A question for some Protestants who feel it is necessary to proselytize Catholics

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Jesus would not be drawn into questions which do not address the issue, He would refuse to give direct answers to questions which were stated in such a way that the truth could not be revealed by giving a direct answer. Your questions are such. The Catholic paradigm is so far off it resembles that of the the OT scribes and pharasees that Jesus faced.
If you knew the right questions to ask we could have a discussion.
Oh, so rather than answer the questions you compare me to Jesus (unfavorably of course).

And then you accuse me and my ‘Catholic paradigm’ of being wrong (but of course can supply no specific).

And you don’t want to answer my question because it isn’t ‘right’? That means, that doesn’t fit into the category of “questions Hisalone can answer?”

IOW, your whole premise is shot down because you yourself when shown that two groups have opposite interpretations each said to be of the Holy Spirit, **cannot tell me which of the two is correct. **

I’m not asking anything all that difficult. I’m asking which teaching is correct. Surely you can tell me something that the Holy Spirit teaches, can’t you? Surely one of these is correct and one is not, and how HARD is it for you to simply tell me what the Spirit teaches?

You yourself obviously believe one or the other of the teachings. In doing so, you obviously feel that the Spirit has ‘revealed a truth’ to you.

**
Why can’t you tell me what the Spirit reveals to you? **
 
As I pointed out scripture is not silent on embryonic stem cell research.
Scripture is as clear about embryonic stem cell research as it is on the Trinity, the hypostatic union, purgatory, the perpetual virginity of Mary…

Those words are not in Scripture, but if a Protestant will accept that they’re implied in there I’ll accept that one can glean from Scripture alone what God says about embryonic stem cell research.

Note: Since the poster I’m responding to is now banned, I am simply responding for the benefit of Protestant lurkers!
 
Scripture is as clear about embryonic stem cell research as it is on the Trinity, the hypostatic union, purgatory, the perpetual virginity of Mary…

Those words are not in Scripture, but if a Protestant will accept that they’re implied in there I’ll accept that one can glean from Scripture alone what God says about embryonic stem cell research.

Note: Since the poster I’m responding to is now banned, I am simply responding for the benefit of Protestant lurkers!
I am not protestant, and I agree with you, but can I count?

FSC
 
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Dearest Christian Friend,
I’ve just spent well over an hour on this thread alone and the number of times I saw scripture actually quoted was shockingly low by either side.
The question of the thread is not a scriptural question. Besides, since the Bible was produced by, for, and about Catholics, it is not likely that anything will be found in there to support the notion that Catholics need to be evangelized. 🤷
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 There is no state secret regarding the major areas where Catholics and Protestants part ways.  Most everyone knows what they are and certainly, given the fact that the majority of members here are Catholic (in one form or another), it's a given.  For the sake of brevity, I'll concede that you have listed them fairly comprehensively.
Are those differences the basis for the need to evangelize?
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Let's start with your first claim:
At the risk of being banned from this site for telling the truth, let’s see if this claim really holds up… shall we?
People dont’ get banned from here for having differing numerical values in their statistics.
I don’t know how authoritative it actually is, only that Ray and Staples both quoted it. I’ve also seen it myself and it’s not something one would carry around in a backpack. Since Ray and Staples both quoted it, I can only conclude that they found it authoritative.

On page 10 of the source it reads:

GLOBAL CHRISTIANITY
had
26,350 33,820 denominations/paradenominations
with
1,391,020 3,445,000 congregations/churches
composed of
1,130 1,888 million affiliated Christians

…So tell me again, how many denominations are there out there?
Personally, I think it is irrelevant. Jesus founded one Church, and the Apostles taught “ONE FAITH”. whether it is two, two dozen, or two thousand is not relevant.
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Do you have any proof that they predominantly arose from anything that can be attributed to Sola Scriptura?
Yes.Aside from the fact that most of them claim this, there is also external evidence.
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Is it fair to make this accusation against Protestants,
Yes.
if Catholics have 242 of their own denominations? Is the Magesterium responsible for that? It would seem so, if we want to apply to Catholicism, what we apply to Protestantism.
I agree. There are no denomonations in Catholicism. There are no differences inn doctrine. All the various Rites have the same doctdrine.
It sure appears to me that there is something very wrong with making a blanket statement about there being over 40.000 different kinds of Protestants.
I agree. However, the fact remains that our separated brethren are grossly fragmented with a plethora of differences in doctrine and practice, and they can all justify themselves by “the bible alone”.
*** I think we’d both agree that we know our Redeemer Lives!***

Forever in His Amazing Grace…
Yes, we have agreeement about a great many fundamental doctrines. To the extent that we are in agreement, our separated brethren have retained the Catholic teachings. To the extent that we do not, they have departed from what the Apostels believed and taught.
 
