A question for some Protestants who feel it is necessary to proselytize Catholics

[Nicea325]

*Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Well I hate to break the reality news to you,non-Catholics may not believe their churches were not founded by mere mortals,but they were and it is called history. Not trying to be rude,but it is true so why deny it? *

If they don’t believe it, then it’s not that they are trying to deny what is true – they just don’t believe it.

Exactly! Because they refuse to take the time to learn the facts. It is much more comfortable to remain in one’s comfort zone,then to take the time to learn history and realize one has been wrong.

There’s a difference between denying what is true, and believing something to be true.

And believing something to be true is not always the truth. Precisely why they fail to comprehend because they do not accept historical facts. There is no way around it, all non-Catholic churches have a human founder or founders. Sorry.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

First off, let me say that the reason I’m here on this site is because a Roman friend of mine said I should come here, just to make sure what’s being presented isn’t broad and sometimes mistaken generalities about “Protestants”. I am not here to tell Roman Catholics who are disgruntled with the Roman Church to come to the other side because we have sunshine and rainbows. I think every person needs to come to their own realization about their faith and beliefs, and make decisions on their own.

Therefore, one of my questions is and what concerns me is that once you are here and learn what Catholics and the Catholic Church teaches and believes about leaving the Catholic Church once you have accepted the fullness of truth and then decides to turn your back on it. And knowing full well that a Catholic is placing themselves in great peril of sin.

With my preface in mind, I think it needs to be said, if someone Roman Catholic here is telling me, I can’t stand my Church tell me about yours. I’m not going to say, “Well I can’t do that because the Roman Church is the only true Church and by leaving her you are not accepting the fullness of truth and are placing yourself in great peril of sin and going to hell.” I happen to believe that that’s a load of horse puckey. It seems that my Truth as a Lutheran and your Truth as a Roman Catholic are not really all that different. However, most Roman Catholics find that my lack of belief or faith in the “Petrine Ministry” is tantamount to me renouncing Christ and my one way ticket to the dark abyss. And please don’t counter this with, “Well Christ said, 'Upon this rock…” I am not going to deny that isn’t in the Gospel. However, at the same time, I will be more than happy to say that I firmly believe that Christ would be mortified to see what “the successors of Peter” have done to HIS Church and in HIS name.

Why are the Protestants here are still willing to lead a Catholic, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith, into apostasy. How Christian and how much Christian charity is being applied here to do such a thing. If Protestants believe that Catholics are Christians, then why the need to prostulize them. To do this then the Protestants must consider the Catholic Christian to be inferior to them. I find this a perilous and arrogant position to take. Is it a matter of pride and believing that your beliefs and faith is the only legitimate one? Do some of the Protestants here really believe that the Catholic Church and Catholic faith is inferior to yours, regardless of theological differences? Do you really believe that it is your mission to lead a Catholic, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the Truth? How are your beliefs and faiths superior to the Catholic beliefs and faiths? Remember we all have the same Bible and aside from some grammatical differences in whatever translation, the Catholic and Protestant Gospels are the same.

And here it is Ladies and Gentleman, the shoe on the other foot. Let me take the paragraph above and change some of the words and tell me how familiar this sounds. Any Protestants want to chime in?

"Why are the Roman Catholics here are still willing to lead a Protestant, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith or not, into apostasy. How Christian and how much Christian charity is being applied here to do such a thing. If Roman Catholics believe that Protestants are Christians, then why the need to prostulize**(sp)** them. To do this then the Roman Catholics must consider the Protestant Christian to be inferior to them. I find this a perilous and arrogant position to take. Is it a matter of pride and believing that your beliefs and faith is the only legitimate one? Do some of the Roman Catholics here really believe that the Lutheran (only since I’m Lutheran) Church and Protestant faith is inferior to yours, regardless of theological differences? Do you really believe that it is your mission to lead a Protestant, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the Truth? How are your beliefs and faiths superior to Protestant beliefs and faiths? Remember we all have the same Bible and aside from some grammatical differences in whatever translation, the Protestant and Roman Catholic Gospels are the same.

Do you really believe that it is your mission to lead a Catholic, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the Truth?

I’m sure there are those out there that feel it is their mission to take away as many numbers from the Roman Church as they possibly can. I think that is completely wrong and arrogant. In case you didn’t get the point of the paragraph above, do your really feel that you are so superior to the Orthodox or the Anglicans or the Lutherans that you think you have THE TRUTH? I’m not finding charity or humility in that at all.

Finally please show me where the Christian charity is in leading a Catholic who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the into apostasy.

I just need to try and understand your logic.

Christian charity? Really? If the best argument you have of making someone stay in the church is, “Young man if you leave this Church, you are going straight to hell,” I think the Protestant who is “luring” them away is practicing Christian charity.

