A question for Non-denominationals

[CWBetts]

Sola Fide, I had to look it up in order to understand what it meant.

Justification by faith.

My thoughts: One can have faith in anything, yet having faith in something that was/is said, and yet not having seen, is blind faith not seen with the naked eye, save the spiritual eye.

Sola Scriptura The word (bible) as standing alone.

The bible, written by various writers, as inspired to do so by God, can only be interwoven together by God’s Spirit to bring about a message to all mankind about the wonderful works of God in behalf of all mankind.

Combine the knowledge of the works of God in faith, and we will see the justification granted us by God.

As you say, those words are not found in the bible, yet they are implied.

Ref: Deu 1:25 And they took of the fruit of the land in their hands, and brought it down unto us, and brought us word again, and said, It is a good land which the LORD our God doth give us.

Take for instance the above verse; we see a picture of Gods works using other words to paint a picture.

Not exact words, but other words with similar words to mean the same thing in a picture.

The fruit of the land, Ten Commandments, brought down by Moses, and then again, brought us “word” (Jesus) and said: “it is good for the land which the Lord God has given us.

Now, what argument can you make against what is implied as God’s works, in a picture painted throughout the bible, many times over of the same picture, that being the works of God in giving us Jesus as our redeemer?

I shall not want, if the justification of my soul by faith in the word of God leads me to salvation.

Need I anything else? Would I now not have what is needed to gain salvation based on what the word of God (Bible) tells me about God’s gift to me?

I am made free in the liberty of Christ!

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Because I have knowledge of the tree of Life, I have reached out to eat of the fruit of that tree, that has been freely offered to me to take, and found justification for my soul in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

Tris is a typical case of taking the Scriptures out of context to support heresy. Arius did it, Appolonaris did it, Nestorius did it, the list goes on and on. Sola Fide, or justification by faith alone is in direct conflict with the Scriptures. In fact, the only place in the Scriptures “faith alone” are found together is to tell us that we are NOT saved by faith alone. Or do you simply ignore the Epistle of James? As far as Sola Scriptura, it is not even implied. Even if it were, the authority of the Church is explicit in multiple places (Matthew 16, Matthew 18, 1 Timothy 3) Jesus Himself corrected the Pharisees and Sadducees when they used Scripture alone.

 

[look3467]

Tris is a typical case of taking the Scriptures out of context to support heresy.>>>CWBetts

If, you were able to see how I see, you would see the same picture.

We all look at the picture differently. One may look at a detail within the picture and make a statement about that detail as being gospel, yet while others may see a different detail in the same picture and do the same.

But the one that can see the works of God in the whole picture as a whole picture in stead of fragments of, will see the story repeated many times over in human characters, and events.

Case in point: The first shall be last and the last shall be first is repeaded many times over.

Cain was first, then Abel, with Abel out, Seth becomes first.
Issac was second, and Ishmael first, yet Issac became first and Ishmael second.
Issac was to be first offered , yet Issac became second, in its place the ram.
Barabbas was first offered to the people, but Jesus was the second offer taken.

Those were just a few of many repeated instances within the whole picture depicting the works of God in the salvation of mankind.

Supporting scriptures:

Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

I have multiplied visions,

Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

used similitudes

Gen 27:36 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me? Case: first becoming last?the ministry of the prophets

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This picture is repeated many times over in the charactors of human history.A types of Jesus, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Joseph, Issac, Jacob and Jesus.

Arius did it, Appolonaris did it, Nestorius did it,

Suppose they saw what can not be seen, thus labeled as such?

Sola Fide, or justification by faith alone is in direct conflict with the Scriptures

If after reading and studying the whole bible with prayer and supplication, one can not see the gift of God, then one remains under bondage to the law.

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The grace of God is what justifies, not our righteous works by the law.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, **that we might be justified by faith. **

We don’t justify ourselves, God does it.

Blessings, AJ

 

[CWBetts]

If, you were able to see how I see, you would see the same picture.

We all look at the picture differently. One may look at a detail within the picture and make a statement about that detail as being gospel, yet while others may see a different detail in the same picture and do the same.

