A question for Catholic libertarians

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The early Christian community described in Acts did not practise ‘Communism’.

By Marxism, I refer to the means of production being controlled by the state and to the abolition of private property.
As far as, “The early Christian community described in Acts did not practise ‘Communism’”.

Communism may not have been “thought up and written about” as an ideology at the time of the earliest Church but if it was not Communism, in you opinion, what would you call it?

Acts 2: 42-45

“They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers. Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need.”

You may not like the word “Communism” but like it or not, if this isn’t “pure” Communism, than what is?

Concerning, “By Marxism, I refer to the means of production being controlled by the state and to the abolition of private property.” insert Church in place of state and no need to change anything about “the abolition of private property” since they were doing that, what is the “difference” between what the earliest Church was doing and your definition?
 
As far as, “The early Christian community described in Acts did not practise ‘Communism’”.

Communism may not have been “thought up and written about” as an ideology at the time of the earliest Church but if it was not Communism, in you opinion, what would you call it?
The Book of Acts is describing the first vestige of what would later become ‘Monasticism’ or the ‘religious life’. It is not providing a blueprint for secular society. Communism is an economic theory and political ideology, not an ecclesiastical concept like the monastic ideal. There is a huge difference between the first Christians voluntarily surrendering their claims to exclusive ownership over their property in the interests of the church and all property in a secular society being forcibly nationalized by the state:

newadvent.org/cathen/04179a.htm
The communistic principle governed for a time the lives of the first Christians of Jerusalem. In the fourth chapter of the Acts of the Apostles we learn that none of the brethren called anything that he possessed his own; that those who had houses and lands sold them and laid the price at the feet of the Apostles, who distributed “to everyone according as he had need”. Inasmuch as they made no distinction between citizens and slaves, these primitive Christians were in advance of the communism of Plato. Their communism was, moreover, entirely voluntary and spontaneous. The words of St. Peter to Ananias prove that individual Christians were quite free to retain their private property. Finally, the arrangement did not long continue, nor was it adopted by any of the other Christian bodies outside of Jerusalem. Hence the assertion that Christianity was in the beginning communistic is a gross exaggeration. And the claim that certain Fathers of the Church, notably Ambrose, Augustine, Basil, Chrysostom, and Jerome, condemned all private property and advocated communism, is likewise unwarranted. Most of the religious, that is, ascetic and monastic orders and communities which have existed, both within and without the Christian fold, exhibit some of the features of communism. The Buddhist monks in India, the Essenes in Judea, and the Therapeutæ in Egypt, all excluded private ownership and led a common life.** The religious communities of the Catholic Church have always practised common ownership of goods, both productive (whenever they possessed these) and non-productive. Their communism differs, however, from that of the economic communists in that its primary object is not and never has been social reform or a more just distribution of goods. The spiritual improvement of the individual member and the better fulfilment of their charitable mission, such as instructing the young or caring for the sick and infirm, are the ends that they have chiefly sought. These communities insist, moreover, that their mode of life is adapted only to the few. For these reasons we find them always apart from the world, making no attempt to bring in any considerable portion of those without**, and observing celibacy. One important feature of economic communism is wanting to nearly all religious communities, namely, common ownership and management of the material agents of production from which they derive their sustenance. In this respect they are more akin to wage-earning bodies than to communistic organizations.
 
There is a huge difference between the first Christians voluntarily surrendering their claims to exclusive ownership over their property in the interests of the church and all property in a secular society being nationalized by the state.
I was just about to say this. The fact that the early Christians did this voluntarily makes a huge difference. Dividing resources equally among a community isn’t a bad thing: what’s wrong is forcing people to participate in this kind of system. Not to mention the societal and economic problems that this could cause on a national scale.
 
So are you suggesting that the “state” referred to by the Church is simply any societal/communal means of protecting the basic human rights of the people, as opposed to a governing force that controls society through coercion? That seems to fit rather well with voluntaryism.
Unfortunately, the Church doesn’t have an official definition for the state, but, thankfully, it does have one for authority (CCC 1897-98):
1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15
By “authority” one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them.
1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.16 The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.
So, the Catechism doesn’t require an arbitrary, centralized body miles away telling us what to do, but it does tell us we need some people to complete the task of maintaining the common good, insofar it is being done as a service to the person, rather than attempting to make that person dependent on the authorities for life’s needs. And we saw this type of authority in the Book of Judges, where authority was mainly in the hands of local elders and tribal leaders. As to your question, the state does have some coercive power to maintain the common good, whether to keep people from killing one another, or to be able to achieve social justice when private means fail. With subsidiarity in mind though, society should be quite voluntary, but force and coercion will be needed in times of crisis.
 
