A question for OSASers

[NotWorthy]

I"ve read it many times. Notice, each parable is about one doing whatever it takes to find what is lost which was origianlly in their position.​

The parables more about the ‘finder’ than the lost. Maybe it tells us the Father won’t let us get totally lost if we are His?

But the joy in heaven is because the lost soul has returned, isn’t it?

*I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
*

 

[elvisman]

Int the many posts you’ve read of mine, which ones lead you to believe I believe OSASed?

Gee - if I could remember every single thing you’ve written in the past year - I would REALLY need to get a life.
**Like I said before - if you don’t believe in OSAS - my mistake.

Ummm . . . for the third time - please answer my question:
Do you believe in OSAS?

 

[Cursilista]

thats it, i quit. the catholic church is too hard to follow. Having to walk the talk all the time. Im subscribing to the OSAS idea. I know im saved cause ive excepted jesus as my lord and savior.

Now, lets go have some fun. I can go do all those unmentionables and not loose my salvation. Oh, and i get the same salvation that everyone else gets. Sounds like a good deal to me. Why didnt i think of this before i got too old to really go out there and have some fun.

 

[brb3]

What does a person do to loose their salvation?

Stop being obedient to the word, failure to abide in Christ, disrespecting the H.S. … who is from the Father & the Son. The definition of losing perseverence.

Faith w/o perseverence is described in scripture as one ‘losing’ salvation by Paul & James. If we continue in this state til our last day w/o repentance … we have forfeited our salvation.

 

[Dokimas]

Oh, okay - then you wouldn’t mind answering the question I asked before:
Do you believe in OSAS or did you come to this thread to argue *against *it?

Not so fast: I will NOT answer your question until you either show me where you got your accusation that I said or implied I believe in OSAS or you apologize. You can’t be a know-it-all and not put your money where you mouth is!!! I’m tired of your attitude and your ‘I’m better than you’ way you communicate to others. **Put up **or shut up!

 

[Dokimas]

thats it, i quit. the catholic church is too hard to follow. Having to walk the talk all the time. Im subscribing to the OSAS idea. I know im saved cause ive excepted jesus as my lord and savior.

Now, lets go have some fun. I can go do all those unmentionables and not loose my salvation. Oh, and i get the same salvation that everyone else gets. Sounds like a good deal to me. Why didnt i think of this before i got too old to really go out there and have some fun.

You obviously don’t understand the discipline of the loving God we serve. Hebrews 12 tells us that if we are God’s child and if we wander into sin, God disciplines us. If we aren’t disciplined, we aren’t His because He only disciplines those He loves.

Heb 12:

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.
11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.​

 

[Dokimas]

But the joy in heaven is because the lost soul has returned, isn’t it?

I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

When you go to confession do you repent? If so, does that mean you had lost your salvation and gained it again after confession?

 

[NotWorthy]

When you go to confession do you repent? If so, does that mean you had lost your salvation and gained it again after confession?

Yes and no. If the only sins I"ve committed are venial, then I may still be in a state of salvation. Confession lifts these sins from my soul.

But if I’ve committed a mortal sin, then I have lost my salvation, for I’ve chose sin over God. Confession lifts this mortal sin from my soul and I am back in a state of holiness.

 

[elvisman]

Not so fast: I will NOT answer your question until you either show me where you got your accusation that I said or implied I believe in OSAS or you apologize. You can’t be a know-it-all and not put your money where you mouth is!!! I’m tired of your attitude and your ‘I’m better than you’ way you communicate to others. **Put up **or shut up!

First of all - calm down and stop with the anger or you will be reported to the mods.

**Okay - if you *were *against OSAS - you wouldn’t be playing devils advocate and you wouldn’t questioning others’ belief that it is unbiblical. That is why I assumed you were an OSAS adherent. **
And, as I’ve told you twice already - if you are not - my mistake.

Now - how about answering my question?
Do you believe in OSAS or not?

PS - Although I eagerly await your response - I believe you will again refuse to answer . . .

 

[Dokimas]

First of all - calm down and stop with the anger or you will be reported to the mods.

**Okay - if you *were ***against OSAS - you wouldn’t be playing devils advocate and you wouldn’t questioning others’ belief that it is unbiblical. That is why I assumed you were an OSAS adherent.
And, as I’ve told you twice already - if you are not - my mistake.

Now - how about answering my question?
Do you believe in OSAS or not?

PS - Although I eagerly await your response - I believe you will again refuse to answer . . .

