A question for some non-catholic,,,The Catholic Church Baptizes infants.

[elvisman]

Bold statements to a person possibly banned because of innaccurate information.

If you’ve read any dialogue between us, you’d have noticed that I never backed down to any of his false statements (or yours) and always always admonished him.
I didn’t realize that he was banned until after I posted.**

As I’ve pointed out to you before, it is you that is arrogant. Romans 2:3 is a warning to you.

And Matt. 7:15-23 is warning you and your false teachings.

 

[elvisman]

I noticed that you leave out the origin-from 1 (as a connective particle) and Delphus (the womb) brother. Why do you leave this out?
from 1 is a brother, whether born of the same two parents of only of the same father or mother.
What do you say it means here in Galatians 1:19 if not blood brother?

Kevin - I didn’t leave out that possibility - look at # 1 on the list I supplied from the site.

Your problem is that you ONLY see that possibility and discount the rest.

 

[rev_kevin]

**Kevin **- I didn’t leave out that possibility - look at # 1 on the list I supplied from the site.

Your problem is that you ONLY see that possibility and discount the rest.

What do you think it means other than blood brother?

 

[elvisman]

What do you think it means other than blood brother?

**Blood brother is ONE of the definitions of "Adelphos". **The other 9 or so are ALSO definitions of the word.
You keep trying to pigeonhole the word into your one understanding of it and you can’t.

It is a very broad word that means a variety of meanings - as I have stated AND proven ad nauseam.

 

[elvisman]

I’ve not seen your response to my question as to the relationship between John and James and between Andrew and Peter in light of the fact the Bible uses the same word for brother that is used of the men mentioned relating to Jesus.

Adelphos DOES mean uterine brithers as in James & John and Peter & Andrew. As I have stated many times - that is only ONE definition.**

What’s your point? **

 

[adrift]

What do you think it means other than blood brother?

That’s not what it says at ALL, Kevin. Like I showed you, it lists ALL of the possibilities for the word, Adelphos in Galatians 1:19

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For you to glean the one meaning of uterine brothers and assign that one meaning to this passage is to LIE.
Here are the various possibilities for that word, according to the site:

1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

Mary’s question to the angel has never been answered with any logic.

It is a false teaching that she was not a perpetual virgin. It is an affront to God to think that the womb He grew in would be touched by a sinful human.
Mary says she was a perpetual virgin
“I know not man”
There is nowhere that anyone else said to be the child of Mary.
Jesus is said to be “the” son of Mary not “a” son of Mary.

Who was the mother of James and Joses

John identifies their mother as Mary wife Clopas.

For Jesus to give the care of His mother and not to His brother would have been a great insult. The only reason that He would have done so is that He was an only child.
This is what Scripture reveals but the tradition of man reject it for favor of a flawed interpretation.

 

[Dokimas]

You can’t conclude anything since it does not say what happened after the baby was born
You seemingly ignore all that I have posted.

So in the same vein that you asked your question answer this

If the sentence said she was childless until the day she died what would you conclude after she died?

Until does not say anything about what happens after. You assume an answer but assumption does not make it true.

The reason your ‘quote’ is not ‘apples with apples’ is because of context — death. Nothing happened after death. Something can happen after the birth of Jesus.

 

[Dokimas]

You have not responded that same word for brother is used to describe uncle and nephew as in the case of Lot and Abraham.

Could you give me the verse please? Thank you.

 

[Dokimas]

I don’t understand what you mean by this. I don’t think just because he gave inaccurate information that he was banned. Romans is a warning to us all.

Inaccurate info could have been given to the moderators.​

Romans sure is a warning to us ALL.

 

[rev_kevin]

Blood brother is ONE of the definitions of "Adelphos". The other 9 or so are ALSO definitions of the word.
You keep trying to pigeonhole the word into your one understanding of it and you can’t.

It is a very broad word that means a variety of meanings - as I have stated AND proven ad nauseam.

So is it safe to say that we really don’t know if Jesus had brothers or not from the word?

 

[Dokimas]

Wrong.
We don’t "guess" when it comes to the truth in the Scriptures.
We trust in the teachings of the "Pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) - the guardian and custodian of the Scriptures, the Catholic Church.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Dokimas]

If you’ve read any dialogue between us, you’d have noticed that I never backed down to any of his false statements (or yours) and always always admonished him.
I didn’t realize that he was banned until after** I posted.

And Matt. 7:15-23 is warning you and your false teachings.

Thanks for the warning and your opinions of my understanding that you think are false.

