A question for some Protestants who feel it is necessary to proselytize Catholics

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I’d like to remind my Catholic and Protestant brethren that “Ex Catholics” make the absolute most vehement “Anti-Catholics”. It’s how they fight the lure back to their Christian heritage.
Hisalone,
I think you need to rethink your strategy . You appear to be making a ministry of bashing Catholics on this forum. This forum provides us with a wonderful tool called “Ignore Hisalone”. And you actually think you’re effective in bringing your hate message against Christ’s Church while claiming to be part of Christ’s Church? Hmmm. A nation divided against itself comes to mind. I’ll have to think about that for a while. Seems a bit unstable to me, don’t you think… manybe contradictory? Don’t know. But nobody appreciates your message of hate that you bring here. I know that I don’t.
 
hello my friend. this video is just one of the problems i have with the way many protestants worship now days… and a few Catholic parishes i might add. they have taken down the cross, and exchanged it for a big screen t.v. instead of listening to the still small voice of the Holy Spirit, they have bought into carefully choreographed emotionallism. this is sad. as far as kneeling before statues, i cannot kneel. my knees are bad. but if a protestant pastor kneels with bible in hand or lifts it up over his head is he worshiping his bible? i do not know. but lets not forget. when the people of israel sinned, and God sent poisonous serpents into their camp, what was the remedy? God had moses fashion a pole, with a serpent on top. so that anyone who would look at it would be healed. was this idolotry? when the israelites crossed into the promised land. the ark of the covenant went before them. where all of them could see it. and the waters were parted. was this idolotry? not to mention all the vessles and tools used in Jewish temple worship, that were ordained of God. we do not worship the saints or Mary. we ask for their intercession. no different than if i would ask you to pray for me. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. peace 🙂
To Benedict and Hisalone

It’s a thin line between idolatory, intercession and use of icons isn’t it! I certainly agree, there is a level where you can suggest that there is no difference between intercessing with Mary or intercessing with a friend. I think you could even get bogged down in the nitty gritty literals… is intercessing through or with? Anyway, this isn’t my point as such… but I feel it necessary to just raise the fact that even protestants pray with icons. Hisalone may say that we don’t pray “to” Mary etc., but I have an icon of her holding the Christ child on my dining table and I pray as I eat. It’s really dangerous just to dismiss Mary and the saints: they walked with Christ, they have something to teach us. They are with us as we walk towards new life. I don’t pray to her, but I do see her as a window towards Christ.

In defence though, Benedict… I do create those mutimedia presentations and so on for my Anglican church: it depends on what you are doing with it. I always think very carefully about the theology behind the images I use etc., and I certainly don’t use them as a substitute for the cross. It’s important to keep up with the times (possibly more so in the Church of England than the RC church in England), and refashion the approach to the gospel (not the gospel itself) so that it can be in touch with modernity. After all, Jesus was contextual to his time. I don’t think David would be playing a harp nowadays - maybe an electric guitar? Also, the Spirit moves everywhere. Yes, even where there is that big screen tv. God is omnipresent and omnipotent. Noone, nothing and nowhere is out of His reach.

Blessings All,

x
 
To Benedict and Hisalone

It’s a thin line between idolatory, intercession and use of icons isn’t it! I certainly agree, there is a level where you can suggest that there is no difference between intercessing with Mary or intercessing with a friend. I think you could even get bogged down in the nitty gritty literals… is intercessing through or with? Anyway, this isn’t my point as such… but I feel it necessary to just raise the fact that even protestants pray with icons. Hisalone may say that we don’t pray “to” Mary etc., but I have an icon of her holding the Christ child on my dining table and I pray as I eat. It’s really dangerous just to dismiss Mary and the saints: they walked with Christ, they have something to teach us. They are with us as we walk towards new life. I don’t pray to her, but I do see her as a window towards Christ.

In defence though, Benedict… I do create those mutimedia presentations and so on for my Anglican church: it depends on what you are doing with it. I always think very carefully about the theology behind the images I use etc., and I certainly don’t use them as a substitute for the cross. It’s important to keep up with the times (possibly more so in the Church of England than the RC church in England), and refashion the approach to the gospel (not the gospel itself) so that it can be in touch with modernity. After all, Jesus was contextual to his time. I don’t think David would be playing a harp nowadays - maybe an electric guitar? Also, the Spirit moves everywhere. Yes, even where there is that big screen tv. God is omnipresent and omnipotent. Noone, nothing and nowhere is out of His reach.