 

[Hisalone]

False. But a topic for another thread.

Also, this proves the OP’s point.

FSC

Actually it is true.

 

[Hisalone]

I totally agree that Christ founded Christianity. However, since Catholicism (and Orthodox) are the fullness of Christianity, why would somebody wish to be less than 'full Christians" doctrinally speaking?

Mind you, I’m not saying that devout Protestants are not ‘fully Christian’. I’m not saying that devout Protestants are not even (as individuals) more full in their practice as Christians than an individual Catholic might be.

But I am saying that all else being equal, a person who wished to be fully Christian would find greater fullness in Catholic doctrine than in any Protestant doctrines.

Christianity is not about a fullness of doctrine. It is about living and walking with God as He lives inside of you. Although most Catholics would not disagree with me this essential point of Christianity is not their focus. That is why it is neccesary that Catholics be evangelized.

 

[Hisalone]

In Peace, Christ founded only One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

I am a member of Christ’s church.

 

[benidict]

Christianity is not about a fullness of doctrine. It is about living and walking with God as He lives inside of you. Although most Catholics would not disagree with me this essential point of Christianity is not their focus. That is why it is neccesary that Catholics be evangelized.

by all means, please do. evangelize me. since you are wiser than those whom Christ set up as overseers over us, to lead and guide us. plz share your wisdom and lead me back into the sea of Chaos that is called…protestantism. i cant wait to return. i should say confusion, not chaos.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Well I hate to break the reality news to you,non-Catholics may not believe their churches were not founded by mere mortals,but they were and it is called history. Not trying to be rude,but it is true so why deny it?

As a Lutheran, I will most certainly attest that my Church was started by a mortal man, Leo X, Bishop of Rome. So Nicea325, not trying to be rude, but you do realize that your Church is run by a bunch of old mortal men with nearly zero connection to the real world or the faithful at large. That’s the reality, so why deny it.

 

[Rita88]

First off, let me clarify that when I say “Protestants” I am referring to some not all “Protestants”. Many “Protestants” here are here to learn about Catholicism and what Catholics believe. They and are very respectful and exhibit great Christian charity. They do believe differently as is their right to, but in no way do they demean and disrespect another Christian brothers and sisters. They are here to learn. To them I say thank you and the Peace of Christ be with you.

Therefore, one of my questions is and what concerns me is that once you are here and learn what Catholics and the Catholic Church teaches and believes about leaving the Catholic Church once you have accepted the fullness of truth and then decides to turn your back on it. And knowing full well that a Catholic is placing themselves in great peril of sin.

Why are the Protestants here are still willing to lead a Catholic, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith, into apostasy. How Christian and how much Christian charity is being applied here to do such a thing. If Protestants believe that Catholics are Christians, then why the need to prostulize them. To do this then the Protestants must consider the Catholic Christian to be inferior to them. I find this a perilous and arrogant position to take. Is it a matter of pride and believing that your beliefs and faith is the only legitimate one?

Do some of the Protestants here really believe that the Catholic Church and Catholic faith is inferior to yours, regardless of theological differences?

Do you really believe that it is your mission to lead a Catholic, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the Truth?

How are your beliefs and faiths superior to the Catholic beliefs and faiths? Remember we all have the same Bible and aside from some grammatical differences in whatever translation, the Catholic and Protestant Gospels are the same.

Finally please show me where the Christian charity is in leading a Catholic who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the into apostasy.

I just need to try and understand your logic.

As with the Protestant brothers and sisters above who do respect the Catholic, I also wish the Peace of Christ be with you also.

I’m going to stick my head on the butcher’s block a moment, and only reply to the original posting. I think, friend, it is two very different theologies which allow some protestants to embrace their Catholic (or other denomination) in Christ, and others to attempt to convert them.

The former sees God alive throughout all his creation, at work in every experession of His Church (be it Catholic, Anglican or any other - they are all His.) What matters to these people is that they rejoice in both their similarities and differences; marvelling in the way that God works differently in each one of us. After all, Christ created His Church. I believe He knew full well that it would divide just like the tounges. We may not understand what our fellow disciples are saying, but we marvel that they proclaim His work.

The latter sees God as someone whom is explicitly defined through specific doctrine, holding that there is only one Truth of God. They set their hearts on proclaiming this truth: attempting to correct those who do not hold it, and set their eyes on the Lord. Some may do this because they also love you, and want you to know the fullness of God as they see it. Others may do this because they think it’s foolish not to believe what they do… but I prefer the concept of it being a loving action.

It is doubtless that God commissions us to The Truth for our neighbours sake, but we all see this as being different things.

I meant to ask though, do we really have the same bible? That is perhaps a different question to be argued upon… but my understanding is that we don’t. But now I’m being unintentionally awkward: yes, the fundamental understandings are the same.

