Stephen168
New member
Are you saying Jesus, Jehovah, and God are the same?
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ParkerD
Guest
Stephen,
Yes. Jesus is God the Son, Jehovah, I AM, the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, He who gave Moses the Ten Commandments, the Creator, the Word spoken of by the Apostle John who “was made flesh, and dwelt among us.”
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Stephen168
New member
Are Jehovah and God the Father the same?
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RebeccaJ
Guest
ParkerD, you know nothing about me. As usual, per Mormon protocol, you feel the need to tell me something is/was wrong with me. I’m sorry. But the GOD I know, reaches, never ending to all of us, no matter how we are feeling.
I’d say this is consistent with Mormon belief. The answer you want, is the answer you get. It is not an honest way of finding God, now is it?
ParkerD, I was a teenager. Life’s knock arounds hadn’t occurred just yet. I was a good, nice, very shy girl. Who just wanted the truth. I discovered Mormonism didn’t have it. I quietly left.
The noisy me you see here didn’t arrive for much longer.
I’m sorry ParkerD, but as a spokesperson for God, you aren’t there! I left God alone, didn’t believe in any god for decades. Most especially your false god.
When I did decide to see if I could “find God”, an experiment if you will, He brought me to Him, as I am. A broken sinner.
Save it ParkerD. You are projecting your Mormon feelings about apostates. Which has zero to do with truth.
Which is total Mormon BS! These are the sort of lies I am talking about.
ParkerD, save your analysis of me for when you are sitting around pondering the dust in your belly button. That is about what it’s worth.
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LDSGuy
Guest
Jesus=Jehovah. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate, distinct personages that together make up the Godhead.
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ParkerD
Guest
No.
Stephen168
New member
Was Jehovah created by God the Father into his (Jehovah’s) pre-mortal existence?
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ParkerD
Guest
Stephen,
Abraham received revelation that:
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. (Abraham 3)
Joseph Smith also received revelation that:
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. (D & C 93)
So, the answer to your question is “no.”
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amontoya
Guest
“God is the Father of our spirits. We are literally His children, and He loves us. We lived as spirit children of our Father in Heaven before we were born on this earth. We were not, however, like our Heavenly Father, nor could we ever become like Him and enjoy all the blessings that He enjoys without the experience of living in mortality with a physical body.” Preach My Gospel Chapter 3 Lesson 2
Did Jesus have a physical body before being born on this earth? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father” if He had not yet experienced “living in mortality?” Has the Holy Spirit ever lived in mortality with a physical body? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father?”
“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
If man was “in the beginning with God,” how could we be His children? If intelligence can’t be made or created, how can we be “literally His children” if we have always existed “with God?”
Did Jesus have a physical body before being born on this earth? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father” if He had not yet experienced “living in mortality?” Has the Holy Spirit ever lived in mortality with a physical body? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father?”
“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
If man was “in the beginning with God,” how could we be His children? If intelligence can’t be made or created, how can we be “literally His children” if we have always existed “with God?”
In the fourth chapter of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus reads a quote from Isaiah 61 that describes the annointing and sending of the Messiah by the LORD(or Jehovah) and says “today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” It seems that in LDS teaching, if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament(or Jehovah) then He is stating that He annointed and sent Himself.
Stephen168
New member
This was my next question also
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ParkerD
Guest
Amontoya,“God is the Father of our spirits. We are literally His children, and He loves us. We lived as spirit children of our Father in Heaven before we were born on this earth. We were not, however, like our Heavenly Father, nor could we ever become like Him and enjoy all the blessings that He enjoys without the experience of living in mortality with a physical body.” Preach My Gospel Chapter 3 Lesson 2
Did Jesus have a physical body before being born on this earth? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father” if He had not yet experienced “living in mortality?” Has the Holy Spirit ever lived in mortality with a physical body? If not, how could He be God “like our Heavenly Father?”
“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
If man was “in the beginning with God,” how could we be His children? If intelligence can’t be made or created, how can we be “literally His children” if we have always existed “with God?”
