghanistan. We must keep in mind that there is a difference between a country and the government that rules it. And as far as I know there is nothing in loving your country that requires you to hate the people of another country. There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism.
 
Thanks everybody. So if I do chose to pursue RCIA, I can keep admiring Thomas Jefferson, the Founders, and such and be a good Catholic? That’s what I’ve drawn from the resources you all have given me, so thank you. I think I’ll be sticking around here.
 
QuestionUtah said:
Hi everyone. My name’s Terry Matheson and I’m a Restorationist Christian (Community of Christ/RLDS) from Utah. I’m currently a college student in New England. I’ve been investigating the Catholic Church and the more I read and learn, the more I think it may be God’s Church. I have one big question though but I’ll give some background first. I was checking out info on various Catholic message boards and I found some stuff that disturbed me. Maybe this message board wasn’t real Catholics… I would hope not… but anyway, on a message board that I found that was labeling itself as Catholic, there was a lot of hate speech and negativity about the United States. The stuff these people were saying were things like “God abhors America because it is a liberal democracy,” or “No one can be Catholic and be patriotic to the American masonic Constitution and we as Catholics ought to loathe America,” “individual liberty and freedom is an abomination to God” and “Since America wasn’t founded as a Catholic nation she and her supporters will face eternal hell fire.” Those were copy and paste lifts from the site I found… is this what the Catholic Church teaches about America? If it is, I’m not sure if I can go on trying to investigate the Church. I’m a proud, patriotic American… I love our Constitution, I love the concept of (classical) liberal democracy… Sorry to ask so many questions… I just really think that Catholics have it right but this anti-America/anti-liberty stuff I saw really disturbed me… Thanks!

-Terry Matheson
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When a person lies out of both sides of his mouth, that means he’s really confused. It’s best to get out of religion altogether than to stay confused. At least you don’t have to lie about things you don’t understand.
 
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