Only when we face God will we ever know if one denomination is inferior to the other. It’s His church, so it’s His call. We have no right to judge any one, as we can never fully discern His purpose!

Anyway, Blessings Y’all.

May God’s bless you with love, laughter and life ever after xxxx

 

[benidict]

As a Lutheran, I will most certainly attest that my Church was started by a mortal man, Leo X, Bishop of Rome. So Nicea325, not trying to be rude, but you do realize that your Church is run by a bunch of old mortal men with nearly zero connection to the real world or the faithful at large. That’s the reality, so why deny it.

hi mike. but in the Lutheran and Catholic communions, as well as the Anglican, and Orthodox. i am looking forward to the day, when we can all sit once again at the same table for the Lords supper. we are seperated only by a few degrees. so hopefully, we can at some point be led by these “grumpy” old mortal men, as one family ::grouphug: peace

 

[Rita88]

i am looking forward to the day, when we can all sit once again at the same table for the Lords supper.

beautifully put!!!

 

[Rita88]

i am looking forward to the day, when we can all sit once again at the same table for the Lords supper. we are seperated only by a few degrees.

Beautifully put!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Christianity is not about a fullness of doctrine. It is about living and walking with God as He lives inside of you. Although most Catholics would not disagree with me this essential point of Christianity is not their focus. That is why it is neccesary that Catholics be evangelized.

So you’re telling me that because we follow the fullness of Christ’s teachings (doctrine; I fear you have confused this with something like discipline), that somehow we Catholics are **not living and walking with God, and that He is NOT in us? **

THat’s news to me. In fact since I receive the Eucharist, God is actually within me whereas the Protestant who thinks of the Eucharist as something ‘symbolic’ does not have God 'within him" as I do.

It would be absolutely appallingly bad manners and arrogance of the highest degree for someone who had already misjudged Catholics completely (as you just have, hisalone) to come on and try to ‘evangelize them away’ to a false doctrine. I trust that you DO remember the rules of these fora? You must respect **our Catholic faith. You are NOT to try to 'evangelize the . **

We already are Christians who follow the fullness of truth–which means, of course that we follow the fullness of Christ. Surely you won’t separate Him from truth?

 

[benidict]

Beautifully put!

thank you. i have a very good friend who converted from the baptist faith a few years before i did. he was a minister. he is now a priest in the episcipalian communion. i ended up Catholic. but its interesting how we each came to the same conclusions based off our studies. we had lost touch. we have so many similarities, i do not consider the anglicans to be protestants. or the orthodox for that matter. Peace

 

[Hisalone]

So you’re telling me that because we follow the fullness of Christ’s teachings (doctrine; I fear you have confused this with something like discipline), that somehow we Catholics are **not living and walking with God, and that He is NOT in us? **

THat’s news to me. In fact since I receive the Eucharist, God is actually within me whereas the Protestant who thinks of the Eucharist as something ‘symbolic’ does not have God 'within him" as I do.

It would be absolutely appallingly bad manners and arrogance of the highest degree for someone who had already misjudged Catholics completely (as you just have, hisalone) to come on and try to ‘evangelize them away’ to a false doctrine. I trust that you DO remember the rules of these fora? You must respect **our Catholic faith. You are NOT to try to 'evangelize the . **

We already are Christians who follow the fullness of truth–which means, of course that we follow the fullness of Christ. Surely you won’t separate Him from truth?

I have answered the OP? If Catholics dont want to know what we believe dont ask. But as par for the course on this forum when a nonCatholic answers honestly they are vilified. I see I have raised your ire. It is the same ire that the OT prophets raised when the prophets spoke against false belief and worship that the children of Isreal were engaged in.

 

[benidict]

I have answered the OP? If Catholics dont want to know what we believe dont ask. But as par for the course on this forum when a nonCatholic answers honestly they are vilified. I see I have raised your ire. It is the same ire that the OT prophets raised when the prophets spoke against false belief and worship that the children of Isreal were engaged in.

well you havent raised my ire my friend. what do you believe. could you reveal your denominational background so we could have a little better idea. im a former baptist. so what in Catholocism is false belief and worship? id really like to know. also are you a prophet? peace

 

[KathleenGee]

Non Catholics here are not getting the gist of what this thread is about…

and they don’t understand by what we mean is the fullness of faith…we have Christ’s authority through the apostolics and their teachings, we have the sacraments, communion of saints, the practices of the liturgical year, various prayer and spiritual forms, feast days, indulgences (work???), shrines, monasteries, small faith traditions, living in a universal church and experiencing the unity of Christ in the Word and Eucharist.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I have answered the OP? If Catholics dont want to know what we believe dont ask. But as par for the course on this forum when a nonCatholic answers honestly they are vilified. I see I have raised your ire. It is the same ire that the OT prophets raised when the prophets spoke against false belief and worship that the children of Isreal were engaged in.

