A question for Biden’s fans

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RhodesianSon said:
That’s been exactly American foreign policy since at least the early 2000s though.
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I’m talking less about actual policy and more about the attitude of “I don’t care what any furr’ner thinks! This is Americuh!” It’s usually people who think America is the center of the universe and revel in not knowing anything about the rest of the world.
 
Right. Which I think pretty accurately describes “most” Americans. We’re not exactly geography experts.

Most of my neighbors have never traveled farther than to Lexington or Knoxville. I know a ton of people who have never been on a plane. In my immediate community I’m the only person who holds a passport and has ever left the US.

I’ve been all over the US, and spent a lot of time on 5 continents. I’m way better traveled than the average American that I’ve encountered.
 
RhodesianSon said:
Right. Which I think pretty accurately describes “most” Americans. We’re not exactly geography experts.
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I think you’re overstating the degree to which that attitude is common, but i agree it certainly exists. I guess I disagree that it’s a desirable trait. I’m not saying everyone needs to be a jetsetter or that you should vote based on German opinion polls, but a healthy respect for and basic literacy about the rest of the world is a good thing.

America isn’t an island and we don’t have a monopoly on good ideas. Proudly proclaiming that you don’t care what anyone else thinks is not a great plan for a country that still needs friends and allies. Especially when so much of our power and influence in the world is based on other countries admiring the American system and wanting to imitate it.
 
You’re not wrong. I just think the American century is over, and it’s time to focus inward. We have enough issues without trying to be a world leader. Time to step down and let someone else send their sons an daughters to die fighting for others freedoms.
 
Man, I love disagreements that don’t devolve into screaming and name calling.

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I imagine I’ll feel very sad either way. Not because the candidate I voted for lost or won but because of what our country has become. We’ve lost all ability to listen to one another. It just isn’t what I’ve always believed about the US anymore.
 
It all went wrong when we launched the 24 hour cable news networks. People don’t need to know what goes on 3 states away 10 seconds after it happened.
 
And those re the people who have believed every twisted headline!
 
RhodesianSon said:
It all went wrong when we launched the 24 hour cable news networks. People don’t need to know what goes on 3 states away 10 seconds after it happened.
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I see much truth in that. Social media is also a blessing and a curse in that respect. I’ve also said this before but I think our failing to adequately teach civics and history is another part of the problem. My parents in the greatest generation never could’ve imagined all of this.
 
I think the churches teaching on subsidiarity needs pushed harder. Everyone would be much happier if instead of trying to change the world we cared much more about what was happening in our communities and actually knew our neighbors, and took care of those around instead of worrying about people and things we’ll never see, and will forget about when the next big story comes along.
 
Yes, this would also give us far more sense of investment, which is sorely lacking today.
 
RhodesianSon said:
It all went wrong when we launched the 24 hour cable news networks.
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It all went wrong when we legalized abortion.

It’s an issue for which there is no real compromise, America divided itself into camps, and we’ve never seen peace since .

(And I think we never will)
 
scousekiwi said:
Something that Americans often seem oddly unaware of is how unpopular Trump is abroad
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Actually, people are aware that Trump is not popular in Europe. Israel is a totally different story - many people love him there, I’ve seen it in person. But I digress.

Trump’s unpopularity abroad, and I would venture to say, especially with people like yourself, is one reason why Trump’s base liked him. A lot of Amurricans don’t want to be like Europe. They don’t like European government, they couldn’t care less for the opinions of European countries or European citizens, and they resented Obama trying to make the US “more like Europe”. That sort of thinking is associated with liberals, especially wealthy liberals of the type who travel to Europe and come back grousing about why we can’t have more nice little pedestrian malls and sidewalk cafes here. Many people think of European countries and commonwealth countries as being welfare states where the government has very little respect for individual rights and levies high taxes on those who work hard in order to support people who lay around doing nothing. “Nanny state” basically.

I have to say that what people in other countries think of a US presidential candidate is not on my radar at all, unless they have US voting rights and vote here. And that goes for every single election, not just ones with Trump in them. I don’t expect people in foreign countries to pick a candidate based on whether I, in the US, like him either.
 
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Quite a few of the younger generation here would vote Trump if he were an Aussie. He is popular here in places.
My kids would vote for him.

Jacinta Arden is not that popular here. There was that issue…
scousekiwi said:
Outside the US, people are appalled that anybody can vote for this man.
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Tis_Bearself said:
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scousekiwi:
Something that Americans often seem oddly unaware of is how unpopular Trump is abroad
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Actually, people are aware that Trump is not popular in Europe. Israel is a totally different story - many people love him there, I’ve seen it in person. But I digress.

Trump’s unpopularity abroad, and I would venture to say, especially with people like yourself, is one reason why Trump’s base liked him. A lot of Amurricans don’t want to be like Europe. They don’t like European government, they couldn’t care less for the opinions of European countries or European citizens, and they resented Obama trying to make the US “more like Europe”. That sort of thinking is associated with liberals, especially wealthy liberals of the type who travel to Europe and come back grousing about why we can’t have more nice little pedestrian malls and sidewalk cafes here. Many people think of European countries and commonwealth countries as being welfare states where the government has very little respect for individual rights and levies high taxes on those who work hard in order to support people who lay around doing nothing. “Nanny state” basically.
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What a colorful imagination you have.
 
She pretty succinctly described the opinions of most everyone I know.
 
Perhaps those people should travel more. Europe is an enormous continent with a tremendously varied population. How strange to paint with such a broad brush.
 
I do think most people should travel more, as I said above I’ve been all over the world and it’s certainly helped shape my opinions. But for your average blue collar worker they don’t have the means, I know people that have never left Kentucky. Yet alone the country.
 
RhodesianSon said:
I do think most people should travel more, as I said above I’ve been all over the world and it’s certainly helped shape my opinions. But for your average blue collar worker they don’t have the means, I know people that have never left Kentucky. Yet alone the country.
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First of all, A plus avatar picture, Rusty.

But on the larger point, I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem that some people are provincial in outlook and prefer Kraft singles to Brie. There’s no obligation to be some kind of world traveler, and people shouldn’t have an inferiority complex about not following whatever the global trend is.

The problem, in my mind, is that the attitude of “this is America, we don’t care about what anyone else thinks” celebrates ignorance and is, frankly, obnoxious. It’s like we’ve adopted a bratty child’s mentality as our national psyche. As I said, America isn’t always the best at everything. We don’t have a monopoly on good ideas. Knowing and appreciating other systems and cultures doesn’t mean you have to abandon your own necessarily. Maybe, shockingly enough, there are actually some good ideas out there we might want to consider.

Also, to make an obvious point, a lot of these countries are reliable trading partners and military allies. For all of our differences, we have a lot in common culturally, we help each other’s citizens abroad, and we’ve fought alongside each other numerous times. Claiming that a reason to support Trump is that he bothers those effete Europeans is just misplaced resentment from people who feel looked down upon.

To be clear, I’m not saying that world opinion is necessarily a reason to not vote for Trump if you support him otherwise. But actually turning it into a reason to vote for him is silly.

There’s a word for people who delight in pointlessly poking people in the eye just to see them get riled up: “troll.” Let’s not be a nation of trolls.
 
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