Absolutely was a typing error. It should have read “wouldnt”.

OK, here goes. The question was not what is a “norm” in society, it was about what is objectively moral.
But it is important in all ethics to be aware and familiar with the context you are concerned with… therefore we must always grapple with what the social norm is deemed to be.

Saying that we should provide contraception is the same as saying we should provide bulletproof vests: both are “protection” against immoral acts.
I never made any comment about actually “providing” contraception; my comment was that I do not believe contraception can be deemed as something damaging or evil in its own right.

For one you are protecting against the consequences of your own immoral behavior, I assume you mean “you” in a general, non-direct way, since I am celibate for the other you are defending against the immoral behavior of someone else. Either way, both protect against immorality.

I am not defending an immoral behaviour, but the individuals choice. Not everyone thinks pre-marital sex is immoral because sadly many people are starved from the concept of true love.

The legality of a thing does not matter.
Of course it does. After all, our morality must take into account both God’s laws and the laws of the land we live in.

There is an ocean of difference between freedom and license. We have the freedom to do anything under the sun, but we do not have the license. To advocate for such things as free contraception, condom handouts in schools, free ABC Pills, etc, is to advocate for a type of licentiousness which leads to the death of the soul.
I don’t advocate for the above, so please don’t confuse this. Please expand on your concept of the death of the soul as a result of this though - I do not believe that God would turn his back on any young person who used contraception. God has the power to renew and refashion our souls, and He does this graciously and continually. How else can a sinner come to God, if His or Her sins are not wiped clean and their souls were not given new life in abundance? God knows we all fail. He knows that immorality will ALWAYS be rife, but as Christians we also know that although it damages and corrupts our world it is never bigger than God Himself.

The argument of whether to contracept within marriage is a completely different issue, albeit still a morality issue.
How, out of interest?

The reason that so many people look to ABC as the cause for increased abortion, promiscuity, social evils and various other things is because the “sexual revolution” began with ABC (I know I know, not a primary cause, but that is the impression). That was not the root cause, IMHO, but it was a major contributing factor. Bishop Fulton Sheen said that one of the causes for todays social degradation was the increasingly mechanical view of individuals. We have become individuals, parts in a machine, instead of people, human beings belonging to God. When you view PEOPLE as merely parts in a machine (society, employees, neighborhoods, anything) you devalue them to the point where they are worth less than any of your own desires.
Sexual immorality has existed long into history. It is one of humanity’s vices. I do not say this to lessen its blow, but it is the truth. We can’t blame it purely on the use of contraception. Women have long been considered, in varying ways, as sex objects. The difference now is that BOTH men and women can have this view of potential partners. But moreover, we have a new generation where people view themselves as just mere parts of a machine. Look at suicide, self-harm and sexual-activity rates in young people. They are on the increase because these people do not see good-enough love in their lives. Rather than being so anti-contraceptives, it’s about time that Christianity on the whole shows these young people it is possible to be loved and feel loved without being harmed or hurt. This is possible in the amazing way of Christ, but also in the right people here on earth. Banning contraceptives does not solve the problem. Dealing with the issues of the worth of these young people makes a good step towards it.

The reason so many people have sex outside of wedlock today, again IMHO, is a selfish desire to fulfill their own wants in an incredibly hedonistic culture. The point is not to increase your loved one in Holiness, Joy, and Love any longer, but to “get off”.
Sadly this is probably largely true, but again I’d like to point towards a deeper sense of people needing to feel loved themselves in an otherwise unloving society.

Sex was created to be a unifying act requiring three people: The husband, wife, and God. Instead of that many people (especially men) make sex about one person, themselves. This is why they require contraception: They do no love their partner, they have put God out of the equation, and because of these two they need to “Protect” themselves…
I agree that sex is meant to require the three; I agree it is intended between the couple and God. But you must protect the vulnerable; even if they are being immorral. After all we are called to hate the sin but love the sinner.

Anyway, I gotta get to work.

Me too… CAF is very good at distracting me from my dissertations!

FSC
 
Yes, you are correct, if by “us” you mean those not in communion with the CC.