Blessings All,

x
you are so right rita. forgive me. i just have a real love for the “older” more traditional way of doing things. i play guitar. i play heavy metal specifically. but when i enter a Church the last thing i want ot hear is a guitar. i really want to get away from myself, and everything that is outside. its just a strong personal taste. i have spiritual brothers and sisters who are in their 70s and 80s that are really into the more contemporary forms of worship, and they are Catholic. nothing wrong in and of itself i guess. just not my cup of tea. actually had to “shop” around, until i found a more traditional approach. no offence intended.my parents are Christian reformed, they used to have a beautiful cross on the wall behind the pulpit. no more. its sad. its been relegated to a tiny banner off to the side. i love how even jimmy swaggert is still preaching the way of the Cross, and not getting into so many fads of many congregations. i may disagree with him on certain parts of his theology, but that is not one of them. and you my friend are not a protestant. i am hoping that in our lifetime we will be able to take the Eucharist together. i love the Anglican/Episcopalian Church. yours and mine are only seperated by a slight degree. Peace to you and all the house hold of faith. the statue of Mary is wonderful. i also have lutheran friends that love the Blessed Mother. 🙂
 
Many answers herein have proved my point that some non-Catholics (but not all) are merely using this Catholic site for their own personal agenda, and should really get their own site.

There are also a few who have listed themselves as Catholic who seem a bit dubious in listing themselves as Catholic.

Non-Catholics who are honestly seeking more information about the Catholic Faith are most welcome.
Can we be honest with ourselves? Many catholics think protestants lack. These catholics try to ‘prostulize’ protestants that come to CAF.

There are quite a number of ex-evangelical catholics at CAF that say they tried to ‘evangelize’ catholics then they became catholic.

So, what’s the difference especially here on the part of the forum called ‘Non-catholic religions’?​

IMO, there are catholics and protestants that believe they are Christians but have NO clue who Jesus really is. Should they be or should the not be ‘evangelized’ not a church but to Jesus? Then there are non-Christians; should they or should they not be ‘evangelized’ to Jesus?
 
Can we be honest with ourselves? Many catholics think protestants lack. These catholics try to ‘prostulize’ protestants that come to CAF.

There are quite a number of ex-evangelical catholics at CAF that say they tried to ‘evangelize’ catholics then they became catholic.

So, what’s the difference especially here on the part of the forum called ‘Non-catholic religions’?​

IMO, there are catholics and protestants that believe they are Christians but have NO clue who Jesus really is. Should they be or should the not be ‘evangelized’ not a church but to Jesus? Then there are non-Christians; should they or should they not be ‘evangelized’ to Jesus?
hi dokimas. glad you chimed in. ive missed you. this is where we will disagree of course. there is no seperation of Jesus and His Church. that would be seperating Jesus from His Bride. and that my friend is not possible. yes they should be evangelized to Jesus and His Church. peace 🙂
 
hi dokimas. glad you chimed in. ive missed you. this is where we will disagree of course. there is no seperation of Jesus and His Church. that would be seperating Jesus from His Bride. and that my friend is not possible. yes they should be evangelized to Jesus and His Church. peace 🙂
Thank you.

Needed a break not to metion 3 major projects going on for our house.​

I agree there is NO separation of Jesus and His church, however we come to Jesus, not His church. Jesus makes us part of His church. The real question is ‘what is His church?’ That’s were we’ll disagree. I say it is NOT may church (the specific church or denom I go to), it’s not one of the 40,000 protestant denoms nor is it the CC.

Jesus and His Bride are different. Jesus is perfect in EVERY way possible. Jesus makes His Bride perfect because we need to be made perfect by the Blood of Jesus in the New Covenant.
 
I’d like to remind my Catholic and Protestant brethren that “Ex Catholics” make the absolute most vehement “Anti-Catholics”. It’s how they fight the lure back to their Christian heritage.
Former LDS make the best case against the Mormons.
Former JW make the best against JWs.
Former Muslims know best the fallacies of Islam.
 
