A question for some non-catholic,,,The Catholic Church Baptizes infants.

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The Catholic Church Baptizes infants. Show me the Biblical authority to do this?

Where does it say in Holy Scripture, “Do not Baptize infants”? Show me the Biblical authority NOT to Baptize infants?

Jesus Christ said in Matt 28:19, “GO, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…”
He did not say adults only did he? Did he ever put an age limit to receive Baptism?
 
Show me in the Bible were it specifically says to Baptise infants? The scripture,please.
 
Bill_Pick said:
The Catholic Church Baptizes infants. Show me the Biblical authority to do this?

Where does it say in Holy Scripture, “Do not Baptize infants”? Show me the Biblical authority NOT to Baptize infants?

Jesus Christ said in Matt 28:19, “GO, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…”
He did not say adults only did he? Did he ever put an age limit to receive Baptism?
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Exactly what is said is
All not some are to be baptized.
Luke 1:15 John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb and rejoiced when he heard Mary.
Matthew 21:16 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise’?"
Luke Chapter 18
15: Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16: But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and** do not hinder them**; for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 17: Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”
Act 2: 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."

Acts Chapter 16
15: And when she was baptized,** with her household**, she besought us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.Read More
33: And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family
Colossians Chapter 2
11: In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12: and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

No where is there scripture that says children do not need to be baptizes. The Scripture says ALL.
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Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you,** no one** can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above."
4
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
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Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one **can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
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Note what Jesus says “no one” Jesus does not say except for children. Note also Jesus does not say it just once He says it twice.
 
What is it to sin? To willfully go against God’s commandments. Are babies/mentally challenged/those unable to control their actions accountable for something they cannot control? Oh, there will be baptizing of all nations, when the freewill of a person wants to follow God’s word(Implications of wanting to be saved and understanding what God has done for man and what He is to man). I understand the Bible doesn’t speak in specifics about mentally challenged and babies, but it is implied. You have a choice to follow God or not, to be baptized is to understand that you have made a choice to follow God(to abide by his commandments). You ask an infant why he wants to follow Jesus’ example. What if a pregnant mother died along with the unborn child in a car wreck? Will the baby go to hell? Oh, you answer the mother had the intention for her child to be baptized, it’s not the mother’s choice. It’s the baby’s choice to be baptized. All in respectable sayings, I hope I didn’t offend much.

It is a matter of freewill, therefore straight and narrow is the path to righteousness and few will find it, and wide is the gate to destruction. Eh, I forgot where that is in the new testament. But thanks for my thoughts, I don’t mean to argue, just letting in some light on the perspective.

Thanks.
 
LestWeForget said:
. I understand the Bible doesn’t speak in specifics about mentally challenged and babies, but it is implied. You have a choice to follow God or not, to be baptized is to understand that you have made a choice to follow God(to abide by his commandments), therefore straight and narrow is the path to righteousness, and wide is the gate to destruction.

Thanks.
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No the Bible does not mention anything on the mentally challenged but it does on babies. Please look at my previous post which has Scripture specifically about babies. I understand where some say you have to make a choice but I don’t see that in the Bible. I don’t see the early Christians holding that belief. Some like to dismiss the early practice of the Church. Those however are the ones who were taught by the Apostles. Those were the ones who knew what Jesus wanted. Baptizing babies began with Jesus command to Baptize ALL.
I don’t mean to argue, just letting in some light on the perspective.
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I don’t see you as arguing. What you wrote helps to further understanding.
 
rschermer2 said:
Show me in the bible the word…car, computer, etc. Trinity is the word we use to define the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
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That is the point. Not everything that the Bible teaches is directly said.
 
Speaking of the mentally challenged, should they not be baptised because they don’t have an understanding of God or sin?

I’m just throwing this out there, I know that they are part of ALL
 
I’m interested in why someone wouldn’t have a choice. The Bible mentions many examples that gives a choice to follow or leave, we were created with the ability to think, discern good and evil by the standards God set, which sets us apart from animals.

For instance Joshua 24 14-15, if you don’t mind looking up, see for yourself if it is a choice to follow God(which is to do his commandments). I feel like I may have misinterpreted your question though, whoever was talking to me. There are several examples like this in the new testament which means we have a choice to follow the flesh(man) or to follow Jesus(implication of being baptized and be faithful).

