Not the sin nature, per se. Concupiscence, or the tendency toward sin is one of the effects of the Fall. We are far off from God from the moment we are conceived because we are all born in Adam. Not until we are born again into Christ, the 2nd Adam, are we brought near to Him.
So you are speaking of the sin nature
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No, I am speaking about original sin. The sin nature is the result or the outcome of original sin. Until we are delivered from it, we are hellbound.
"Guanophore:
Code:
The context of the NT is the Catholic Church.It cannot be properly understood outside of it's context.
Disagree with your understanding of the universal church.
** Could that be this is why you don’t properly understand**?
It is the main reason for the differences between those who have received the Apostolic faith from the persons authorized to preach it, and those who have attempted to extract the faith from the pages of Scripture. The NT cannot be separated from the belief system of those who penned it, and those beliefs are found in the Catholic Church.
"Guanophore:
In the quote I posted above, it is clear that Jesus washed the Church in WATER AND WORD. This is a reference to baptism and preaching/teaching.
Thanks for sharing your understanding.
Please reciprocate by sharing yours. What water of washing do you think is referred to here?
When Jesus washed the feet of the Apostles, He told them “unless I wash you, you have no part in me”. This is why the Apostles did not separate the water from the supernatural action of the HS joining the washed person into Christ. To be circumcised is to be brought into the covenant of God. The “circumcision of Christ” is done with water not a knife.
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I appreciate your courtesy, but it is not my opinion. This is the faith of the Apostles that has been infallibly preserved in the Church by the HS.
I recognize that I as an individual may be in error, just as Peter as an individual was in error with his hypocritical actions. However, the Teaching of the Church cannot be wrong because it comes from Christ.
Code:
**Though people that are prone to misunderstanding**
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Exactly! that is WHY we need the gift of infalliblity. We are so prone to misunderstanding that we can never find Truth without divine intervention.
"Guanophore:
What good is a lovey dovey emotional experience, if you are separated from the Truth?
Code:
**Are you purposely misunderstanding what I said or is it by mistake? **
It is most likely that I misunderstood what you said. That was my perception of what kind of church you were seeking.
Code:
**Have you notice I believe you to hold to wrong understanding AND I've never said you hold to heretical teachings?**
** That would be unfair of me. Didn’t Jesus say something about doing unto others …?**
Yes, I do notice that, and I am sure it must be very difficult, since I am sure you believe that I have.
I also want to be clear that I am not accusing YOU of heresy. It seems clear that you believe what you do in all sincerity, and you do not realize how far your beliefs have departed from what the Apostles believed and taught.
"Guanophore:
Disobedience to what? How did Joshua correct the problem? The answer to this will give you an idea of why the shadow and figure of the OT is so important.
Code:
**If you bring forward that discussion into another post, I'll try to understand your point.**
I understood you to say that you were not aware of any consequences for failure of the Israelites to circumcise.
v** What I said, if we’re remembering the same conversation, was that Jesus and the Church are the same.**
If that is true, the the Church could have no error at all.
**Have I said the CC is in apostacy? **
That is how I understand your stance on the Early FAthers. If the Truth is not found in their writings, then all the first generation of the Apostles fell away from the faith immediately. If they did not receive the sacraments from the Apostles, and began baptizing infants in contradiction to what the Apostles taught, then they were in apostasy.
Have I said Jesus has abandoned His church?
Yes. If He did not lead them into all Truth, then what other reason is there? Either they all abandonded the faith they were taught, or He abandoned them. Is there another way to explain your position that their practices departed from what He taught?