But the one that can see the works of God in the whole picture as a whole picture in stead of fragments of, will see the story repeated many times over in human characters, and events.

Case in point: The first shall be last and the last shall be first is repeaded many times over.

Cain was first, then Abel, with Abel out, Seth becomes first.
Issac was second, and Ishmael first, yet Issac became first and Ishmael second.
Issac was to be first offered , yet Issac became second, in its place the ram.
Barabbas was first offered to the people, but Jesus was the second offer taken.

Those were just a few of many repeated instances within the whole picture depicting the works of God in the salvation of mankind.

Supporting scriptures:

Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

I have multiplied visions,

Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

used similitudes

Gen 27:36 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me? Case: first becoming last?the ministry of the prophets

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This picture is repeated many times over in the charactors of human history.A types of Jesus, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Joseph, Issac, Jacob and Jesus.

Suppose they saw what can not be seen, thus labeled as such?

If after reading and studying the whole bible with prayer and supplication, one can not see the gift of God, then one remains under bondage to the law.

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The grace of God is what justifies, not our righteous works by the law.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, **that we might be justified by faith. **

We don’t justify ourselves, God does it.

Blessings, AJ

I never said we are justify ourselves. We are justified by God’ grace. However our faith, by itself, is of no use. We can only have faith by the grace of God. But faith alone is not what has been communicated to us. It was in invention of 16th century heretics. “DO I need to tell you, you foolish person, that faith without works is dead?”

 

[look3467]

“DO I need to tell you, you foolish person, that faith without works is dead?”

“Do I” as in in full authority? Are you as the Scribes and the Pharisees?

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

I need to tell you nothing, save the Holy spirit reveal it unto you.

Blessings, AJ

 

[CWBetts]

“Do I” as in in full authority? Are you as the Scribes and the Pharisees?

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

I need to tell you nothing, save the Holy spirit reveal it unto you.

Blessings, AJ

Just quoting the Scriptures, my friend. The Christian faith has responsibilities. The idea that you can just sit on your faith comes straight form the devil.

 

[look3467]

Just quoting the Scriptures, my friend. The Christian faith has responsibilities. The idea that you can just sit on your faith comes straight form the devil.

What comes first, works or faith? Works of faith is faith in the work.

No faith, no works!

My faith is not justified by my works, but by the works of Christ is my faith justified.

What ever works I do, whether good or evil, are accountable to me only while yet in the flesh, for the wages of sin is death.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through **Jesus Christ our Lord. **

What has wages to do with the gift? Are they not diametrically opposed to each other?

If they are, then by whose works do you propose to use in order to gain entrance into heaven?

Answer that correctly, then I will see your faith by the works of Christ!

Blessings, AJ

 

[CWBetts]

What comes first, works or faith? Works of faith is faith in the work.

No faith, no works!

My faith is not justified by my works, but by the works of Christ is my faith justified.

What ever works I do, whether good or evil, are accountable to me only while yet in the flesh, for the wages of sin is death.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through **Jesus Christ our Lord. **

What has wages to do with the gift? Are they not diametrically opposed to each other?

If they are, then by whose works do you propose to use in order to gain entrance into heaven?

Answer that correctly, then I will see your faith by the works of Christ!

Blessings, AJ

I trust in the works of God. At the same time, I understand that my obedience to true doctrine is necessary for salvation, as well as at the very least, receiving the sacrament of baptism, as through Baptism we are cleansed from sin and are given the grace to grow in the faith.

 

[Saul_DelTarso]

1believer, I’m not convinced that you are at all given to understanding the Catholic faith, as much as to show it to be wrong, or irrelevant, or at best no different or more faithful than any other of the myriad reformist or protestant or non-distinguishable denominations that are NOT the Catholic Church. Trouble is, you’re missing valuable insights into the church and you won’t learn anything abou them by continuing to assume that you’re version is correct, just because it feels so positive and you feel so certain of it. You would have to admit that you have anything to learn to make any of this effort of yours to be valuable to yourself, or to anyone else. It’s because of that that I’ve found your responses, or more accurately non-responses to direct questions to be all too frequent, full of tortured logic(?), and too predictable. Nevertheless, I’ll answer this mess rather than let the question go unanswered. I’m a converting Catholic, ex not-Catholic.

