A Question for both Catholics and Protestants

[Sepharad]

This is a question that I’ve had over the years, and have noticed this time and time again.

Let’s say someone comes to this forum, or any Christian forum for that matter, and says, “I am a Jew/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu, whatever”. They are usually treated far nicer and with more respect than if they were to come to a religious Christian forum and say, “I am a Jew/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu” but I used to be a born again Christian/Catholic".

IOW why are they treated nicer if they were never part of your religion at all, than if they once were and joined another?

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

I haven’t noticed this, but, some people have the attitude that they are “ignorant” and just don’t know, whereas those who were once Catholic (especially) knew the truth and abandoned it.

I guess they just don’t understand that knowing the truth goes far beyond simply reason. You have to know in your heart, and that takes nourishments with the Sacraments and time. It’s called growing in Faith, Hope, and Charity.

Some people who left the Church will tell you that they never felt spiritually nourished.

 

[Sepharad]

I haven’t noticed this, but, some people have the attitude that they are “ignorant” and just don’t know, whereas those who were once Catholic (especially) knew the truth and abandoned it.

I guess they just don’t understand that knowing the truth goes far beyond simply reason. You have to know in your heart, and that takes nourishments with the Sacraments and time. It’s called growing in Faith, Hope, and Charity.

Some people who left the Church will tell you that they never felt spiritually nourished.

I think its wrong for anyone to assume that just because someone used to be a Catholic, that they automatically “knew the truth”. What if they were baptized as a baby but it ended there?

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

I think its wrong for anyone to assume that just because someone used to be a Catholic, that they automatically “knew the truth”. What if they were baptized as a baby but it ended there?

I agree. Unfortunately, some people may not even think things like this consciously - it may be a subconscious resentment that they left the Church.

I felt something similar in my traditionalist Roman Catholic parish when I had to go because of my “heretical” beliefs, despite how quiet I was about them so as to not “disturb the peace”. I had to leave while practitioners of Santeria prayed in strange ways that even disturbed Father, slept in the Church, etc. They were never told anything, I was outright asked to leave. I think it’s a resentment when it hits “closer to home”.

 

[ibkc]

I think that what you are seeing is a defensive reflex. We see all too often that some ex-Christians come onto Christian apologetics forums for the explicit purpose of aggressive argument, and not to debate in good faith. It is a shame that we can’t assume the best of everyone, but the reaction of “once bitten twice shy” is simply human nature.

 

[Pro_Domina]

To be born messed up is bad.

To be born ok and then mess it up is worst.

To be born wrong and not change is stupid.

To be born on the right path and then jump off a cliff is not only stupid, but if you survive you are a waste of oxygen.

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

To be born on the right path and then jump off a cliff is not only stupid, but if you survive you are a waste of oxygen.

Or a walking miracle of God. Depends how you see things.

 

[Sepharad]

Jonathan, Can you PM me with websites that have info on the Old Catholics? (I noticed your sig line). I was always curious about them, and yes I know they are not the same thing as the Traditionalist Latin Rite Catholics of today!

 

[ralphinal]

I have seen this occur. At times, the person is now a frothing at the mouth anti-Catholic. At times, they are not but the other posters assume they are. Almost always, they have an intention of getting others to jump ship with them.

More often then not, the most hate-filled anti-Catholics are former Catholics. Lots of reasons for this.

Go or stay. Just don’t try to get me to do the same based on your understanding, misunderstanding, hurt feelings, or whatever else lead you down that road. I will gladly discuss, and generally, I will be patient and charitable, but I will not be moved.

 

[Sepharad]

I have seen this occur. At times, the person is now a frothing at the mouth anti-Catholic. At times, they are not but the other posters assume they are. Almost always, they have an intention of getting others to jump ship with them.

More often then not, the most hate-filled anti-Catholics are former Catholics. Lots of reasons for this.

Go or stay. Just don’t try to get me to do the same based on your understanding, misunderstanding, hurt feelings, or whatever else lead you down that road. I will gladly discuss, and generally, I will be patient and charitable, but I will not be moved.

This sounds, almost word for word, what I read earlier this morning at an Orthodox Jewish forum I lurk at! Someone posted a link to a website of a guy who was born Jewish, converted to Greek Orthodox, and now has a hate campaign going against Jews at his website online.

The moderator of the forum said that he wishes such Jews would just convert and immerse themselves in their new religion, and forget about their former co-religionists, and stop trying to convert us or bash us. Basically what you were saying about ex-Catholics.

 

[TriuneUnity]

This sounds, almost word for word, what I read earlier this morning at an Orthodox Jewish forum I lurk at! Someone posted a link to a website of a guy who was born Jewish, converted to Greek Orthodox, and now has a hate campaign going against Jews at his website online.

The moderator of the forum said that he wishes such Jews would just convert and immerse themselves in their new religion, and forget about their former co-religionists, and stop trying to convert us or bash us. Basically what you were saying about ex-Catholics.

I think in some cases it is an attempt by the individual to justify their decision to leave their former religion. If Judaism is evil then it makes it more rational to have left that faith. The same is true among many former Catholics. Rather than relying on Scriptural/historical reasons, it must be due to some moral defect in the former faith. Now that’s not always the case since in many cases someone’s former religion may indeed have been cultic or nefarious in some way.

