A question for some non-catholic,,,The Catholic Church Baptizes infants.

[guanophore]

• What children? What Mary?

The children listed as “brothers and sisters” of Jesus in Nazareth are the children of “the other Mary”, who is also described as the “sister” of the mother of our Lord.

I have heard the speculation that they are both from the same parents, but I find it hard to believe that a family would have two Marys. I think it is more likely that her husband, Alphaeus, is a brother of the Virgin Mary, or that Mary is the sister of Joseph. All we know is that they are near relatives, who grew up together as brothers and sisters.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Oh I see! Now you know what God thinks? Infant baptism means nothing to God? What arrogance you display.

Infant baptism means nothing to God, only to the parents of the infants that belong to religions to which it is taught as a matter of their faith and practice. To each their own faith; God will separate the tares from the wheat, the righteous from the unrighteous, the wicked from the blessed, the goats from the sheep et al He is sovereign and He means what He says and said what He meant and infant baptism He said nothing and on the removal of sin via infant baptism He said nothing, but on salvation of men He gave the foolish message of the Gospel. Often referred to as “the gospel of our salvation”.

If you want to see the Gospel in a nutshell read Titus 3:4-7 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and {His} love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life. "

One could spend a lifetime studying this 3 passages; it is that rich and for the Christian the gospel. No water - sorry.

 

[guanophore]

-+
For me to have an intelligent conversation is oxymoronic.

Thanks Doki, I needed a good chortle!

 

[guanophore]

So what if it’s not clear whether or not Mary had other children; So what?

I can see how people might misunderstand the Scriptures on this point. So what? Those who have received the Apostolic faith accept that Mary was a perpetual Virgin. When this is rejected, people have departed from the Apostolic faith. The problem is that the faith is ONE. IT is a seamless garment. When one begins to start unravelling that which was handed down by the Apostles, very quickly one has a “different gospel”.​

• You have NOT proven anything with 'household’s being baptized. How many households were baptized in the NT out of the thousand and thousands of adults that were baptized? Very SMALL odds that you are correct. MUCH greater odds that I’m correct. Of course, God will do what He’ll do and He doesn’t care about the odds.

I agree. I don’t think it is possible to “prove” from the NT that the Apostles baptized infants. We understand what is written in the way we do because we have accepted Sacred Tradtition.​

 

[Masters_Servant]

Nice to meet you too. I have Jesus dwelling in my heart. I go to Catholic Church with hubby, but really am a Southern Baptist in my heart. That is why I an ridiculed so much here. But I consider it a blessing

Yes my dear; God said to count it as all joy when people persecute you for His name sake and He said it would happen.

 

[Masters_Servant]

You can’t become Catholic because Catholics wrote the NT?

Do you have any idea how foolish you and others sound when you make statements like that above? You only show your transparency. Catholics wrote the NT; Your first Pope was a Jewish Christian; are Catholics now Jews to? I’m not amazed at what comes out of your mouth and some of you seem to be using the same teleprompter, as though you were one using multiple identities. It would be very funny, some of what you say, if the consequences were not so high. You also, have some Protestant tendencies, which explains part of your transparent confusion as you appear to have some Protestant background; I hope for your sake that your religion saves you.​

LOL. Were you advocating that she had other children by supernatural means? Or is there some way a person can continue to be a virgin, and still have kids?

The Lord said she had kids; I believe Him, why don’t you?

Why do you think all the first generation of Apostolic disciples misunderstood this? Why did they think Mary was a perpetual virgin?

Most of not all didn’t and if they did, they it is blasphemy against the Lord Himself. Depends on how you twist the meaning of generation or more like stretch what a generation is to fit your theology.

If they got off the rails with this fact, then how many other things are wrong? How can we know the NT is right? Everyone present who helped to put the 27 books together believed Mary was a perpetual virgin!

See first comment above; almost amazing what comes out, but Not.

 

[guanophore]

How many denomination or fractions are within the Catholic Church; with the devout in the minority? 30,000 or more at least…LOL

No, the Catholic Church is perfect in unity. The individuals that claim to be members of her often are not in unity or obedience to the faith of the Apostles. This is especially true of American Catholics, who willfully disobey the Teachings. Althought many don’t realize it, they have separated themselves from the Church. They are Protestants, and have departed from Catholicity.

The Church has perfect unity because Jesus is her Head, and the HS is her soul. Those who choose to separate themselves have left the unity of the Truth.

 

[guanophore]

Nice to meet you too. I have Jesus dwelling in my heart. I go to Catholic Church with hubby, but really am a Southern Baptist in my heart. That is why I an ridiculed so much here. But I consider it a blessing

I have not found anything to ridicule, since you decided to be more honest in your affiliation.