Putting you in your place is not a sign of anger. BTW, I hope the moderators observe what’s going on and I’m willing to pay what consequence are due me. Are you?​

Saying it’s your mistake isn’t quite apologizing. Now if I answer you, you’ll have another thing to apologize for: accusing me of not going to answer. Does your know-it-all attitude never stop.​

Asking fair questions about statements don’t mean anything about a specific belief. For instance: if someone says, “I have faith in Jesus and I will show it jumping off a high building.” If I reply, “How does that show you have faith in Jesus?” Does that mean I don’t believe having faith is Jesus is important? Absolutely not.

 

[Dokimas]

As for Once Saved Always Saved I don’t think there’s a straight forward answer. I also think there are two perspectives to this question: God’s and ours. From God’s perspective He knows who are His and in that case, yes I think whom God saves are always saved.​

From our perspective: I believe we can accept salvation through Jesus Christ and sometime down the road, we could give it back never to get another chance. I don’t believe it’s a matter of a specific sin that gets us ‘unsaved’ but rather a matter of true faith rejected.​

At one time I was a OSAS. After examining the verses in the Bible over and over and over again, from our perspective I don’t hold to that belief anymore. However, as I’ve read posts here on this thread, IMO, there are many misunderstandings from the anti-OSAS position. So I ask questions.​

Let me define my understanding of true faith:

IMO, true faith has several aspects to it…

1. It has to have an Object: Jesus Christ.
2. It has to have correct understandings about that Object: Jesus is God the Son.
3. It has to respond to the Object obediently.

Imo, true faith must be in that order, for they are the order of importance.

 

[Cursilista]

You obviously don’t understand the discipline of the loving God we serve. Hebrews 12 tells us that if we are God’s child and if we wander into sin, God disciplines us. If we aren’t disciplined, we aren’t His because He only disciplines those He loves.

Heb 12:

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.
11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.​

i fully agree with this line of thinking. I also believe that if you dont accept god’s chastening and rebel, you can loose your salvation. I believe the chastening also occurs after death. I believe that we are not perfect creatures and must be chastised or purged of our wrongful thinking and instructed more fully as to the ways of god. This unpure spiritual state, we are in after death, and the chastising we go through is what we call purgatory. Once we are cleansed by fire, as Paul writes, we are then allowed to enter into the presence of god. I also believe that in our spiritual state we still have a free will to accept this chastising or not. Lucifer and one third of all the angels freely chose to rebel against god and was expelled from heaven.

I believe that the premise of OSAS has to some degree a merit of a second chance promise. We still have to accept the chastising and purging.

I believe that some will have more of a chastising than others. Therefore, salvation is not equally given or guaranteed . We all must answer to god for our sins. Each of us lives our lives differently. When Jesus said that not all who call his name will enter into the kingdom, what did he mean? Could he mean that your not ready to enter or that you messed up your second chance?

 

[elvisman]

Putting you in your place is not a sign of anger. BTW, I hope the moderators observe what’s going on and I’m willing to pay what consequence are due me. Are you?

Hey –*** I’m***** not the one telling you to “shut up”. At least**** try**** to display some manners . . .**

Saying it’s your mistake isn’t quite apologizing. Now if I answer you, you’ll have another thing to apologize for: accusing me of not going to answer. Does your know-it-all attitude never stop.

I don’t owe you an apology – I wasn’t even implying that. **
I was saying that if my perception**** of your belief in OSAS by playing Devil’s Advocate was wrong, it was merely my perception of your actions.**

Asking fair questions about statements don’t mean anything about a specific belief. For instance: if someone says, “I have faith in Jesus and I will show it jumping off a high building.” If I reply, “How does that show you have faith in Jesus?” Does that mean I don’t believe having faith is Jesus is important? Absolutely not.

Again – if my perception of your debating the issue is wrong, I have mistaken your intention.

As for Once Saved Always Saved I don’t think there’s a straight forward answer. I also think there are two perspectives to this question: God’s and ours. From God’s perspective He knows who are His and in that case, yes I think whom God saves are always saved.

From our perspective: I believe we can accept salvation through Jesus Christ and sometime down the road, we could give it back never to get another chance. I don’t believe it’s a matter of a specific sin that gets us ‘unsaved’ but rather a matter of true faith rejected.​

At one time I was a OSAS. After examining the verses in the Bible over and over and over again, from our perspective I don’t hold to that belief anymore. However, as I’ve read posts here on this thread, IMO, there are many misunderstandings from the anti-OSAS position. So I ask questions.​

Let me define my understanding of true faith:

IMO, true faith has several aspects to it…

1. It has to have an Object: Jesus Christ.
2. It has to have correct understandings about that Object: Jesus is God the Son.
3. It has to respond to the Object obediently.
   Imo, true faith must be in that order, for they are the order of importance.**Fair **enough.
   **I would ****add **to this the fact the Scripture – when read in CONTEXT – adamantly refutes OSAS.