And in regards to baptizing the mentally challenged, in this case, incapable of following their wanted actions. If we, not them, chose to baptize them(I can imagine they would say “yes, I want to follow Jesus”, but incapable of being faithful due to their state of mind) wouldn’t they be shooting themselves in the foot because of their inability to have control over there actions? Any thoughts?🤷

All in respect, thanks.
 
LestWeForget said:
I’m interested in why someone wouldn’t have a choice. The Bible mentions many examples that gives a choice to follow or leave, we were created with the ability to think, discern good and evil by the standards God set, which sets us apart from animals.

For instance Joshua 24 14-15, if you don’t mind looking up, see for yourself if it is a choice to follow God(which is to do his commandments). I feel like I may have misinterpreted your question though, whoever was talking to me. There are several examples like this in the new testament which means we have a choice to follow the flesh(man) or to follow Jesus(implication of being baptized and be faithful).

And in regards to baptizing the mentally challenged, in this case, incapable of following their wanted actions. If we, not them, chose to baptize them(I can imagine they would say “yes, I want to follow Jesus”, but incapable of being faithful due to their state of mind) wouldn’t they be shooting themselves in the foot because of their inability to have control over there actions? Any thoughts?🤷

All in respect, thanks.
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Circumcision in the Old Testament prefigured baptism. St. Paul uses the terms, “circumcision of the heart” and the “circumcision of Christ” (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17) to describe the reality of circumcision being a spiritually inward act, not merely an outward sign. The Old Testament type that was circumcision is* now* baptism.**

Baptism was foretold in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:25 states, “I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.”**
When Nicodemus asked Jesus how a person is born again, he replied, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.” (John 3:5).**

This is echoed by St. Peter in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

When St. Peter baptized Cornelius the Centurion, he baptized his entire household including children and servants. (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14)
Just as with the Old Covenant and circumcision, the faith of the parents/guardians will guide the baptized child in the faith with the help of the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant.
 
**The Early Church understood well the importance of baptizing EVERYBODY within the family of believers:

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 A.D. 189]).
Hippolytus
Baptize first the children**, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 A.D.215]).**

**Origen
“The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit” (*Commentaries on Romans *5:9 [A.D. 248]). **

Gregory of Nazianz
**“Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal [of baptism] because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!” (*Oration on Holy Baptism *40:7 [A.D. 388]).

John Chrysostom**
**“You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members” (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]).
Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 A.D. 253]).
Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated** . . . when that infant is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, “Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents” or “by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him,” but, “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit.” The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 A.D. 408]).**
 
The great comission says in Mark 16:16 that, “Anyone who believes {a infant can’t believe} and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to be to believe will be condemned.”
{a infant can’t refuse to believe nor can they accept to believe}
It is not the water of baptism that saves but God’s grace accepted through faith of Christ. Because of Jesus’ response to the criminal on the cross who died with him, we know it is possible to be saved without being baptized. Baptism alone, without faith, does not guarantee {a infant can’t have faith} that a person will go to heaven. Those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior will be condemned reguardless of whether or not they have been baptized.
Acts 2:38-39 says, “Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God {a infant can’t do this} and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise {meaning in the future} is to you and to your children…”
If you want to follow Christ, you must turn from your sins and turn to God and be baptized.
{a infant can’t do this} To turn from sin means to repent, changing the direction of your life from selfishness and rebellion against God’s laws. {a infant can’t do this} At the same time you must turn to Christ, depending on him for forgiveness, mercy, guidance, and purpose. {a infant can’t do this}
Now I have nothing against infant baptism if that is what you believe. I just don’t see it in Scripture, even as most will point out it says the whole household. A infant can’t make the choise to accept or not to accept Christ, to turn from sin, to change direction in their life, to believe in God. A infant just can’t do it.
 