UAs to your question, the state does have some coercive power to maintain the common good, whether to keep people from killing one another, or to be able to achieve social justice when private means fail. With subsidiarity in mind though, society should be quite voluntary, but force and coercion will be needed in times of crisis.
This is where I would have to disagree. If we’re following the non-aggression principle (which is one of the foundations of libertarian/anarchist philosophy) the initiation of force by the state is never justified. In the example of murder the state is not the one initiation force: coercive means are justified in cases of defense. My concerns are about the state being the one to initiate force, which is a natural consequence of any form of human government.
 
Could you provide some examples of when state intervention is justified? Do you mean intervention beyond what the non-aggression principle would allow?

Regarding the rights to food, health care, etc., how would you suggest an anarchist society deals with this? It wouldn’t be possible for the state to provide these things to everyone without the use of coercion through taxation. Shouldn’t that type of redistribution only be justified when specific individuals are directly denying people of these basic resources? And couldn’t social programs to solve these problems be funded voluntarily without the state getting involved?

Thanks for the in-depth response, as well as for the links. I’ll definitely be looking into the “primacy of the person” concept.
I had just wrote a bunch of stuff but it was too much and I tried to copy and paste it the rest in a second reply but somehow I lost it so I’ll just try to summarize what I said:
Basically you just gotta remember subsidiarity in all of this: local voluntary means MUST be tried before trying to get local govt in everything. Taxation is only morally legitimate when it is all private means have failed and it is in view of the common good. If it is within these bounds then it is justice, but when it isn’t, it’s simply stealing. After all, in the words of St. Augustine: “Without justice, what are kingdoms but great robberies?”
Primacy of the person is a great concept and it’s tied into the philosophy of personalism, of which Pope JPII was a proponent of. A great definition is found at the Catholic Worker Movement, which is a Catholic anarchist organization you should take a look at:
–Personalism, a philosophy which regards the freedom and dignity of each person as the basis, focus and goal of all metaphysics and morals. In following such wisdom, we move away from a self-centered individualism toward the good of the other. This is to be done by taking personal responsibility for changing conditions, rather than looking to the state or other institutions to provide impersonal “charity.” We pray for a Church renewed by this philosophy and for a time when all those who feel excluded from participation are welcomed with love, drawn by the gentle personalism Peter Maurin taught.
Peace
 
This is where I would have to disagree. If we’re following the non-aggression principle (which is one of the foundations of libertarian/anarchist philosophy) the initiation of force by the state is never justified. In the example of murder the state is not the one initiation force: coercive means are justified in cases of defense. My concerns are about the state being the one to initiate force, which is a natural consequence of any form of human government.
In the Church’s teaching, a strict version of NAP might have to be broken in order to maintain the common good. However, I am saying that if someone is being denied the basic needs of survival, this is a form of aggression against the life of that person, and property rights will be compromised for the sake of preserving the life of an individual. Some may believe that NAP protect all property, even when those property rights are keeping someone from getting their basic needs. But I believe that refusing to give up some of your resources when someone is struggling for survival is a form of aggression against their life.
 
In the Church’s teaching, a strict version of NAP might have to be broken in order to maintain the common good. However, I am saying that if someone is being denied the basic needs of survival, this is a form of aggression against the life of that person, and property rights will be compromised for the sake of preserving the life of an individual. Some may believe that NAP protect all property, even when those property rights are keeping someone from getting their basic needs. But I believe that refusing to give up some of your resources when someone is struggling for survival is a form of aggression against their life.
I agree completely: denying others of the basic resources required to live is a form of aggression. Communities certainly should get involved when this happens. What I’m referring to is being forced to recognize the “authority” of specific individuals to force people in a community to pool together their resources to solve this problem. I understand that human error needs to be taken into account when considering voluntaryism, but what gives specific people the authority to collect taxes in these situations?
 