This clearly depicts the confusion and chaos that evolves from departing from Apostolic authority. When one says “God is the my authority” yet does not submit to the authority of His Body, the Church, one is indeed left with this paradigm: “it’s an interesting question which none of us can answer”.
I mean we all never truly know until we are with God. Full, true and perfect knowledge is impossible for humanity to attain; even if they are members of the RC church. We simply discern, listen, pray, and act in faith.

One of my favourite verses seems fitting here:

Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand; and we boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God. This hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God." (Romans 5:1,2,5-9)
How do you know what God says? Read His word.
Listen to the still quite voice.
Indeed, prayer and discernment are key.
Gee His, what if that ‘still quiet voice’ is the voice of a “Spirit” other than the Holy Spirit? I mean, Scripture tells us that the Devil can quote Scripture. . .

Or what if that ‘still quiet voice’ tells YOU something but tells ME something else?

Which of us can ‘know’ that the ‘still quiet voice’ is the Holy Spirit? Remember, the Spirit cannot contradict Himself, so if the "still quiet voice’ is saying two completely opposite things, both sayings cannot be from the SAME Spirit.

And if you want to cavil and tell me as a Catholic I’m automatically not hearing the right Spirit, what of you and a fellow Protestant who hear completely opposite teachings?

What of the Baptist who insists the Spirit says “only adults may be baptized” and the Presbyterian who hears the Spirit say, “Infants may be baptized?”

They cannot both be correct. Which has the “real Spirit”, Hisalone?
God did not reveal himself in only one way! We see that through Scripture. He chooses the specifics… if God can be found in a burning bush, and in the blessed womb of a virgin we can see stark differences just by noting this!
Jesus would not be drawn into questions which do not address the issue, He would refuse to give direct answers to questions which were stated in such a way that the truth could not be revealed by giving a direct answer. Your questions are such. The Catholic paradigm is so far off it resembles that of the the OT scribes and pharasees that Jesus faced.
If you knew the right questions to ask we could have a discussion.
I do believe that the right questions are the key to all true discussions. I aslo believe that we are in danger of falling away from God with the issues of “x is wrong, y is right.” Surely we are looking for the unifying love of God which transcends all human bickering?

I love all the folks here on CAF, but aren’t we missing something? Christ did not just die for those who acted and beleived the right doctrine and dogma… he died for ALL who believe in Him. And I believe when you stand before God, whether in this life or the next, it is impossible not to believe, and therefore impossible not to be saved.
 
Can I cause a spot of trouble here and ask…

Why do some Catholics feel it is necessary to Catholicize Protestants/Non-Catholic Christians?

I think it’s in equal balance on here really.
 
But it is important in all ethics to be aware and familiar with the context you are concerned with… therefore we must always grapple with what the social norm is deemed to be.

The law of the land is absolutely irrelevant to morality. It is legal to have an abortion in the US, but that does not make it morally acceptable. Some things are morally neutral, money for instance, contraception is not one of those. It is an ACT. ACTs almost always have moral implications, this particular act is a conscious desire to remove GOD from the equation

I am not defending an immoral behaviour, but the individuals choice.

The statement was that you are trying to defend AGAINST the immoral behavior of others rather than bringing them to a truly moral stance.

Of course it does. After all, our morality must take into account both God’s laws and the laws of the land we live in.

See above

Please expand on your concept of the death of the soul as a result of this though - I do not believe that God would turn his back on any young person who used contraception. God has the power to renew and refashion our souls, and He does this graciously and continually. How else can a sinner come to God, if His or Her sins are not wiped clean and their souls were not given new life in abundance? God knows we all fail. He knows that immorality will ALWAYS be rife, but as Christians we also know that although it damages and corrupts our world it is never bigger than God Himself.

Death as in moral death. The soul is immortal and therefore cannot suffer “death”, but only the "death of separation from God and as a last option permanent separation from God. Yes, God can renew and refresh our souls, but the conscious decision to remove him from portions of your life mean that the stain of Sin remains upon those portions of your life. There is a difference between accidentally falling into sin and the conscious decision to do something that is objectively sinful. That does not take away from our knowledge of our LOVING and FORGIVING God, but neither does it take away from our knowledge of a JUST God. A sinner can come to God on earth without being clean and begin the sanctification process which is perfected in Purgation.

How, out of interest?

Again, conscious decision to reject God’s love and Grace in the marital act. It is a couple saying “We dont trust you here. We dont have faith that you will give us what we can handle, what we need, and the assistance to perform your will”. That makes it morally unacceptable. It is also what makes contraception so popular in our de-Deified (yeah, I made that word up) culture, the fact that it removes God from one of the most intimate parts of our lives.