1. I’d like to not have to go through RCIA because I am impatient, but I have spent two years in personal inquiry, and after understanding the failings and shortcomings of anything else, I now fully and completely accept the dogma of the Catholic Church, and I am anxious to partake in the eucharist sooner rather than later. In spite of that, I will as an act of obedience to the Church, attend RCIA if necessary.
2. I have been a Protestant, or “non-denominational” Christian for many, many years, and understand completely why I would, why I did, and why I do follow Christ’s leading me to His Church. By grace, I choose the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and always will.
3. I go to mass weekly or more often, adoration, divine mercy chaplet, night prayers, I pray the rosary every morning, and at night with my wife and daughter. I do NONE of these things because I HAVE to, nor because the Church expects me to, nor in order to fulfill some mistaken idea that I must perform works for salvation. I do them because more than anything else in the world, I want to be in worship as much as possible. I can think of no greater privilege, and of no better place for me than the Catholic Church, where Christ put me.
4. As for you taking swipes at the Catholic Church, you give yourself far too much credit. I would suggest that you become more conversant before undertaking to argue the content and validity of the Church. What you actually do is bring up a lot of canned responses and talking points that come solely from a non-Catholic point of view, and do little more than illustrate the gaps in your comprehension of it. I think if you actually had an interest, you would make a better effort.

Am I to understand…blah blah blah, more of the same insufferable inanity as has already revealed more than enough…

 

[1beleevr]

1believer, I’m not convinced that you are at all given to understanding the Catholic faith, as much as to show it to be wrong, or irrelevant, or at best no different or more faithful than any other of the myriad reformist or protestant or non-distinguishable denominations that are NOT the Catholic Church. Trouble is, you’re missing valuable insights into the church and you won’t learn anything abou them by continuing to assume that you’re version is correct, just because it feels so positive and you feel so certain of it. You would have to admit that you have anything to learn to make any of this effort of yours to be valuable to yourself, or to anyone else. It’s because of that that I’ve found your responses, or more accurately non-responses to direct questions to be all too frequent, full of tortured logic(?), and too predictable. Nevertheless, I’ll answer this mess rather than let the question go unanswered. I’m a converting Catholic, ex not-Catholic.

1. I’d like to not have to go through RCIA because I am impatient, but I have spent two years in personal inquiry, and after understanding the failings and shortcomings of anything else, I now fully and completely accept the dogma of the Catholic Church, and I am anxious to partake in the eucharist sooner rather than later. In spite of that, I will as an act of obedience to the Church, attend RCIA if necessary.
2. I have been a Protestant, or “non-denominational” Christian for many, many years, and understand completely why I would, why I did, and why I do follow Christ’s leading me to His Church. By grace, I choose the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and always will.
3. I go to mass weekly or more often, adoration, divine mercy chaplet, night prayers, I pray the rosary every morning, and at night with my wife and daughter. I do NONE of these things because I HAVE to, nor because the Church expects me to, nor in order to fulfill some mistaken idea that I must perform works for salvation. I do them because more than anything else in the world, I want to be in worship as much as possible. I can think of no greater privilege, and of no better place for me than the Catholic Church, where Christ put me.
4. As for you taking swipes at the Catholic Church, you give yourself far too much credit. I would suggest that you become more conversant before undertaking to argue the content and validity of the Church. What you actually do is bring up a lot of canned responses and talking points that come solely from a non-Catholic point of view, and do little more than illustrate the gaps in your comprehension of it. I think if you actually had an interest, you would make a better effort.

I am praying for you to have success and peace during your conversion! And for God to grant you peace and serenity, along with patience to go through RICA! I have been walking with the Lord for 43 years, and He has been grooming me(Phil 1:6), for the role that He has designed for me. Obviously it’s not to be a catholic, or I would have been one by now! People in every denomination can come across as arrogant and elitist, and I sometimes have experienced that; even on this forum! I wish that we could love everyone(second greatest Commandment) like God does, but because of our humanity, it is difficult to do so! Unity in Christ’s church would be awesome. But as long as there are dividers on both sides, this is a pipe dream! Bottom line is, you are a catholic, and love and defend your religion! I am a nondenominational Christian, and defend the Cross of Christ!