In the fourth chapter of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus reads a quote from Isaiah 61 that describes the annointing and sending of the Messiah by the LORD(or Jehovah) and says “today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” It seems that in LDS teaching, if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament(or Jehovah) then He is stating that He annointed and sent Himself.
Jesus’ spirit was in the express image of Heavenly Father’s personage in pre-mortal life, but He did not yet have a physical body. He was a spirit, the pre-eminent spirit among all of those “intelligences” who became Heavenly Father’s spirit children because He brought them forth, or “organized” them.
Abraham received revelation that:
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me.
The Son of Man was the Anointed One, chosen by the Father for the mission that the Savior understood He had come to fulfill. He quoted Isaiah because He knew what His mission was.
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amontoya
Guest
So then, we’re not “literally His children?” We’re eternal spirits who were just hanging out in the pre-mortal existence until Heavenly Father “organized” us? And Jesus was pre-eminent because his spirit looks like Heavenly Father’s physical body?
So, if Heavenly Father was the one who chose and sent Jesus to be the Messiah, why would Jesus say that He(Jesus/Jehovah) sent Himself(Jesus/Jehovah). Isaiah 61 is the Messiah speaking, saying that the Spirit of the LORD(Jehovah) is upon Him, the LORD(Jehovah) annointed Him, the LORD(Jehovah) sent Him, and that He delights in the LORD(Jehovah) His God. If, in LDS theology, Jesus is Jehovah, then Jesus is saying that His own Spirit is upon Him, He annointed Himself, He sent Himself, and He delights in Himself, His God. That doesn’t make sense.
However, if God the Father is the LORD, then it makes perfect sense.
Stephen168
New member
Which standard work is this from?
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LDSGuy
Guest
The Book of Abraham
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ParkerD
Guest
Amontoya,
You have raised good questions. I think the best way to answer is with the following long post from an article on lds.org:
A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
From Improvement Era, Aug. 1916, 934–42;
In the early 1900s, some discussion arose among Church members about the roles of God the Father and Jesus Christ. The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued the following in 1916 to clarify the meaning of certain scriptures where Jesus Christ, or Jehovah, is designated as the Father.
The scriptures plainly and repeatedly affirm that God is the Creator of the earth and the heavens and all things that in them are. In the sense so expressed, the Creator is an Organizer. God created the earth as an organized sphere; but He certainly did not create, in the sense of bringing into primal existence, the ultimate elements of the materials of which the earth consists, for “the elements are eternal” (D&C 93:33).
So also life is eternal, and not created; but life, or the vital force, may be infused into organized matter, though the details of the process have not been revealed unto man. (For illustrative instances see Gen. 2:7; Moses 3:7; Abr. 5:7.) Each of these scriptures states that God breathed into the body of man the breath of life. See further Moses 3:19 for the statement that God breathed the breath of life into the bodies of the beasts and birds. God showed unto Abraham “the intelligences that were organized before the world was”; and by “intelligences” we are to understand personal “spirits” (see Abr. 3:22–23); nevertheless, we are expressly told that “Intelligence,” that is, “the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be” (D&C 93:29).
The term “Father” as applied to Deity occurs in sacred writ with plainly different meanings. Each of the four significations specified in the following treatment should be carefully segregated.
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(item 3 skipped–Jesus is the “Father” of those who abide is gospel, because He becomes the “father” of our spiritual rebirth when we are born again.)
The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Salt Lake City, Utah, 30 June 1916
You have raised good questions. I think the best way to answer is with the following long post from an article on lds.org:
A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
From Improvement Era, Aug. 1916, 934–42;
In the early 1900s, some discussion arose among Church members about the roles of God the Father and Jesus Christ. The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued the following in 1916 to clarify the meaning of certain scriptures where Jesus Christ, or Jehovah, is designated as the Father.
The scriptures plainly and repeatedly affirm that God is the Creator of the earth and the heavens and all things that in them are. In the sense so expressed, the Creator is an Organizer. God created the earth as an organized sphere; but He certainly did not create, in the sense of bringing into primal existence, the ultimate elements of the materials of which the earth consists, for “the elements are eternal” (D&C 93:33).