rev_kevin said:
The great comission says in Mark 16:16 that, “Anyone who believes {a infant can’t believe} and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to be to believe will be condemned.”
{a infant can’t refuse to believe nor can they accept to believe}
It is not the water of baptism that saves but God’s grace accepted through faith of Christ. Because of Jesus’ response to the criminal on the cross who died with him, we know it is possible to be saved without being baptized. Baptism alone, without faith, does not guarantee {a infant can’t have faith} that a person will go to heaven. Those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior will be condemned reguardless of whether or not they have been baptized.
Acts 2:38-39 says, “Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God {a infant can’t do this} and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise {meaning in the future} is to you and to your children…”
If you want to follow Christ, you must turn from your sins and turn to God and be baptized.
{a infant can’t do this} To turn from sin means to repent, changing the direction of your life from selfishness and rebellion against God’s laws. {a infant can’t do this} At the same time you must turn to Christ, depending on him for forgiveness, mercy, guidance, and purpose. {a infant can’t do this}
Now I have nothing against infant baptism if that is what you believe. I just don’t see it in Scripture, even as most will point out it says the whole household. A infant can’t make the choise to accept or not to accept Christ, to turn from sin, to change direction in their life, to believe in God. A infant just can’t do it.
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Great Rev and a Blessed Easter for you and your family. God Bless
 
rev_kevin said:
The great comission says in Mark 16:16 that, “Anyone who believes {a infant can’t believe} and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to be to believe will be condemned.{a infant can’t refuse to believe nor can they accept to believe}”
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When John Leaped in his mother’s womb that wasn’t him believing:confused: I don’t know why you say an infant cannot believe. I think John did.
It is not the water of baptism that saves but God’s grace accepted through faith of Christ. Because of Jesus’ response to the criminal on the cross who died with him, we know it is possible to be saved without being baptized.
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I agree mostly with this BUT We believe in three forms of baptism
  1. Baptism of desire. The Criminal on the cross
  2. Baptism of Blood. Those killed for Jesus
  3. Baptism of Water the ordinary way of Baptism.
Baptism alone, without faith, does not guarantee {a infant can’t have faith} that a person will go to heaven. Those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior will be condemned reguardless of whether or not they have been baptized.
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Here we disagree. You state as fact that which you have not establishes as fact. Can an infant have faith. John did.
Now I have nothing against infant baptism if that is what you believe. I just don’t see it in Scripture, even as most will point out it says the whole household. A infant can’t make the choise to accept or not to accept Christ, to turn from sin, to change direction in their life, to believe in God. A infant just can’t do it.
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The Scriptures equate baptism with circumcision which was normally an infant 8 days old. The choice is made like in Jewish circumcision by the parents.
Everything you quote does not explain that Jesus made no exceptions when He said that to enter Heaven you must be Baptized.
 
rev_kevin said:
The great comission says in Mark 16:16 that, “Anyone who believes {a infant can’t believe} and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to be to believe will be condemned.”
{a infant can’t refuse to believe nor can they accept to believe}
It is not the water of baptism that saves but God’s grace accepted through faith of Christ. Because of Jesus’ response to the criminal on the cross who died with him, we know it is possible to be saved without being baptized. Baptism alone, without faith, does not guarantee {a infant can’t have faith} that a person will go to heaven. Those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior will be condemned reguardless of whether or not they have been baptized.
Acts 2:38-39 says, “Each of you must turn from your sins and turn to God {a infant can’t do this} and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise {meaning in the future} is to you and to your children…”
If you want to follow Christ, you must turn from your sins and turn to God and be baptized.
{a infant can’t do this} To turn from sin means to repent, changing the direction of your life from selfishness and rebellion against God’s laws. {a infant can’t do this} At the same time you must turn to Christ, depending on him for forgiveness, mercy, guidance, and purpose. {a infant can’t do this}
Now I have nothing against infant baptism if that is what you believe. I just don’t see it in Scripture, even as most will point out it says the whole household. A infant can’t make the choise to accept or not to accept Christ, to turn from sin, to change direction in their life, to believe in God. A infant just can’t do it.
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Jesus Christ said in Matt 28:19, “GO, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…”
He did not say adults only did he? Did he ever put an age limit to receive Baptism?
 
adrift said:
When John Leaped in his mother’s womb that wasn’t him believing:confused: I don’t know why you say an infant cannot believe. I think John did.

I agree mostly with this BUT We believe in three forms of baptism
  1. Baptism of desire. The Criminal on the cross
  2. Baptism of Blood. Those killed for Jesus
  3. Baptism of Water the ordinary way of Baptism.
Here we disagree. You state as fact that which you have not establishes as fact. Can an infant have faith. John did.

The Scriptures equate baptism with circumcision which was normally an infant 8 days old. The choice is made like in Jewish circumcision by the parents.
Everything you quote does not explain that Jesus made no exceptions when He said that to enter Heaven you must be Baptized.
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Absolutely.
Great post. 👍

Thoughts, RevKev?
Tweety?
 
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