 

[1beleevr]

I never said that one CANNOT be saved unless they are Catholic, but it is the surest path to salvation, as it is the Church built upon Peter. It is the Church that has existed since Pentecost. Jesus did not found many Churches, he founded one Church, and He prayed that we should all be united in Him.

We weren’t necessarilytalking about being saved, as much as whether one can ee Heaven(The Kingdom of God) if one is not a catholic! You mut be careful when you assert that the catholic church is the Kingdom of God! Some might believe that if they don’t convert, they cannot see Heaven!

 

[CWBetts]

We weren’t necessarilytalking about being saved, as much as whether one can ee Heaven(The Kingdom of God) if one is not a catholic! You mut be careful when you assert that the catholic church is the Kingdom of God! Some might believe that if they don’t convert, they cannot see Heaven!

Listen, its the way it is. The Kingdom of God is the Church. Heaen as the Kingdom of God makes no sense in light of the evidence presented. MAybe you can explain how impefection is going to be in heaven.

 

[1beleevr]

1believer, I’m not convinced that you are at all given to understanding the Catholic faith, as much as to show it to be wrong, or irrelevant, or at best no different or more faithful than any other of the myriad reformist or protestant or non-distinguishable denominations that are NOT the Catholic Church. Trouble is, you’re missing valuable insights into the church and you won’t learn anything abou them by continuing to assume that you’re version is correct, just because it feels so positive and you feel so certain of it. You would have to admit that you have anything to learn to make any of this effort of yours to be valuable to yourself, or to anyone else. It’s because of that that I’ve found your responses, or more accurately non-responses to direct questions to be all too frequent, full of tortured logic(?), and too predictable. Nevertheless, I’ll answer this mess rather than let the question go unanswered. I’m a converting Catholic, ex not-Catholic.

1. I’d like to not have to go through RCIA because I am impatient, but I have spent two years in personal inquiry, and after understanding the failings and shortcomings of anything else, I now fully and completely accept the dogma of the Catholic Church, and I am anxious to partake in the eucharist sooner rather than later. In spite of that, I will as an act of obedience to the Church, attend RCIA if necessary.
2. I have been a Protestant, or “non-denominational” Christian for many, many years, and understand completely why I would, why I did, and why I do follow Christ’s leading me to His Church. By grace, I choose the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and always will.
3. I go to mass weekly or more often, adoration, divine mercy chaplet, night prayers, I pray the rosary every morning, and at night with my wife and daughter. I do NONE of these things because I HAVE to, nor because the Church expects me to, nor in order to fulfill some mistaken idea that I must perform works for salvation. I do them because more than anything else in the world, I want to be in worship as much as possible. I can think of no greater privilege, and of no better place for me than the Catholic Church, where Christ put me.
4. As for you taking swipes at the Catholic Church, you give yourself far too much credit. I would suggest that you become more conversant before undertaking to argue the content and validity of the Church. What you actually do is bring up a lot of canned responses and talking points that come solely from a non-Catholic point of view, and do little more than illustrate the gaps in your comprehension of it. I think if you actually had an interest, you would make a better effort.

God bless you, my brother in Christ! It sounds like you are doing well so far, attending mass, and following the necessary steps required to be a catholic! I totally respect you, and your choices; and probably will never truly understand the catholic church and it’s doctrines, but I love every Christian brother and sister, regardless of affiliation! I know that I couldn’t be in a religion where the leader was referred to as holy father though!

 

[CWBetts]

God bless you, my brother in Christ! It sounds like you are doing well so far, attending mass, and following the necessary steps required to be a catholic! I totally respect you, and your choices; and probably will never truly understand the catholic church and it’s doctrines, but I love every Christian brother and sister, regardless of affiliation! I know that I couldn’t be in a religion where the leader was referred to as holy father though!

Sounds like a pride issue to me.