 

[ralphinal]

This sounds, almost word for word, what I read earlier this morning at an Orthodox Jewish forum I lurk at! Someone posted a link to a website of a guy who was born Jewish, converted to Greek Orthodox, and now has a hate campaign going against Jews at his website online.

The moderator of the forum said that he wishes such Jews would just convert and immerse themselves in their new religion, and forget about their former co-religionists, and stop trying to convert us or bash us. Basically what you were saying about ex-Catholics.

I have never met someone who converted into Catholicism and held anything but love for his former faith. They always see it as bringing them as far as it could, then the Catholic Church carries them the rest of the way. Former Catholics, all too often, see the Catholic Church has holding them back, and they resent it. That is assuming that they do not have “personal” reasons for leaving.

I would assume the Jewish folks see the same thing.

 

[ChristianKnight]

I am usually agressive on forums, but when I came to this one, I decided to be as respectful as I can, some of have been respectful back, some have been rude, but either way, respect is what we need to focus on.

 

[Sepharad]

I have never met someone who converted into Catholicism and held anything but love for his former faith. They always see it as bringing them as far as it could, then the Catholic Church carries them the rest of the way. Former Catholics, all too often, see the Catholic Church has holding them back, and they resent it. That is assuming that they do not have “personal” reasons for leaving.

I would assume the Jewish folks see the same thing.

Do you guys (Catholics or Protestants, either one) have to deal with anything like this?

realjewnews.com/

(BTW this guy is not an anomaly by any means…historically there have been other Jews who converted to other religions, then turned around and did things like this.)

 

[ralphinal]

Do you guys (Catholics or Protestants, either one) have to deal with anything like this?

realjewnews.com/

(BTW this guy is not an anomaly by any means…historically there have been other Jews who converted to other religions, then turned around and did things like this.)

Oh yes. Lots of times. Now, he seems a little out there. I would agree that the ACLU is the anti-Christ, but not because there are Jews in it.

I assure you there are all kinds of former Catholics who hold these kinds of ideas.

As an aside, it seems to me that in modern times, Orthodox folks are more anti-semetic. What is your take on it?

 

[scipio337]

This sounds, almost word for word, what I read earlier this morning at an Orthodox Jewish forum I lurk at! Someone posted a link to a website of a guy who was born Jewish, converted to Greek Orthodox, and now has a hate campaign going against Jews at his website online.

The moderator of the forum said that he wishes such Jews would just convert and immerse themselves in their new religion, and forget about their former co-religionists, and stop trying to convert us or bash us. Basically what you were saying about ex-Catholics.

True.

From my short time here, the most obvious reason a former Catholic would post is to tell us the error of our ways, and invite us to joint their newfound, “true” faith.

Probably the same reason most Othodox Jews I know aren’t fans of Jews for Jesus, etc. I think most of us take our faiths, and perceived insults to them, very personally.

 

[SD_Catholic]

I have never met someone who converted into Catholicism and held anything but love for his former faith. They always see it as bringing them as far as it could, then the Catholic Church carries them the rest of the way. Former Catholics, all too often, see the Catholic Church has holding them back, and they resent it. That is assuming that they do not have “personal” reasons for leaving.

I would assume the Jewish folks see the same thing.

I know of a few on this forum that came from JW or LDS that would just about meet the criteria of resentment… not all, but some really felt abandoned by all their former family and friends when they left their former church… just my 2 pennies worth

SD

 

[ralphinal]

I know of a few on this forum that came from JW or LDS that would just about meet the criteria of resentment… not all, but some really felt abandoned by all their former family and friends when they left their former church… just my 2 pennies worth

SD

True. I should have mentioned that. There seems to be two reasons for this. In the case of the JWs, they are prevented from a lot of things, like education. In both cases, they feel lied to about God. More importantly, and you mentioned this, they are abandoned by friends and family, some even forced to move to start a new life. How tragic.

 

[inJESUS]

I had the same thoughts while reading Tahira’s thread.

I personally rarely contribute to “inter-Christian” debates. From where i come, we can be 20 Christians sitting in one room, without knowing who is Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant (rare anyway). We know that we are Christians and a Protestant to me is a Christian whether he asks the intercession of saints or not …

Regarding non-Christians, if someone comes to this forum telling me he is converting to any other religion, and that he is stating a fact and not looking for answers, i dust off my sandals and wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep over it.

If someone is interested in a religion without knowing it, i contribute if i happen to know of what he’s asking about.

 

[Sepharad]

Oh yes. Lots of times. Now, he seems a little out there. I would agree that the ACLU is the anti-Christ, but not because there are Jews in it.

I assure you there are all kinds of former Catholics who hold these kinds of ideas.

As an aside, it seems to me that in modern times, Orthodox folks are more anti-semetic. What is your take on it?

I hate the ACLU too, but the Jews in it are the antireligious and secular ones anyway.

And yes, I have noticed that the Orthodox (Christians) are more antisemitic…maybe because they tend to be ethnically-identified, and usually with ethnicities that never liked Jews anyway. Though that might not be the only reason for it.