 

[guanophore]

Infant baptism means nothing to God, only to the parents of the infants that belong to religions to which it is taught as a matter of their faith and practice. To each their own faith;

I guess you would have to say the same about circumcision?

If circumcision meant nothing to God, why did He command it?

 He is sovereign and He means what He says and said what He meant and infant baptism He said nothing and on the removal of sin via infant baptism He said nothing,

Well we read it differently, don’t we? When He said “suffer the children to come unto Me, and hinder them not”, we believe He meant what He said!

If you want to see the Gospel in a nutshell read Titus 3:4-7 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and {His} love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life. "

One could spend a lifetime studying this 3 passages; it is that rich and for the Christian the gospel. No water - sorry.

I agree there is a lifetime of study in these. However, you have missed the mark on the matter of water. The washing of regeneration is a reference to water baptism.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I beg your pardon? Arrogance? You applaud what he wrote? Infant baptism does **NOTHING **for God? How does MS know? **Does he know exactly what God thinks? ** But you do not view that arrogance? You believe that nonsense?

Smell the coffee and roses…

TweetyMom has something you do not; I spotted her as a Sister in a matter of a few posts; why? To answer your question; which TweetyMom already knows why and you cannot know why; at least at this point, even after God explains it to you; you will still slander on of His children by calling them “arrogant”; something that seems to be routine by some here in putting down our faith, but we’ll give it a try anyway.

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

But here is the real evidence; the above was a bonus for TweetyMom

But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? **But we have the mind of Christ. **

Yes, the Christian has the mind of Christ; just as it is written. We don’t know everything that God thinks, but the more diligent the Christian is in obedience and in study and in prayer; especially for wisdom in understanding; the Lord gives generously. Listen to Jesus biological brother James as he writes under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and if you have ears, then hear and if you have eyes, then see.

**But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. **

This only pertains to the Christian; so do you have the mind of Christ?

 

[guanophore]

Do you have any idea how foolish you and others sound when you make statements like that above? You only show your transparency. Catholics wrote the NT;

The men who were inspired, by God, that worte, were Catholic. I did not mean to suggest that the HS was not the primary author. My point is that there is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the Catholic faith because they both come from the same Source.

Your first Pope was a Jewish Christian; are Catholics now Jews to?

There are Messianic Jews, and some of them are Catholic. I don’t think many, thought, compared to the Gentile Catholics.

I hope for your sake that your religion saves you.

This is a ridiculous thing to say, Servant. There is no name under heaven by which we may be saved but Christ Jesus. He purchased our salvation through His blood, on the cross. Religion is a good thing, but it can’t save anyone.

The Lord said she had kids; I believe Him, why don't you?

because I know you misunderstood what you read. I have received the faith from the Apostles, and they all knew Jesus was the only son of his mother.

How do you dispense with the passages that indicate these children belonged to another Mary?

See first comment above; almost amazing what comes out, but Not.

Modern day American Evangelicals have such a truncated gospel that they believe Catholics “added” all these things. On the contrary, the Reformers started jettisoning parts of the faith, and more and more is removed dailly.

 

[Masters_Servant]

The children listed as “brothers and sisters” of Jesus in Nazareth are the children of “the other Mary”, who is also described as the “sister” of the mother of our Lord.

I have heard the speculation that they are both from the same parents, but I find it hard to believe that a family would have two Marys. I think it is more likely that her husband, Alphaeus, is a brother of the Virgin Mary, or that Mary is the sister of Joseph. All we know is that they are near relatives, who grew up together as brothers and sisters.

How can you know they were brothers and sisters? You can’t know that for sure can you based on all the baseless arguments that Jesus did not have brothers and sisters as the Scripture said; so how can you possibly know these were siblings according to all your arguments against what Jesus said; man can have it both ways, but not with God.

 

[guanophore]

How can you know they were brothers and sisters?

Because Scripture says so?

  You can't know that for sure can you based on all the baseless arguments that Jesus did not have brothers and sisters as the Scripture said;

We do not find the Sacred traditions preserved by the HS in the Church “baseless”. What you are saying is that God is not able to preserve His Word.

Scripture does not say that the Mother of Jesus had any other children. My question to you is, how do you dispense with all the verses that indicate those persons referred to as “brothers and sisters” of the Lord are the offspring of “the other Mary”.

 so how can you possibly know these were siblings according to all your arguments against what Jesus said; man can have it both ways, but not with God.

One has to understand the Scriptures in their context. In Hebrew culture, all those relatives in the clan that were too closely related for marriage are considered brother and sister. These were near kin of Jesus, but were not the children of His mother.

 

[tweetymom]

I have not found anything to ridicule, since you decided to be more honest in your affiliation.