I agree completely: denying others of the basic resources required to live is a form of aggression. Communities certainly should get involved when this happens. What I’m referring to is being forced to recognize the “authority” of specific individuals to force people in a community to pool together their resources to solve this problem. I understand that human error needs to be taken into account when considering voluntaryism, but what gives specific people the authority to collect taxes in these situations?
Free association is what gives people this authority. If people wish to be given the protection and benefits of a community, they must agree to their rules, and to enforce them. The authority (whether it be an official leader or the people in general) has the right to tax them when it is morally legitimate to do so.

However, I mean this in an anarchist sense. In Catholicism, all legitimate authority is derived from God, and legitimate authority is defined as this (CCC 1903):
1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, "authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse."23
Consent of the governed doesn’t legitimize authority, but the common good. Many Catholics have a variety of valid opinions as to what makes up the best government, but I believe that a society based on free association rather than imposed authority is the best option and fits best into the subsidiarity and personalism principles.
 
Free association is what gives people this authority. If people wish to be given the protection and benefits of a community, they must agree to their rules, and to enforce them. The authority (whether it be an official leader or the people in general) has the right to tax them when it is morally legitimate to do so.
In this case the state/authority is not using coercion to collect these taxes: it’s entirely voluntary for the people participating.
Consent of the governed doesn’t legitimize authority, but the common good. Many Catholics have a variety of valid opinions as to what makes up the best government, but I believe that a society based on free association rather than imposed authority is the best option and fits best into the subsidiarity and personalism principles.
But can an authority that collects taxes by force really supporting the “common good”? At what point does the evil of taxation outweigh the good done by any programs those taxes fund? Sorry if I’m missing something here, I’m just trying to better understand your position.
 
But can an authority that collects taxes by force really supporting the “common good”?
What major government today does not have a tax collection policy which is forced on the people?
I don;t see how you are going to do away with taxation in the USA. The military would not stand for it. It is possible to reform the present system of taxation, in many different ways, such as putting in place a flat tax. In Russia, the maximum tax allowed is at the 13% level. Doing away with all the loopholes and deductions, it seems to me that a flat tax of 13% is the best way to go.
 
What major government today does not have a tax collection policy which is forced on the people?
I assume you used the word “major” so you would not have to deal with any real world examples. Let me offer the independent state of Vatican City as a sovereign state/government that exists purely on voluntary contributions. There are other historical examples, such as the Free State of Iceland (930 AD -1262 AD).
 
This…
“…109. The ultimate consequences of the individualist spirit in economic life are those which you yourselves, Venerable Brethren and Beloved Children, see and deplore: Free competition has destroyed itself; economic dictatorship has supplanted the free market; unbridled ambition for power has likewise succeeded greed for gain; all economic life has become tragically hard, inexorable, and cruel. To these are to be added the grave evils that have resulted from an intermingling and shameful confusion of the functions and duties of public authority with those of the economic sphere - such as, one of the worst, the virtual degradation of the majesty of the State, which although it ought to sit on high like a queen and supreme arbitress, free from all partiality and intent upon the one common good and justice, is become a slave, surrendered and delivered to the passions and greed of men. And as to international relations, two different streams have issued from the one fountain-head: On the one hand, economic nationalism or even economic imperialism; on the other, a no less deadly and accursed internationalism of finance or international imperialism whose country is where profit is…”
- Pope Pius XI (Quadragesimo Anno), 1931
And this:
“…168. The responsibility for attaining the common good, besides falling to individual persons, belongs also to the State, since the common good is the reason that the political authority exists. (Cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1910.) The State, in fact, must guarantee the coherency, unity and organization of the civil society of which it is an expression, in order that the common good may be attained with the contribution of every citizen. The individual person, the family or intermediate groups are not able to achieve their full development by themselves for living a truly human life. Hence the necessity of political institutions, the purpose of which is to make available to persons the necessary material, cultural, moral and spiritual goods. The goal of life in society is in fact the historically attainable common good…”
- Compendium of the social doctrine of the Church
…cannot be reconciled with left-wing “anarchism” or right-wing “libertarianism”.