IMHO, many Protestants engage in Scriptural anarchy. “The Bible says this because I say it says this”. Without a controlling authority interpreting the Bible it becomes less a book of learning and more a book of argument. Just my thoughts anyway.🤷
 
hello my friend. this video is just one of the problems i have with the way many protestants worship now days… and a few Catholic parishes i might add. they have taken down the cross, and exchanged it for a big screen t.v. instead of listening to the still small voice of the Holy Spirit, they have bought into carefully choreographed emotionallism.
It is interesting that you noticed the choreography and not the reverence and the true spirit of worship in which not only the musicians the dancers but those in attendance .
this is sad. as far as kneeling before statues, i cannot kneel. my knees are bad. but if a protestant pastor kneels with bible in hand or lifts it up over his head is he worshiping his bible?
i do not know. but lets not forget. when the people of israel sinned, and God sent poisonous serpents into their camp, what was the remedy? God had moses fashion a pole, with a serpent on top. so that anyone who would look at it would be healed. was this idolotry? when the israelites crossed into the promised land. the ark of the covenant went before them. where all of them could see it. and the waters were parted. was this idolotry?
God instructed that a serpent be constructed to be placed on a pole as a shadow/ a forerunner to Christ on the cross. God has never instructed statues of saints to be constructed.Rather than “allow” these would it not be best to instruct on how to hear the still small voice of God?
not to mention all the vessles and tools used in Jewish temple worship, that were ordained of God. we do not worship the saints or Mary. we ask for their intercession. no different than if i would ask you to pray for me. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. When asked how to pray Jesus didnt say ask David or ask Abraham. It is because of Jesus we have complete access to the Fatherpeace 🙂
 
Hisalone,
I think you need to rethink your strategy . You appear to be making a ministry of bashing Catholics on this forum. This forum provides us with a wonderful tool called “Ignore Hisalone”. And you actually think you’re effective in bringing your hate message against Christ’s Church while claiming to be part of Christ’s Church? Hmmm. A nation divided against itself comes to mind. I’ll have to think about that for a while. Seems a bit unstable to me, don’t you think… manybe contradictory? Don’t know. But nobody appreciates your message of hate that you bring here. I know that I don’t.
I came here on this thread to answer the OP question. I engage lots of folks at busy bus stops in a large Metropolitan city. I always go up to them and say Do you know that God loves you? This starts a conversation about God. I have been told by some after just this initial question that “IM Catholic I dont want to talk to you” Not Im Christian or not I love God but they are Catholic. My approach in the world is to bring people to the love of God no matter where they may be in their approach. There are many Catholics that I see who have a relationship with an institutionalized church and have little or no relationship with God. I can add that there are many Protestants who are “religious” but dont know God. This is a problem in this country today. My message is not of hate, it is to say that God wants you to know Him to love Him and to serve HIm and it is best to do that by surrendering to Him and doing it His way.
 
IMHO, many Protestants engage in Scriptural anarchy. “The Bible says this because I say it says this”. Without a controlling authority interpreting the Bible it becomes less a book of learning and more a book of argument. Just my thoughts anyway.🤷
Let’s be honest: don’t we all, including the CC imply this? OF COURSE!!! You believe what the CC has always taught and it teaches that it is impossible for it to be wrong because Jesus keeps if correct. Read what catholic apologists say … listen to what they say. There is little difference. BE HONEST.
 
IMO, there are catholics and protestants that believe they are Christians but have NO clue who Jesus really is. Should they be or should the not be ‘evangelized’ not a church but to Jesus? Then there are non-Christians; should they or should they not be ‘evangelized’ to Jesus?
Could not agree more
 
Let’s be honest: don’t we all, including the CC imply this? OF COURSE!!! You believe what the CC has always taught and it teaches that it is impossible for it to be wrong because Jesus keeps if correct. Read what catholic apologists say … listen to what they say. There is little difference. BE HONEST.
There is a great deal of difference. The Catholic Church offers one consistant teaching. Individual interpretation offers millions of different teachings. What does BE HONEST mean.
 
There is a great deal of difference. The Catholic Church offers one consistant teaching. Individual interpretation offers millions of different teachings. What does BE HONEST mean.
You are assuming the CC it 100% accurate. I admit I am not always accurate.

Tell me please, which is the correct CC understanding: it is sinful to eat meat on Fridays vs it is no longer sin to eat meat on Fridays? Which catholics represent the correct teachings of God: charismatic catholics or non-charismatic catholics?​

We are brothers and sisters in Christ NOT because of the church we belong to but because we’ve been adopted into the Family of God through the Blood of Jesus.
 