Sexual immorality has existed long into history. It is one of humanity’s vices. I do not say this to lessen its blow, but it is the truth. We can’t blame it purely on the use of contraception. Agreed Women have long been considered, in varying ways, as sex objects. The difference now is that BOTH men and women can have this view of potential partners. Does this make that view right? Should we accept this or “rage against the dying of the light”? But moreover, we have a new generation where people view themselves as just mere parts of a machine. Look at suicide, self-harm and sexual-activity rates in young people. They are on the increase because these people do not see good-enough love in their lives This is an opinion, but I share it… Rather than being so anti-contraceptives, it’s about time that Christianity on the whole shows these young people it is possible to be loved and feel loved without being harmed or hurt. This is possible in the amazing way of Christ, but also in the right people here on earth. Banning contraceptives does not solve the problem. Dealing with the issues of the worth of these young people makes a good step towards it.

How about we tell people that contraception is objectively sinful, but show them true Christian love? After all, they will know we are Christian by our love right? Banning contraceptives is similar, though of a different degree, to banning homicide and rape. Banning that which is sinful is never wrong. Do I believe that we should do it as a secular society? Not really. Do I think that we should all teach our children the things that are sinful and the things which are good? Emphatically YES.

Sadly this is probably largely true, but again I’d like to point towards a deeper sense of people needing to feel loved themselves in an otherwise unloving society.

So love them. There is an old song about how to love a woman that I cant recall entirely, but the chorus says “love her. Love her. Just love her”. Do this. But hate the sin of contraception. yes, love the sinner, there can be no condemnation in you towards these people, but hate the sin.

I agree that sex is meant to require the three; I agree it is intended between the couple and God. But you must protect the vulnerable; even if they are being immorral. After all we are called to hate the sin but love the sinner. Loving the sinner does not entail accepting the sin. If you know a rapist (again, drastically, incredibly, different in degree, but used only as an extreme example), you should love the man, but HATE, desperately I might add, the sin. Do NOT accept sin, do not make excuses for sin, but still love the sinner. Why not advocate for allowing God in, instead of allowing an intrinsically sinful act?
FSC
 
I love all the folks here on CAF, but aren’t we missing something? Christ did not just die for those who acted and beleived the right doctrine and dogma… he died for ALL who believe in Him. And I believe when you stand before God, whether in this life or the next, it is impossible not to believe, and therefore impossible not to be saved.
Indeed, he died for all, but not all who say "Lord Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven.
Can I cause a spot of trouble here and ask…

Why do some Catholics feel it is necessary to Catholicize Protestants/Non-Catholic Christians?

I think it’s in equal balance on here really.
lol, no trouble, just a good point. For me its less about proselytizing and more about explaining the true faith. No person can convert another person. I just intend to show the truth as far as an uneducated bumpkin can.

FSC
 
Can I cause a spot of trouble here and ask…

Why do some Catholics feel it is necessary to Catholicize Protestants/Non-Catholic Christians?

I think it’s in equal balance on here really.
PS. I mean Roman Catholic as opposed to Holy Catholic
 
Ouch that colour is difficult to read!

The law of the land is absolutely irrelevant to morality…] this particular act is a conscious desire to remove GOD from the equation
Of course it doesn’t make abortion acceptable just because it is legal; but what is ILLEGAL (ie. your example of guncrime) is generally immorral. Moreover contraception can’t always be a conscious desire to remove God, when some people are not yet aware of God’s truth. Moreover, I personally think that there must be people out there who have prayed and discerned about their use of contraception and they indeed DO include God in the equation. It is highly complex, and also highly individual.

The statement was that you are trying to defend AGAINST the immoral behavior of others rather than bringing them to a truly moral stance.
I’m not quite sure that is the way I see it. I see the behaviour of immoral sex as wrong, not the contraception itself. I do desire to see people brought to a point where they see that sex is sacred, and that love can be shown and shared in other ways, and that there is no need for sexual immorality; but I do not think that contraceptive use is outright immorral.

Death as in moral death …] That does not take away from our knowledge of our LOVING and FORGIVING God, but neither does it take away from our knowledge of a JUST God. A sinner can come to God on earth without being clean and begin the sanctification process which is perfected in Purgation.
Hmm, but it is your opinion that the contraceptive is sinful [as the Catholic Church and as an individual] The discerning contraceptive user may already have came to the conclusion that the contraceptive is not objectively sinful and therefore are they sinning? For example if I was married, and decided to use contraceptives, on the grounds that I do not believe it is sinful and I have centred upon God fully in my process of discernment, does that make me a sinner (PS. I’m neither of those… I’m thinking of being a nun, but I am asking purely on a hypothetical basis.