Libertarianism and the economic liberalism which accompanies it is not in any sense ‘Catholic’. Libertarianism lacks any conception of the ‘common good’. This spirit of extreme individualism is straight out of the enlightenment and has as its basis a heretical anthropology of human nature. Catholic thought recognizes the natural rights of individuals but within a holistic, corporative framework.

It truly amazes me how many Catholics, both on the extreme left and right poles of the political spectrum, manipulate our social doctrine to serve their own interests and try to align Holy Mother Church with condemned philosophies.

As I said on another sub-forum, a Catholic can quite legitimately position himself/herself to the moderate ‘right’ or ‘left’ of the political system dependent upon the exigencies of the system he or she finds himself/herself in but we do have limits to what we can legitimately hold: on the right - fascism, laissez-faire capitalism and libertarianism. On the left - Marxism, socialist collectivism and anarchism.

As it is, Dorothy Day lived a very saintly life and could one day be canonized on that basis but her anarchist beliefs have never been endorsed by the church. Her life was saintly, her political beliefs were severely flawed.
 
In this case the state/authority is not using coercion to collect these taxes: it’s entirely voluntary for the people participating.

But can an authority that collects taxes by force really supporting the “common good”? At what point does the evil of taxation outweigh the good done by any programs those taxes fund? Sorry if I’m missing something here, I’m just trying to better understand your position.
It is admittedly hard to defend a completely libertarian view from a Catholic perspective, that’s why I said earlier that I can’t properly describe myself as purely libertarian in principle. However, Pope Francis once responded to accusations of being a Marxist by saying how Marxism is wrong but he knows many Marxists who are good people, so he doesn’t get offended. I think that can be somewhat applied to libertarianism, because if we preached subsidiarity to its fullest, we would probably be accused of being libertarians or anarchists because of our defense of liberty and limited government. However, as Catholics, we must admit the need for some (theoretical) intervention in the name of the common good.

Yes it would be voluntary, but that’s why I said I’m speaking from an anarchist view. This has put me in a difficult position because the Church doesn’t require free association in order for authority to be legitimate, but I think that this would be the best plan because I believe an anarchistic society would best fulfill the principles of subsidiarity and personalism, and Reep pointed out Medieval Iceland, which is a good example of a successful voluntaryist society. What anarchists call government can be the same as what the Church calls the state, and I think a lot of confusion comes about from the multitude of meanings. I do believe that government must have some coercive power (only to be used for justice), but I prefer free association. After all, St. Paul said “Shall not work, shall not eat”, so if someone refuses to contribute to the common good, why should he receive the common good? Either way, everyone, even in a voluntaryist society, is going to be under some kind of judicial authority if they commit aggression against someone. Israelite society during the Judges period is a prime example of how society should be organized IMO, and earlier I cited something from An Anarchist FAQ, which gives a description that’s pretty close to what I think society should look like.

Yes, the common good must be fulfilled, even if that means using force. And as for “the evil of taxation”, a tax is just only when it is used for justice. A tax that is exacted with no view toward the common good or is obtained in morally illicit ways (ex. When it ignores subsidiarity) is not just and is merely theft. Just taxation is not evil, and if we were to use evil methods to create good ends, then we would be letting the ends justify the means, which is against Church teaching. The vast majority of taxation is theft, and I think most taxation would vanish if we revolutionized society into a personalist, subsidiaritist one, where private means would be tried first to fund society.
 
This…

And this:

…cannot be reconciled with left-wing “anarchism” or right-wing “libertarianism”.

Libertarianism and the economic liberalism which accompanies it is not in any sense ‘Catholic’. Libertarianism lacks any conception of the ‘common good’. This spirit of extreme individualism is straight out of the enlightenment and has as its basis a heretical anthropology of human nature. Catholic thought recognizes the natural rights of individuals but within a holistic, corporative framework.

It truly amazes me how many Catholics, both on the extreme left and right poles of the political spectrum, manipulate our social doctrine to serve their own interests and try to align Holy Mother Church with condemned philosophies.

As I said on another sub-forum, a Catholic can quite legitimately position himself/herself to the moderate ‘right’ or ‘left’ of the political system dependent upon the exigencies of the system he or she finds himself/herself in but we do have limits to what we can legitimately hold: on the right - fascism, laissez-faire capitalism and libertarianism. On the left - Marxism, socialist collectivism and anarchism.