 

[look3467]

I trust in the works of God. At the same time, I understand that my obedience to true doctrine is necessary for salvation, as well as at the very least, receiving the sacrament of baptism, as through Baptism we are cleansed from sin and are given the grace to grow in the faith. >>>_CWBetts

What are the works of God in ordering your salvation?

Do you suppose that obedience can gain you salvation?

Can you explain this verse: Rom 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Would you say this part applies to you/us, “many were made sinners,”?

and would you say this second part doesn’t, “many be made righteous”?

What would you say the key words here are? Obedience by one?

Your right! Christs obedience won your/our salvation, can you actually believe that in faith?

And to booth, gave it to us as a free gift!

No requirement necessary but to accept the free gift when prompt!

Listen, Catholic, protestant, does not matter, for the free gift is God’s work given as a free gift.

God knew that under the conditions that He placed mankind in, and the strictness of the law, that no human being could achieve, or try to achieve a level of obedience enough to win it’s own salvation save God alone.

That is why Jesus was born of a women,(“son of man, as well as Son of God”)placing Himself in the same level as all mankind so that in Him, all mankind might be saved, save He held out obediance till the end.

Why suppose the temptation? Why suppose the endurance of the cross? Why suppose He offered Himself willingly?

Do you think that by any righteousness of man (not Gods) man could redeem self?

If you are a Catholic, be a good one, if a Protestant, be a good one, but don’t divide the body of Christ because one or the other believes his or her’s beliefs are the only truth.

The heart is where God is, not in any one religion.

Have any of you had a circumcision of the heart yet?

Phi 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

“Of the heart” meaning the peeling away of the doctrines of man and exposing the true Christ, the Son of God, the head of the church spiritual, giving birth to a new creature (s), a new generation of believers.

It can be said that life begins at the cross, because prior to, there was but condemnation and death…

So, whatever belief system you choose to abide in, do a good job in it, only if it invites you to worship God in spirit, and to love your neighbor as thy self.

God knows all the intricate details of mankind’s short comings, and rightly so, did a work to save mankind from that which He Himself placed us in, via His Son Jesus.

Note: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Are you a new creature in Christ? Has your old dead self have a rebirth yet?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If you are born into the family of God, by the word of God (Jesus) your soul liveth and abideth for ever.

Can that not be any clearer? How complicated is that?

Notice that it requires nothing but the circumcision of the heart and noting else?

Why make things so complicated?

Enjoy worshiping God in whatever choice you choose, for we can only worship God in spirit only, and reflection of that transfers into the actions in the flesh.

Now you can apply James’ formula! But not before!

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

God bless you, my brother in Christ! It sounds like you are doing well so far, attending mass, and following the necessary steps required to be a catholic! I totally respect you, and your choices; and probably will never truly understand the catholic church and it’s doctrines, but I love every Christian brother and sister, regardless of affiliation! I know that I couldn’t be in a religion where the leader was referred to as holy father though!

I have to give you brother a light admonishment, since you are my brother in Christ.

You give praise to the choice’s 1beleevr takes, yet in the same sentence you make an objection, as though discrediting those choices made by 1beleevr.

If, you say it doesn’t matter by “I love every Christian brother and sister, regardless of affiliation!” could you not have raised an objection?

I trust you understand what I mean?

Blessings, AJ

 

[CWBetts]

the complete refutation of faith alone, which is nothing less that the perversion of the criptures is not possible here, i will provide you with a link to one of my blogs, where ai deal with the issue coompletely:

debunking-the-myths.blogspot.com/2010/06/salvation-by-works.html
debunking-the-myths.blogspot.com/2010/06/sacraments-earning-salvation.html
debunking-the-myths.blogspot.com/2010/07/yes-virginia-there-is-purgatory.html

This should clear up your interpretive errors.

 

[Saul_DelTarso]

Why make things so complicated?

You say they are complicated. Not only is it not complicated, save that one is expected to know and understand precisely what they believe in, it is a pure joy. Non-Catholics have always thought of it all as too complicated, too onerous, too something not to their liking. That attitude of non-compliance, division, and separateness is a continuation of the spirit of rebellion and disobedience that began protestantism, and that has existed in the 38,000+ variant Christian sects over the last 500+ years, regardless of their claims, even though most neo-protestants don’t seem to recognize the basis or the significance of their individualized doctrines and separated dogmas.