---

One must do some pretty complex Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at the doctrine of OSAS.
**Scripture never contradicts itself when taken in context and must ****ALWAYS **compliment itself, because it is the inerrant word of God.

---

**Therefore, in order for the verses that OSAS adherents use to their position to jive with the rest of Scripture, one must be careful. For example, when a verse says we are saved – there are conditions (an enduring faith, and free will to later reject salvation). We must cooperate with God’s grace. God cannot do it for you, because that would mean he forces his love on us.

 

[Dokimas]

Hey –*** I’m***** not the one telling you to “shut up”. At least**** try**** to display some manners . . .**
I don’t owe you an apology – I wasn’t even implying that. **
I was saying that if my perception**** of your belief in OSAS by playing Devil’s Advocate was wrong, it was merely my perception of your actions.**
Again – if my perception of your debating the issue is wrong, I have mistaken your intention.
**Fair **enough.
**I would ****add **to this the fact the Scripture – when read in CONTEXT – adamantly refutes OSAS.

---

One must do some pretty complex Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at the doctrine of OSAS.
Scripture never contradicts itself when taken in context and must **ALWAYS **compliment itself, because it is the inerrant word of God.

---

**Therefore, in order for the verses that OSAS adherents use to their position to ***jive *with the rest of Scripture, one must be careful. For example, when a verse says we are saved – there are conditions (an enduring faith, and free will to later reject salvation). We must cooperate with God’s grace. God cannot do it for you, because that would mean he forces his love on us.

Telling you to shut up isn’t necessarily showing anger. It’s being straighforward and what you should indeed do much more often.​

Telling me to have manners is funny coming from you. I hope you don’t expect me to take you seriously.​

I don’t remember you telling me that you perception of me was … but just simply making an accusation. Very, very, very different. However, I’m glad you have made if clear that you have trouble perceiving things about other people. I’d agree with you on that one.​

There you go again condescend toward others. I perceive that to get some of your understandings you, how did you put it about others, "must do some pretty complex Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at … " some of your doctrinal understandings. I wonder if you have the courage to put aside such understandings in favor of Biblical truth?

 

[NotWorthy]

… meanwhile, back to the thread?

 

[fbl9]

… meanwhile, back to the thread?

not so fast…your sig. don’t we all come to Church naked before God at one time in our lives?
so if some one hasn’t put on the robe of Christ yet they should disregard the latter part of not worthy’s signature.

 

[elvisman]

Telling you to shut up isn’t necessarily showing anger. It’s being straighforward and what you should indeed do much more often.​

Telling me to have manners is funny coming from you. I hope you don’t expect me to take you seriously.​

I don’t remember you telling me that you perception of me was … but just simply making an accusation. Very, very, very different. However, I’m glad you have made if clear that you have trouble perceiving things about other people. I’d agree with you on that one.​

There you go again condescend toward others. I perceive that to get some of your understandings you, how did you put it about others, "must do some pretty complex Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at … " some of your doctrinal understandings. I wonder if you have the courage to put aside such understandings in favor of Biblical truth?

**Hey - bring it on.
If OSAS is what the Bible teaches - prove it. Nobody has yet because the context of Scripture is against you all.

 

[NotWorthy]

not so fast…your sig. don’t we all come to Church naked before God at one time in our lives?
so if some one hasn’t put on the robe of Christ yet they should disregard the latter part of not worthy’s signature.

We should be clothed in Christ, eh? So our dream SHOULDN’T be where we are naked in Church!

 

[Dokimas]

**Hey - *bring ***it on.
If OSAS is what the Bible teaches - prove it. Nobody has yet because the context of Scripture is against you all.

What are you talking about?

 

[Dokimas]

We should be clothed in Christ, eh? So our dream SHOULDN’T be where we are naked in Church!

Ro 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us **put on **the armor of light.
Ro 13:14 But **put on **the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must **put on **incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has **put on **incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
Ga 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have **put on **Christ.
Eph 4:24 and that you **put on **the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having **put on **the breastplate of righteousness,
Col 3:10 and have **put on **the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
Col 3:12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, **put on **tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:14 But above all these things **put on **love, which is the bond of perfection.