Again, conscious decision to reject God’s love and Grace in the marital act. …] the fact that it removes God from one of the most intimate parts of our lives.
I have read that some Catholic thought does permit use of contraception in marriage? Does this depend on personal discernment or what? And I firmly believe that when it comes down to things, God does not will something that his child does not. I firmly believe that God does not violate the heart or the mind; but works with it. For a man and a woman to say to God we just can’t have a child right now God is something which I believe God respects. After all, is it not said that God’s will is ordained before it enters our hearts. And surely that applies to both the things we do and the things which we don’t do?

How about we tell people that contraception is objectively sinful, but show them true Christian love? …] Do I believe that we should do it as a secular society? Not really. Do I think that we should all teach our children the things that are sinful and the things which are good? Emphatically YES.
Rape is another reason why I can not fully submit to the notion that contraceptives are intrinsically wrong. What about the woman who is repeatedly and systematically raped? Who sees no escape from her abuser? She is not asking for the abuse, and God is not in the situation in the same beautiful way as He may be in marriage.Can she not at least choose not to carry that child by getting contraceptives? Under the hands of her abuser she may well rear several children. And what if she is practically a child herself? Children CAN be a blessing in situations of rape, I do know this. But not for every woman.

So love them. …] yes, love the sinner, there can be no condemnation in you towards these people, but hate the sin.
I can’t possibly hate contraception if I desire people in Africa to be free from Aids and HIV. Like all science, contraception is abused. But I do not think it is wrong in itself. The way some people behave with it is what I believe is immorral. I recall in a book about Liberation Theology by Boff & Boff that one of the authors comment upon a woman with children, sat on the steps of a cathedral or a church. The babe in her arms is starving and screaming for her mothers milk, but she does not feed it. The priest tells her to give the babe some milk, in a rather abrupt way. She says she cannot but the priest continues to insist, out of concern for the welfare of the child. Wearily she gives in, unbuttons her blouse, and the babe sucks blood. Her blood gives the babe life, not her milk. She can not feed it any other way. It is true, that with God all things are possible, but we must also be mindful of the dire need our human insistance places others in. It requires the WHOLE CHURCH (irrespective of denomination) to love these people, and sometimes, for a time, the church is required to simply be along side, rather than teach, and challenge and judge. They will, if this love is true, come to you asking for your teaching, as they come closer to God through His love, both above and as an extention of our own love.
 
PS. Sorry I had to abreviate your original quotes. I was exceeding charector count!
 
Also FSC, I’ve just noticed the condoms bulletproof vest comment in your signature… did that make it there before or after your posting? LOL. I truly enjoy talking to you… I just don’t entirely agree with you. Still it would be a boring and non-discerning world if we all agreed! Infact, even more so, it would not be scriptural.
 
PS. Sorry I had to abreviate your original quotes. I was exceeding charector count!
lol, I did the same thing.
Also FSC, I’ve just noticed the condoms bulletproof vest comment in your signature… did that make it there before or after your posting? LOL. I truly enjoy talking to you… I just don’t entirely agree with you. Still it would be a boring and non-discerning world if we all agreed! Infact, even more so, it would not be scriptural.
And yes, after our conversation a while back I added it. I like the analogy despite being so extreme.

And I have thoroughly enjoyed talking to you. I will respond to your last post after I get back from lunch.