You are assuming the CC it 100% accurate. I admit I am not always accurate.

Tell me please, which is the correct CC understanding: it is sinful to eat meat on Fridays vs it is no longer sin to eat meat on Fridays? Which catholics represent the correct teachings of God: charismatic catholics or non-charismatic catholics?​

We are brothers and sisters in Christ NOT because of the church we belong to but because we’ve been adopted into the Family of God through the Blood of Jesus.
Of course I assume the Catholic Church is 100% accurate. It was founded by Christ to insure that I COULD find accurate teaching and not have to rely on my faulty human intelligence.

Niether is sinful, it is sinful to disobey the authority that Christ instituted.

It’s not an either/or but a both/and.

WE ARE brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t think the Church thinks you are wrong but that you don’t have the whole story. At least, thats my take on the subject.
 
Of course I assume the Catholic Church is 100% accurate. It was founded by Christ to insure that I COULD find accurate teaching and not have to rely on my faulty human intelligence.

Niether is sinful, it is sinful to disobey the authority that Christ instituted.

It’s not an either/or but a both/and.

WE ARE brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t think the Church thinks you are wrong but that you don’t have the whole story. At least, thats my take on the subject.
The CC used to teach eating meat on Friday was sinful. At least catholic friends of mine told me so.

You must assume that today’s CC is just like the one back in the 4th century.​

BTW, I became a Christian without the CC. I understood Jesus is God in human Flesh. I understood He died in my place paying for my sins and paying the penalty for my sins. I understood Jesus was raised from the dead. All this without the CC but NOT without the Holy Spirit speaking to my heart. (That’s not to say that God did not use the CC in history. I’m sure He did. However, that’s a different story. God uses as He wills and His own way.)
 
You are assuming the CC it 100% accurate. I admit I am not always accurate.
I’m not always accurate either, but I trust the Church’s teachings.

Tell me please, which is the correct CC understanding: it is sinful to eat meat on Fridays vs it is no longer sin to eat meat on Fridays? Well, first of all this is a discipline, not a dogma or doctrine. Disciplines can change and what’s more, they can change based on the pastoral teaching of the individual bishops. Suppose Bishop X has a large flock most of whom are vegans or vegetarians; Bishop Y has a large flock most of whom are heavy steak eaters. If Bishop X says, “abstain from meat on all Fridays for a penance” it would be NO PENANCE for most of his flock who don’t eat meat anyway. Whereas for Bishop Y, for most of his flock it would be a penance for his meat-loving people to abstain.

It was never actually the ‘eating meat’ part that was sinful. Heck, if eating meat was a sin, we wouldn’t abstain ONLY ON FRIDAYS, would we? No, the thing was, **bishops had the responsibilities to help their flock to choose ways in which to grow closer to God. What does Scripture tell us to do to follow God? I believe that three core principles mentioned several times are “Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving.” We hope that Catholics are always praying (and in fact, we have ‘indulgences’ for reading Scripture and lots of scripture available. But many people do not read well, especially the young and the poor, so making a ‘set amount’ of reading would be difficult. As for almsgiving, we hope people do that too, but some people are very rich and others very poor, so making a ‘set amount’ of money to donate would be difficult. That leaves fasting. Well, until we had a great ‘jump’ in the ‘vegetarian’ group, the food in the Western World which most people craved was MEAT. And so, giving up meat on ONE day a week was a real sacrifice, whether you were young or old, rich or poor. And again, it is the issue of obedience here at stake. Catholics were not punished because they ‘ate meat’ (which they could eat with impunity any other day of the week) but because they DISOBEYED THE BISHOP’S PASTORAL JUDGMENT. Remember, Christ told His apostles “What you hold bound, is held bound”. . .meaning that what bishops ask is NOT to be deliberately disobyed. **Which catholics represent the correct teachings of God: charismatic catholics or non-charismatic catholics? Excuse me? Say, sugar, which Anglicans represent the ‘correct teachings of God’ --High Church or Low Church? I think you’d say BOTH. . .why do you try to erect a fence between charismatic and noncharismatic Catholics? They don’t teach DIFFERENT TRUTHS, they teach different ways of understanding, none of which CONTRADICT truth in so far as they conform to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Individual people may self-identify as one or the other and have incorrect understandings; doesnt’ mean that their Faith is wrong, only their personal understanding.​