So also life is eternal, and not created; but life, or the vital force, may be infused into organized matter, though the details of the process have not been revealed unto man. (For illustrative instances see Gen. 2:7; Moses 3:7; Abr. 5:7.) Each of these scriptures states that God breathed into the body of man the breath of life. See further Moses 3:19 for the statement that God breathed the breath of life into the bodies of the beasts and birds. God showed unto Abraham “the intelligences that were organized before the world was”; and by “intelligences” we are to understand personal “spirits” (see Abr. 3:22–23); nevertheless, we are expressly told that “Intelligence,” that is, “the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be” (D&C 93:29).
The term “Father” as applied to Deity occurs in sacred writ with plainly different meanings. Each of the four significations specified in the following treatment should be carefully segregated.
- “Father” as Literal Parent
Scriptures embodying the ordinary signification—literally that of Parent—are too numerous and specific to require citation. The purport of these scriptures is to the effect that God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title “Elohim,” is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of the spirits of the human race. Elohim is the Father in every sense in which Jesus Christ is so designated, and distinctively He is the Father of spirits. Thus we read in the Epistle to the Hebrews: “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb. 12:9). In view of this fact we are taught by Jesus Christ to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name” (Matt. 6:9).
- “Father” as Creator
A second scriptural meaning of “Father” is that of Creator; e.g., in passages referring to any one of the Godhead as “the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are” (Ether 4:7; see also Alma 11:38–39; Mosiah 15:4).
…
(item 3 skipped–Jesus is the “Father” of those who abide is gospel, because He becomes the “father” of our spiritual rebirth when we are born again.)
- Jesus Christ the “Father” by Divine Investiture of Authority
A fourth reason for applying the title “Father” to Jesus Christ is found in the fact that in all His dealings with the human family Jesus the Son has represented and yet represents Elohim His Father in power and authority. This is true of Christ in His preexistent, antemortal, or unembodied state, in the which He was known as Jehovah; also during His embodiment in the flesh; and during His labors as a disembodied spirit in the realm of the dead; and since that period in His resurrected state. To the Jews He said, “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30; see also John 17:11, 22); yet He declared, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and further, “I am come in my Father’s name” (John 5:43; see also John 10:25). The same truth was declared by Christ Himself to the Nephites (see 3 Ne. 20:35; 3 Ne. 28:10), and has been reaffirmed by revelation in the present dispensation (D&C 50:43). Thus the Father placed His name upon the Son; and Jesus Christ spoke and ministered in and through the Father’s name; and so far as power, authority, and godship are concerned His words and acts were and are those of the Father.
The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Salt Lake City, Utah, 30 June 1916
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Are you going to stop proselyting and answer the question?
There is one paragraph in there that references the BIBLE. That paragraph doesn’t answer what was asked.
There is one paragraph in there that references the BIBLE. That paragraph doesn’t answer what was asked.
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ParkerD
Guest
Amontoya,
If I were to answer your last question in my own words, I would say that one who reads Isaiah 61 should also read Isaiah 53 and Isaiah 11. When I read those chapters and compare with Luke 4:17-24, then in my mind the words “he hath anointed me” means “He (God the Father) hath anointed Me” (the person speaking in the Jewish synagogue standing in front of them).
From Isaiah 53, “the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
From Isaiah 11,
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
If I were to answer your last question in my own words, I would say that one who reads Isaiah 61 should also read Isaiah 53 and Isaiah 11. When I read those chapters and compare with Luke 4:17-24, then in my mind the words “he hath anointed me” means “He (God the Father) hath anointed Me” (the person speaking in the Jewish synagogue standing in front of them).
From Isaiah 53, “the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
From Isaiah 11,
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Stephen168
New member
I would think these questions could be answers with a Yes or a No.
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LDSGuy
Guest
And I would think the answer to “Is there one God” would be a simple yes or no. Unfortunately, the mystery of Truth is not always simple or even fully understood.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Yes.
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