I remember all the names you called me especially a drunk

 

[Dancelittleewok]

We agree on something; glad I am a Christian with the mind of Christ and I praise God and wonder; why me Lord?

Mind commenting on Romans 6:24 and Col 2:12 in regards to baptism? Since you believe that only Christians can understand the Gospel, then why do you evangelize to people aren’t Christian and ergo, cannot understand it to begin with?

Not taught in Scripture; so refer back to above and pray!!

See Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus as well the Scripture referenced above.

Again you prove above; God said people go to hell for rejecting; a baby cannot reject can they? Hello.
I’ll go out on a limb and say there will be more babies, toddlers and others under the age of accountability in the Kingdom, than adults.

Rejecting means to knowing and willfully reject God; one must have free will do it. According to Calvinism, the non-elect weren’t apart of Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross; God, from whatever reason, decided to skip them in His plan of salvation. So…

1. Are babies and those under the age of accountability seen automatically as the elect? If they are, do you they lose “elect” status post the age of accountability since they are now capable of rejecting God?
2. Are babies born with the sin nature? How can God let them into Heaven and still be Just?

Do tell…
P.S. Still waiting for a response on post 852.

 

[Masters_Servant]

No, the Catholic Church is perfect in unity. The individuals that claim to be members of her often are not in unity or obedience to the faith of the Apostles. This is especially true of American Catholics, who willfully disobey the Teachings. Althought many don’t realize it, they have separated themselves from the Church. They are Protestants, and have departed from Catholicity.

The Church has perfect unity because Jesus is her Head, and the HS is her soul. Those who choose to separate themselves have left the unity of the Truth.

This is new Catholic Doctrine? Can you point to a link, where your new theology listed above is written; I don’t recall ever coming across this teaching. Let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are right, then a majority of the Billion Catholics are not Catholics by your new standard and by what you said are “Protestants”…LOL Then they do not know it…LOL I’m starting to really like you now for your humor; thanks for the chuckles, we could all use more of them.

 

[Masters_Servant]

The men who were inspired, by God, that worte, were Catholic. I did not mean to suggest that the HS was not the primary author. My point is that there is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the Catholic faith because they both come from the same Source.

There are Messianic Jews, and some of them are Catholic. I don’t think many, thought, compared to the Gentile Catholics.

This is a ridiculous thing to say, Servant. There is no name under heaven by which we may be saved but Christ Jesus. He purchased our salvation through His blood, on the cross. Religion is a good thing, but it can’t save anyone.

because I know you misunderstood what you read. I have received the faith from the Apostles, and they all knew Jesus was the only son of his mother.

How do you dispense with the passages that indicate these children belonged to another Mary?

Modern day American Evangelicals have such a truncated gospel that they believe Catholics “added” all these things. On the contrary, the Reformers started jettisoning parts of the faith, and more and more is removed dailly.

The Lord said it Himself; yet you do not believe Him…nothing more can be said than what Jesus Himself said; you chose to deny what the Lord has said. I can’t help you.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Mind commenting on Romans 6:24 and Col 2:12 in regards to baptism? Since you believe that only Christians can understand the Gospel, then why do you evangelize to people aren’t Christian and ergo, cannot understand it to begin with?

See Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus as well the Scripture referenced above.

Rejecting means to knowing and willfully reject God; one must have free will do it. According to Calvinism, the non-elect weren’t apart of Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross; God, from whatever reason, decided to skip them in His plan of salvation. So…

1. Are babies and those under the age of accountability seen automatically as the elect? If they are, do you they lose “elect” status post the age of accountability since they are now capable of rejecting God?
2. Are babies born with the sin nature? How can God let them into Heaven and still be Just?

Do tell…
P.S. Still waiting for a response on post 852.

1. That is a good question, but in order to reject; one must be aware…babies cannot reject that which they cannot understand and God is the God of Grace and believe me, God does not condemn those who do not reject Him; He saves them and He condemns those that reject them; so it is implicit by the nature of God and by what god has said concerning when people are condemned that all those who die under the age of accountability are with God. Jesus obviously had a “speacial place in His heart” for the “little ones”.
2. Yes; because Jesus died on the cross to atone for all sin; as it is written. I can’t believe you have to ask such basic questions; do you ever pick up the Bible?

Post 852 doesn’t contain a question and the comments you made are not found in the Bible; so what would youl ike to hear…“great post” or “good job” or “thatta-boy”?

 

[blazerdave]

A chill pill may be in order.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I remember all the names you called me especially a drunk

It is called selective memory; It doesn’t matter; he has his very own faith and we respect that even if we disagree with 99.9% of it, he is entitled to his belief’s; just as you and I are. He knows when people are brothers and sisters and denies when the Lord says it…go figure.