We are brothers and sisters in Christ NOT because of the church we belong to but because we’ve been adopted into the Family of God through the Blood of Jesus.
Why put it as an 'either/or? The Family of God is of ONE Church and we know that from Scripture. Insofar as those who are true Christians (and yes I believe Protestants and Orthodox are both true Christians) they are Christians not because they have implicitly or explicitly ‘rejected Rome’ yet ‘retain’ bits and pieces that their Church has ‘accepted’, but they are Christians because they ‘cling to’ the bits of Rome that they have NOT rejected. Kind of like people who are clinging to a life raft being lifted onto a boat --they aren’t yet in the boat themselves but they are heading there. The life raft is ‘apart’ from the actual boat yet it ‘belongs to’ the boat.
 
The CC used to teach eating meat on Friday was sinful. At least catholic friends of mine told me so.
So you’re going by hearsay evidence?

Suppose Protestant friends of mine (we’ll call them UCC because my best friend actually used to be one) told me that the UCC used to teach that dancing was sinful. And card playing.

Now, I can go to any library (or to the internet) and read all about the UCC. And lo and behold, I find out that they did NOT use to teach that dancing and card playing was sinful. (that was the Methodists).

SO my Protestant friends were wrong. Perhaps they had a pastor way back when with Methodist ‘leanings’ who told them to beware of dancing. Perhaps they read a book once and got confused. Doesn’t matter–they were wrong, and if I just accepted their say-so, I’d be wrong. And if I went out into cyberworld and told everybody that my Protestant friends from the UCC told me that the UCC used to teach that dancing and card playing were sinful, I’d be perpetuating a wrong ‘view’ of the UCC, wouldn’t I?
You must assume that today’s CC is just like the one back in the 4th century.

Yes. Pardon me while I take off my chiton, go out into the marble foyer, and clap my hands for the slaves to peel me some grapes.

Heck, I don’t even expect the Catholic Church of today to look like the 19th century one if it comes to ‘externals’. I’m not wearing hoop skirts or bustles. In instead of having to fast for the Eucharist from midnight on, it’s only a 1 hour fast. But we still fast for the Eucharist, don’t we?

The priest isn’t standing there with a Irish brogue --in fact, he might be from Africa these days. But he’s still there.

The children aren’t wearing uniforms and being taught by habited nuns as a matter of course the way I was in the 1960s. But there are still Catholic Churches, there are now even public schools that wear uniforms, and there are teaching nuns as well as teaching laity. And they’re still teaching Catholic teaching, even if they are using a newer catechism than the Baltimore Catechism of my youth.

And while Don Manuel in 1820s Mexico, or Mme. Isabeau in 1600s France, or Hob the Miller in 1200 England may not have heard the actual words “Immaculate Conception”, they knew, as authentic Catholic teaching, that Mary was without sin, full of grace, from the beginning. It was only when outside forces in the 19th century starting teaching otherwise (mainly Protestant forces) that Mary was a sinful critter, that the Church actually had to come out and make it ‘clear’ through ‘official’ doctrinal language. . .much as in the 4th century (obviously a favorite time of yours) the Creed was written in response to those who were teaching ‘against’ some or all of its truths.​

BTW, I became a Christian without the CC. I understood Jesus is God in human Flesh. I understood He died in my place paying for my sins and paying the penalty for my sins. I understood Jesus was raised from the dead. All this without the CC but NOT without the Holy Spirit speaking to my heart. (That’s not to say that God did not use the CC in history. I’m sure He did. However, that’s a different story. God uses as He wills and His own way.)
 