As it is, Dorothy Day lived a very saintly life and could one day be canonized on that basis but her anarchist beliefs have never been endorsed by the church. Her life was saintly, her political beliefs were severely flawed.
Well, the thing that a lot of people don’t see is that anarchists do in fact believe in quite a bit of government, they just reject a centralized, bureaucratic state with top-down authority, which is a view that I find to fit quite well with the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, which itself calls for a decentralized society. What the Church calls the state is many times the same as what anarchists call government (when distinguishing it from their own definition of the state). I myself am against this centralized state and consider myself an anarchist for that reason, and I instead believe in the decentralization of authority in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity with a bottom-up view of government, which would fall under the Catholic conception of the state and would, in fact, be more consistent with Catholic social teaching. Dorothy Day had a similar view, and her self-description as an anarchist is accurate, but this self-description has caused problems for her because of the confusion over the term “anarchism”, even though her views were in line with Catholicism. Many other great figures in Catholic social teaching, such as G.K. Chesterton, Hilaire Belloc, and Vincent McNabb all had similar views. However, the anarchists also had similar views, and this caused Peter Maurin to admire Peter Kropotkin, Maurin himself being a closet anarchist, and this influenced Day herself to become an anarchist, though in a more vocal way. I just want you to know that what anarchism meant to Day (as well as to myself) was a rejection of the centralized state so righteously condemned in 1 Samuel 8, in favor of a decentralized form of governance. We do not reject government or authority in general.
 
Libertarianism and the economic liberalism which accompanies it is not in any sense ‘Catholic’. Libertarianism lacks any conception of the ‘common good’. This spirit of extreme individualism is straight out of the enlightenment and has as its basis a heretical anthropology of human nature.
I doubt we could scare up even one Catholic libertarian or philosophical anarchist (properly understood) would claim this “extreme individualist” strawman you are whipping here. We are, however, quite interested in the Golden Rule and its corollary “Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.” I am less interested in “Don’t tread on me.” as I am interested in “Don’t tread on your neighbor.”

http://freeisbeautiful.net/wp-content/uploads/dont-tread-on-neighbor300.jpg

As to invoking the “Common Good” I always suggest that people actually look at the definition of that term before using it to cheer on the welfare state. It doesn’t say what most think it says:

The Common Good

No government is legitimate on its own authority. Even if government is imposed by a majority it is still illegitimate if it does not promote the common good. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches: “The common good requires peace, that is, the stability and security of a just order. It presupposes that authority should ensure by morally acceptable means the security of society and its members. It is the basis of the right to legitimate personal and collective defense.” (CCC 1909)

The common good is not so broad as some believe. Three elements define it:
  1. Respect for and promotion of the fundamental rights of the person;
  2. Prosperity, or the development of the spiritual and temporal goods of society;
  3. The peace and security of the group and of its members. (CCC 1925)
In defining the role of authority in providing for the common good, the Church touches here on the concept of negative rights as they contrast with positive rights. A “negative” right refers to an individual’s freedom to act or refrain from acting. It means that no one may use force to prevent us from exercising the right. Such rights would include fundamental personal rights such as the ownership of private property, freedom of speech and religion, and a right to personal security, to simply be left alone. Government can not grant such rights. Its job is to recognize and protect these rights and do nothing to impede them.

When other people are forced to provide for our property or security (or money or health care and the like), we enter the realm of positive rights. In contrast to the negative right to be left alone, a positive right is a right to make others act on our behalf. Recall the words of the American Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

The rights, “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” are all negative. Not a one of these can be provided by men. The most we can do is recognize such rights. To pretend that these are positive rights would be as absurd as if the founders had declared a right to happiness itself, rather that its mere pursuit.

This distinction between positive and negative rights can be seen in the definition of the “common good,” above. Note the first element is “respect for, and promotion of, the fundamental rights of the person.” This clearly refers to negative rights.

The third element is similar and calls for: “The peace and security of the group and of its members.” Peace and security are arguably a subset of the first element, amounting to the negative right to not be harmed by others, but that is not important. The thing to notice is that both the first and third elements are for the benefit—not just society in general—but to every individual member of society.