Catholics, rather than seeking to divide, are desirous of the return to faith for the sake of all the others. Through their understanding of the sacraments of the church, sharing the truth of the Church in the face of lies and misapprehensions, and through the Deposit of Faith, Scriptures and Traditions that have been carried faithfully though 2000 years, it is hoped to call back home those who are in rebellion, and unite the faith under His church. The all too human unwillingness to serve Christ’s church has prevented, and it has, unbeknown to them, cost them their participation in much of what God offers, nothing more and nothing less. It is much easier to understand what is missing when one has it, than not having it, and wishing to deny it is there to be had.

In what Catholics see as not only beautiful, but as being fully obedient and fully faithful to Christ in every aspect, protestants see a scourge, a difficulty, a troublesome set of rules, a demand (incorrectly) that one works for one’s salvation, seeing it all as the sting of a cruel master’s whip, perhaps. Who can blame them for ducking the blows? Yet, perhaps it is not so much the sting of the whip they rebel against and avoid, but He who truly wields the “whip” of obedience, and who is at the same time, the source of all Mercy and Grace.

 

[Sophiethenerd]

What church do you attend? Is it affiliated in some way with a larger group?

I go to a small anglican church. I don’t know of any non- denominational Churches in my area, and the rest of my family goes there, so I’m sticking with it.
Mainly, I do Bible study on my own though. =)

 

[look3467]

You say they are complicated. Not only is it not complicated, save that one is expected to know and understand precisely what they believe in, it is a pure joy. Non-Catholics have always thought of it all as too complicated, too onerous, too something not to their liking. That attitude of non-compliance, division, and separateness is a continuation of the spirit of rebellion and disobedience that began protestantism, and that has existed in the 38,000+ variant Christian sects over the last 500+ years, regardless of their claims, even though most neo-protestants don’t seem to recognize the basis or the significance of their individualized doctrines and separated dogmas.

Catholics, rather than seeking to divide, are desirous of the return to faith for the sake of all the others. Through their understanding of the sacraments of the church, sharing the truth of the Church in the face of lies and misapprehensions, and through the Deposit of Faith, Scriptures and Traditions that have been carried faithfully though 2000 years, it is hoped to call back home those who are in rebellion, and unite the faith under His church. The all too human unwillingness to serve Christ’s church has prevented, and it has, unbeknown to them, cost them their participation in much of what God offers, nothing more and nothing less. It is much easier to understand what is missing when one has it, than not having it, and wishing to deny it is there to be had.

In what Catholics see as not only beautiful, but as being fully obedient and fully faithful to Christ in every aspect, protestants see a scourge, a difficulty, a troublesome set of rules, a demand (incorrectly) that one works for one’s salvation, seeing it all as the sting of a cruel master’s whip, perhaps. Who can blame them for ducking the blows? Yet, perhaps it is not so much the sting of the whip they rebel against and avoid, but He who truly wields the “whip” of obedience, and who is at the same time, the source of all Mercy and Grace.

Well, that was a mouth full!

Have you read of my saying anything derogatory against the Catholic Church or its beliefs?

My understanding is inclusive of all beliefs and judge only when those beliefs harm in any way shape or form another human being in the name of religion.

So, if being a Catholic is your form of worshiping God, by all means, don’t let me stop you by what I say, but live just and right as you worship God in spirit.

In fact, I encourage anyone to exercise love for God and neighbor regardless of what church affiliation one espouses.

I love Catholics, as well as all Protestants, Muslims, agnostics, Atheists and the sort.

You see, Jesus did not die for the righteous, but for the unrighteous.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Bengoshi]

I think calling the Reformation can be more accurately called the “deformation.” All Luther, Calvin, ad the other heretics accomplished was to cause division among Christians by deforming the true faith into some man-made monstrosity. If you have nothing to add to the conversation then begone! I would like to see some kind of reasoned defense of the heresies of Luther, Calvin, and their ilk.

Wow, you sure are angry! Burn them Protestants at the stake!