FSC
 
Ouch that colour is difficult to read!
Better?
Of course it doesn’t make abortion acceptable just because it is legal; but what is ILLEGAL (ie. your example of guncrime) is generally immorral. Moreover contraception can’t always be a conscious desire to remove God, when some people are not yet aware of God’s truth. Moreover, I personally think that there must be people out there who have prayed and discerned about their use of contraception and they indeed DO include God in the equation. It is highly complex, and also highly individual.
The fundamental principal of logic is the principle of non-contradiction. A thing is either a sin or it is not. Here I would err on the side of caution.
I’m not quite sure that is the way I see it. I see the behaviour of immoral sex as wrong, not the contraception itself. I do desire to see people brought to a point where they see that sex is sacred, and that love can be shown and shared in other ways, and that there is no need for sexual immorality; but I do not think that contraceptive use is outright immorral.
Hmm, but it is your opinion that the contraceptive is sinful [as the Catholic Church and as an individual] The discerning contraceptive user may already have came to the conclusion that the contraceptive is not objectively sinful and therefore are they sinning? For example if I was married, and decided to use contraceptives, on the grounds that I do not believe it is sinful and I have centred upon God fully in my process of discernment, does that make me a sinner (PS. I’m neither of those… I’m thinking of being a nun, but I am asking purely on a hypothetical basis.
Again, a thing is either a sin or it is not. It cannot be both. To decide that a thing which removes faith (pistes in greek, better defined as trust) in God, isacceptable is to sin. Private interpretation of Gods will can err, the Holy Catholic Church, when teaching on FAITH and MORALS only, cannot.
I have read that some Catholic thought does permit use of contraception in marriage? Does this depend on personal discernment or what? And I firmly believe that when it comes down to things, God does not will something that his child does not. I firmly believe that God does not violate the heart or the mind; but works with it. For a man and a woman to say to God we just can’t have a child right now God is something which I believe God respects. After all, is it not said that God’s will is ordained before it enters our hearts. And surely that applies to both the things we do and the things which we don’t do?
No, there are no acceptable reasons to contracept “the ends never justify the means”. As for Gods will in the matter, we see now as through a mirror (at the time this was said, almost all mirrors were cloudy) so we cannot have absolute knowledge that we are correctly interpreting the will of God without following the Magisterium.
I can’t possibly hate contraception if I desire people in Africa to be free from Aids and HIV. Like all science, contraception is abused. But I do not think it is wrong in itself. The way some people behave with it is what I believe is immorral. I recall in a book about Liberation Theology by Boff & Boff that one of the authors comment upon a woman with children, sat on the steps of a cathedral or a church. The babe in her arms is starving and screaming for her mothers milk, but she does not feed it. The priest tells her to give the babe some milk, in a rather abrupt way. She says she cannot but the priest continues to insist, out of concern for the welfare of the child. Wearily she gives in, unbuttons her blouse, and the babe sucks blood. Her blood gives the babe life, not her milk. She can not feed it any other way. It is true, that with God all things are possible, but we must also be mindful of the dire need our human insistance places others in. It requires the WHOLE CHURCH (irrespective of denomination) to love these people, and sometimes, for a time, the church is required to simply be along side, rather than teach, and challenge and judge. They will, if this love is true, come to you asking for your teaching, as they come closer to God through His love, both above and as an extention of our own love.
The aids thing is a “strawman”. Check the aids statistics in the phillipines versus malaysia (I think those are the two countries). One teaches abstinence one gives out condoms for free. Which would you presume has the higher aids rate? Also, having a child does not necessitate financial burdens. Adoption is always an option.

Just a quick runthrough as I am pressed for time.

FSC
 
Better?

The fundamental principal of logic is the principle of non-contradiction. A thing is either a sin or it is not. Here I would err on the side of caution.

Again, a thing is either a sin or it is not. It cannot be both. To decide that a thing which removes faith (pistes in greek, better defined as trust) in God, isacceptable is to sin. Private interpretation of Gods will can err, the Holy Catholic Church, when teaching on FAITH and MORALS only, cannot.

No, there are no acceptable reasons to contracept “the ends never justify the means”. As for Gods will in the matter, we see now as through a mirror (at the time this was said, almost all mirrors were cloudy) so we cannot have absolute knowledge that we are correctly interpreting the will of God without following the Magisterium. There are women on this forum that have been told that they will die if they have another child, yet they choose not to sin via contraception and instead trust in God (with NFP).

The aids thing is a “strawman”. Check the aids statistics in the phillipines versus malaysia (I think those are the two countries). One teaches abstinence one gives out condoms for free. Which would you presume has the higher aids rate? Also, having a child does not necessitate financial burdens. Adoption is always an option.

Just a quick runthrough as I am pressed for time.

FSC
repost for clarity (edited out that hideous green) and added some things. Check the last post for what Rita said.
 
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I’ll repeat one more time. I have no need to proselytize to Catholics because I don’t think you need to be rescued from anything. While I may disagree with some of your doctrine, I don’t think you are in danger of hell as long as you truly love Jesus.

I wish you peace.
Thank you for your precise, charitable, and honest response. :signofcross:
 
PS. I mean Roman Catholic as opposed to Holy Catholic
The Roman Rite is only one of the 23 Rites of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. It is no less Holy than the rest, and it is certainly NOT “opposed”.
 
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