I did not vilify you and you have not ‘raised my ire’. Certainly comparing yourself to a prophet and me to somebody engaged in ‘false belief’ is a tad arrogant coming from a ‘guest’ who is criticizing the host–in the host’s ‘house’–for his beliefs.

And if we were to come to a forum where all believers shared ‘your’ opinions, and we spoke on that to you the way that you just did to us. . . you would, of course, be honored by our honesty, right? You would not dream of vilifying ‘us’ or making false statements and such, now would you? No, we could speak honestly of our beliefs and you would greet our speech with cries of joy and affirmation, wouldn’t you?

 

[benidict]

I did not vilify you and you have not ‘raised my ire’. Certainly comparing yourself to a prophet and me to somebody engaged in ‘false belief’ is a tad arrogant coming from a ‘guest’ who is criticizing the host–in the host’s ‘house’–for his beliefs.

And if we were to come to a forum where all believers shared ‘your’ opinions, and we spoke on that to you the way that you just did to us. . . you would, of course, be honored by our honesty, right? You would not dream of vilifying ‘us’ or making false statements and such, now would you? No, we could speak honestly of our beliefs and you would greet our speech with cries of joy and affirmation, wouldn’t you?

good luck getting on such a forum… put that you are Catholic down, and they will shoot you to the curb real quick. believe me ive tried, ive really tried. peace

 

[wmscott]

I am a member of Christ’s church.

And yet you willingly demean other Christians. So please explain to me what Christ teaches in your church that leads you to slander other Christians.

 

[wmscott]

First off, let me say that the reason I’m here on this site is because a Roman friend of mine said I should come here, just to make sure what’s being presented isn’t broad and sometimes mistaken generalities about “Protestants”. I am not here to tell Roman Catholics who are disgruntled with the Roman Church to come to the other side because we have sunshine and rainbows. I think every person needs to come to their own realization about their faith and beliefs, and make decisions on their own.

With my preface in mind, I think it needs to be said, if someone Roman Catholic here is telling me, I can’t stand my Church tell me about yours. I’m not going to say, “Well I can’t do that because the Roman Church is the only true Church and by leaving her you are not accepting the fullness of truth and are placing yourself in great peril of sin and going to hell.” I happen to believe that that’s a load of horse puckey. It seems that my Truth as a Lutheran and your Truth as a Roman Catholic are not really all that different. However, most Roman Catholics find that my lack of belief or faith in the “Petrine Ministry” is tantamount to me renouncing Christ and my one way ticket to the dark abyss. And please don’t counter this with, “Well Christ said, 'Upon this rock…” I am not going to deny that isn’t in the Gospel. However, at the same time, I will be more than happy to say that I firmly believe that Christ would be mortified to see what “the successors of Peter” have done to HIS Church and in HIS name.

And here it is Ladies and Gentleman, the shoe on the other foot. Let me take the paragraph above and change some of the words and tell me how familiar this sounds. Any Protestants want to chime in?

"Why are the Roman Catholics here are still willing to lead a Protestant, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith or not, into apostasy. How Christian and how much Christian charity is being applied here to do such a thing. If Roman Catholics believe that Protestants are Christians, then why the need to prostulize**(sp)** them. To do this then the Roman Catholics must consider the Protestant Christian to be inferior to them. I find this a perilous and arrogant position to take. Is it a matter of pride and believing that your beliefs and faith is the only legitimate one? Do some of the Roman Catholics here really believe that the Lutheran (only since I’m Lutheran) Church and Protestant faith is inferior to yours, regardless of theological differences? Do you really believe that it is your mission to lead a Protestant, who is at a spiritual low and weakened in his or her faith away from the Truth? How are your beliefs and faiths superior to Protestant beliefs and faiths? Remember we all have the same Bible and aside from some grammatical differences in whatever translation, the Protestant and Roman Catholic Gospels are the same.

I’m sure there are those out there that feel it is their mission to take away as many numbers from the Roman Church as they possibly can. I think that is completely wrong and arrogant. In case you didn’t get the point of the paragraph above, do your really feel that you are so superior to the Orthodox or the Anglicans or the Lutherans that you think you have THE TRUTH? I’m not finding charity or humility in that at all.

Christian charity? Really? If the best argument you have of making someone stay in the church is, “Young man if you leave this Church, you are going straight to hell,” I think the Protestant who is “luring” them away is practicing Christian charity.

Thanks for your answers and insight, it is the weekend and have lots of stuff on my plate, however, I do want to respond because you make some good points and a few I want to clarify on as to what you think I am asking. Talk to you soon. peace.