Now contrast the first and third elements with the second element comprising the common good: “Prosperity, or the development of the spiritual and temporal goods of society.” Here is a very different animal. This good is not conferred directly upon individuals. This element of the common good is directed at “the social well-being and development of the group itself,” promoting prosperity in general so that each may have access to “what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on.” (CCC 1908)

The enabling of this good is expressly directed to society in general, a necessary limitation, since no society can allot spiritual goods to individuals (as if handing out food stamps). As to temporal goods, the group has no way to give such goods to individuals unless they first take them from the person who produced them. As different as spiritual and temporal goods are from one another, the Church still classes them together, recognizing that neither involves a positive individual right to prosperity to be provided by the government.

This three-part definition of the common good is congenial to libertarian thought in that individual rights and security are protected when a person is allowed to live life peaceably and without interference. Prosperity, on the other hand, may be promoted only in a general way, enabling the free flow of earthly goods and heavenly grace. Those in authority can do no more, for to allot a particular measure of such goods to every person is either inconceivable or attainable only by physical coercion.

~ excerpt from Free is Beautiful
 
Perhaps the word “libertarian” was too vague. I’m referring mostly to the voluntaryist/anarcho-capitalist ideas that the state does not have more authority than the individual.

I find myself becoming more and more anarchist, and I’m wondering how these ideals hold up with Catholic social teaching. The Church seems to lean towards statism, at least in the vague sense that we need a loosely defined government to ensure fairness and defense. Does this leave any room for complete voluntaryism? Or is a state built on coercion necessary according to Catholic social teaching?
I agree, Paragon 👍👍👍

The source of the government’s authority is “the consent of the governed.” This means that the government is not the ruler, but the servant or agent of the citizens; it means that the government as such has no power except the power delegated to it by the citizens for a specific purpose.

Payment for governmental services—SHOULD be voluntary. Since the proper services of a government—the police, the military, the law courts—are demonstrably needed by individual citizens and affect their interests directly, the citizens would (and should) be willing to pay for such services, as they pay for insurance.
 
Payment for governmental services—SHOULD be voluntary.
Suppose that Bob does not pay for the governmental service. Would he be banned from driving a car or riding a bus on a highway paid for by the government. Also, what would happen with the military if Bob did not pay anything for it. Also, schools would have to all be private, but how would the poor be able to afford the tuition? If a soldier is injured, and there are no government hospitals, how would he be able to afford the astronomical medical costs associated with many injuries suffered in the military?
 
Suppose that Bob does not pay for the governmental service. Would he be banned from driving a car or riding a bus on a highway paid for by the government. Also, what would happen with the military if Bob did not pay anything for it. Also, schools would have to all be private, but how would the poor be able to afford the tuition? If a soldier is injured, and there are no government hospitals, how would he be able to afford the astronomical medical costs associated with many injuries suffered in the military?
Ah, Tomdstone, you ask some very deep and ponderous questions. I prefer to answer questions directly, but I am going to risk answering you with a question.

Suppose Bob was a Catholic. And didn’t care to contribute much during the collection. Would Catholic hospitals refuse him care…even if he couldn’t pay? Would Catholic schools refuse to educate his children because he does not contribute? Suppose Bob lost his job and needed help, would Catholic Charities refuse him?

Of course not.

My point is that the Catholic Church, a world wide benevolent organization, does a great job entirely on voluntary contributions. An efficient, limited, well run government should be able to do the same.
 
Ah, Tomdstone, you ask some very deep and ponderous questions. I prefer to answer questions directly, but I am going to risk answering you with a question.

Suppose Bob was a Catholic. And didn’t care to contribute much during the collection. Would Catholic hospitals refuse him care…even if he couldn’t pay? Would Catholic schools refuse to educate his children because he does not contribute? Suppose Bob lost his job and needed help, would Catholic Charities refuse him?

Of course not.

My point is that the Catholic Church, a world wide benevolent organization, does a great job entirely on voluntary contributions. An efficient, limited, well run government should be able to do the same.
People can contribute now to the government, but the reverse is happening with people trying to find all kinds of tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes. There was even a man running for President of the USA on the Rpublican ticket who admitted that he had set up corporations and offices in the Cayman islands to avoid US taxes. So, the idea that people are going to pay taxes voluntarily and at a rate comparable to what they are now paying is not credible.
 
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