 

[Dokimas]

Adelphos DOES mean uterine brithers as in James & John and Peter & Andrew. As I have stated many times - that is only* ONE* definition.

What’s your point**?

My point, you must pick and choose to fit with your understandings as usual.

 

[adrift]

The reason your ‘quote’ is not ‘apples with apples’ is because of context — death. Nothing happened after death. Something can happen after the birth of Jesus.

I am using the definition of the word. It means only up to a time. It does not say what happens after.
If the sentence said, ‘June did not have sex with her husband until her first child was born’, what would you conclude after the baby was born?
You are assuming what happens after but it doesn’t say that June did not have sex with her husband until her first child was born and then she had sex. She might not have.You do not know based upon this sentence. It doesn’t say. Look what you wrote? What would you conclude? You have to make a conclusion not arrive at a fact.
That is why trying to make a difference between usage of the word doesn’t work. Until does not say than it is done. Until dad gets home I will be quiet. Does not say I will not be quite after.
There are other Scriptures that backs this up which I have already posted and has not been disputed.

 

[adrift]

My point, you must pick and choose to fit with your understandings as usual.

Which applies to you more. The evidence has not been disputed. It has been pointed out that Scripture uses all these meanings of brothers. I have pointed out that the brothers mentioned has as their mother identified as wife of Clopas

 

[Dokimas]

I am using the definition of the word. It means only up to a time. It does not say what happens after.
If the sentence said, ‘June did not have sex with her husband until her first child was born’, what would you conclude after the baby was born?
You are assuming what happens after but it doesn’t say that June did not have sex with her husband until her first child was born and then she had sex. She might not have.You do not know based upon this sentence. It doesn’t say. Look what you wrote? What would you conclude? You have to make a conclusion not arrive at a fact.
That is why trying to make a difference between usage of the word doesn’t work. Until does not say than it is done. Until dad gets home I will be quiet. Does not say I will not be quite after.
There are other Scriptures that backs this up which I have already posted and has not been disputed.

I will share with you one example; there are several more in the NT.

Matthew 2:
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt,
15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

What do you assume happened? Did Jesus and His family stay in Egypt after the death of Herod or did they not? NO cheating; don’t look ahead.​

Context is extremely important to understand.

 

[tweetymom]

My point, you must pick and choose to fit with your understandings as usual.

Amen to that.

 

[elvisman]

So is it safe to say that we really don’t know if Jesus had brothers or not from the word?

It is safer to say that he didn’t than to say that he did.

One of the reasons for this is because the James and Joseph (or Joses) spoken of in the Bible are the sons of Mary’s sister (relative) (Matt. 27:56), - the other Mary mentioned along with her husband in John 19:25.**

**Interesting that the Greek word for sister “Adelphe” is used to describe this other Mary. Since it is against Jewish custom for 2 siblings to have the same name - we could surmise that this wasn’t a uterine sister but a relative.

 

[elvisman]

Thanks for your opinion.

My point, you must pick and choose to fit with your understandings as usual.

And my point is that I believe what the historic Christian faith has always taught instead of what some rebellious, prideful men made up in the last 100 years or so.

Funny - your Protestant “Reformers” (Luther, Calvin & Zwingli) agreed with me and the Church when it comes to Mary.
You trust in man-made inventions.

 

[elvisman]

I will share with you one example; there are several more in the NT.

Matthew 2:
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt,
15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

What do you assume happened? Did Jesus and His family stay in Egypt after the death of Herod or did they not? NO cheating; don’t look ahead.​

Context is extremely important to understand.

You of ALL people are the LAST one who should be giving admonishments about context, history, hermeneutics or** anything**** else on this thread. **

Instead** of addressing my challenge about the teachings and practices of the Early Church regarding Baptism - all you could come up with is, "**They were wrong."

**The word *“until” *in Scriptural language has *****more ***than one meaning - as I have demonstrated ad nauseam. Since you have ignored them - I will post them again:

Deut. 34:6** tells us that no one knew the location of his grave "until this present day.”**
Do they know now?
NOPE**.**

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2 Sam. 6:23** tells us that Saul’s daughter, had no children “until the day of her death.”**
Did she have any children AFTER her death?
NOPE**.**

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Acts 2:35** and Luke 20:42-43 BOTH quote Psalm 100:1, where it says, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”**
Does Jesus disappear from the right hand of the Father AFTER his enemies are made his footstool?
NOPE**. **

I have again PROVEN to you that "Until" does NOT necessarily mean a following event.