Posted by: Tantum

Originally Posted by Dokimas​

The CC used to teach eating meat on Friday was sinful. At least catholic friends of mine told me so.
So you’re going by hearsay evidence?
Suppose Protestant friends of mine (we’ll call them UCC because my best friend actually used to be one) told me that the UCC used to teach that dancing was sinful. And card playing.
Now, I can go to any library (or to the internet) and read all about the UCC. And lo and behold, I find out that they did NOT use to teach that dancing and card playing was sinful. (that was the Methodists).
SO my Protestant friends were wrong. Perhaps they had a pastor way back when with Methodist ‘leanings’ who told them to beware of dancing. Perhaps they read a book once and got confused. Doesn’t matter–they were wrong, and if I just accepted their say-so, I’d be wrong. And if I went out into cyberworld and told everybody that my Protestant friends from the UCC told me that the UCC used to teach that dancing and card playing were sinful, I’d be perpetuating a wrong ‘view’ of the UCC, wouldn’t I?
You must assume that today’s CC is just like the one back in the 4th century.
Yes. Pardon me while I take off my chiton, go out into the marble foyer, and clap my hands for the slaves to peel me some grapes.
Heck, I don’t even expect the Catholic Church of today to look like the 19th century one if it comes to ‘externals’. I’m not wearing hoop skirts or bustles. In instead of having to fast for the Eucharist from midnight on, it’s only a 1 hour fast. But we still fast for the Eucharist, don’t we?
The priest isn’t standing there with a Irish brogue --in fact, he might be from Africa these days. But he’s still there.
The children aren’t wearing uniforms and being taught by habited nuns as a matter of course the way I was in the 1960s. But there are still Catholic Churches, there are now even public schools that wear uniforms, and there are teaching nuns as well as teaching laity. And they’re still teaching Catholic teaching, even if they are using a newer catechism than the Baltimore Catechism of my youth.

And while Don Manuel in 1820s Mexico, or Mme. Isabeau in 1600s France, or Hob the Miller in 1200 England may not have heard the actual words “Immaculate Conception”, they knew, as authentic Catholic teaching, that Mary was without sin, full of grace, from the beginning. It was only when outside forces in the 19th century starting teaching otherwise (mainly Protestant forces) that Mary was a sinful critter, that the Church actually had to come out and make it ‘clear’ through ‘official’ doctrinal language. . .much as in the 4th century (obviously a favorite time of yours) the Creed was written in response to those who were teaching ‘against’ some or all of its truths.​

BTW, I became a Christian without the CC. I understood Jesus is God in human Flesh. I understood He died in my place paying for my sins and paying the penalty for my sins. I understood Jesus was raised from the dead. All this without the CC but NOT without the Holy Spirit speaking to my heart. (That’s not to say that God did not use the CC in history. I’m sure He did. However, that’s a different story. God uses as He wills and His own way.)

Are you saying the CC didn’t teach it was sin to eat meat on Fridays back in the 1960’s and before?​

With your question about ‘hearsay’ are you telling me to ignore your posts when you tell us what the CC teaches (or when you tell us anything about anything)?​

You seem to be saying the CC has evolved over the last 1500 yrs or so?. If so, they what’s all this chatter from catholics that say the CC has been consistently the same for 2000 yrs? And am I supposed to understand you point of view here as hearsay?
 
The CC used to teach eating meat on Friday was sinful. At least catholic friends of mine told me so.

You must assume that today’s CC is just like the one back in the 4th century.​

BTW, I became a Christian without the CC. I understood Jesus is God in human Flesh. I understood He died in my place paying for my sins and paying the penalty for my sins. I understood Jesus was raised from the dead. All this without the CC but NOT without the Holy Spirit speaking to my heart. (That’s not to say that God did not use the CC in history. I’m sure He did. However, that’s a different story. God uses as He wills and His own way.)
I’m no expert on the subject, however, I will try to explain. In the old days, meat was the food of choice. everyone who had it ate meat. In this, giving it up was considered a great sacrifice. Nowadays with Red Lobster, Captain D’s, Long John Silvers, and vegetarian diets. Giving up meat is not such a great sacrifice. In this day and age, we Catholics are called to give up something as great as that of our ancestors. You see it isn’t the meat so much as the idea of giving up something you enjoy so as to honor God.

I wouldn’t even consider to question the method God use to influence your life and I’m very happy that you have found Christ in your life. I’m sure that when we both stand before God that I will have more to answer for than you, but think about this. Two people read a book, (not the bible).😃 One reads the entire book, word for word,cover to cover. The other reads the book but skips a paragraph here and there. They both know what the book is about but which one knows the book better. As Catholics, we believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. I believe this because without any kind of teaching authority, who could say what the truth was. We might have all ended up worshiping trees like my ancestors in Germany. Surely, Jesus left us some institution that would keep us from wandering off on our own. I believe that you know the Truth as God has shown it to us, I just believe that Jesus left us the Catholic Church, free from error, with the absolute fullness of truth, so that our feeble minds can comprehend Him as best we can without worry that on our own we might get the message totally wrong. Sorry for the rambling and I’m sure it doesn’t make much sense but it’s the best I can do. :o
 
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