A Reconciliation with the Followers of Archbishop Lefebvre?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chellow
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Chellow

Guest
LOS ANGELES (Catholic Online) - Reports circulated throughout Europe that the followers of Archbishop Lefebvre have been offered a possible “personal prelature” by the Holy See if they accept the five conditions which were set forth for their return to full communionwith Rome.

The following report by Andrea Tornielli appeared in the Italian Newspaper, Il Giornale:

"The Ultimatum of the Vatican to Lefebvre’s rebels: Peace, if you accept the Council

In the relations between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians the countdown has begun: by this 28 June, the Fraternity of St. Pius X, founded by the French Archbishop who would not suffer the post-conciliar liturgical reform, will in fact have to decide whether to accept the five conditions proposed by the Vatican in order to reenter into full communion with Rome. …read more
 
By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS (Reuters) - The leader of a breakaway traditionalist Catholic group has rejected a Vatican offer to rejoin Rome, accusing Pope Benedict of trying to silence dissenting voices.

Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) that broke with Rome 20 years ago, said conditions set by the Vatican amounted to muzzling the traditionalists who claim to be the only true Catholics since Church reforms in the 1960s.

Keen to end this schism, Benedict agreed last year to their demand to restore the old Latin Mass. But he insists they must accept the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) before he can lift excommunication decrees against them.

“Rome is telling us, okay, we are ready to lift the excommunications, but you cannot continue this way,” Fellay said in a sermon last Friday now posted as an audio file on the U.S.-based Voice of Catholic Radio website. .…Read more
 
The leader of a breakaway traditionalist Catholic group has rejected a Vatican offer to rejoin Rome, accusing Pope Benedict of trying to silence dissenting voices.
This is very sad news. I pray that some of SSPX adherents will not follow Fellay’s lead.
 
B16 is as traditional as they come, if SSPX can’t reconcile with him at the helm…I fear they never will.
 
Fr. Z’s blog is predicting this isn’t a definitive answer to the offer:
This story tries to leave you the impression that the whole thing is over, Fellay said “No”, and that’s that.
I wonder. I don’t think so.
Keep praying. We haven’t gotten to the end of the month yet.
 
It’s sad that so many people with good intentions have left the Catholic Church to follow the leaders of SSPX. While they are to be commended for their desire to keep the liturgy reverent, they have placed greater importance to keeping the liturgy as it was, rather than being obedient to the Pope and Magisterium. The Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass should not be viewed as being in competition with each other. Rather, both are beautiful acts of worship and each one has different qualities that help the faithful meet God. Before we can ever be united with our Orthodox and Protestant brethren, we Catholics must first become united.
 
The SSPX do NOT have a pope. That condition in itself creates a void between them and the Holy Spirit via the Vicar of Christ.
 
From the SSPX home page: (sspx.org/)

"The Society of St. Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope Benedict XVI, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ.

The priests of the SSPX pray for the intentions of the Holy Father and the welfare of the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate."
 
All the prayers and devotedness to the pope is meaningless if they are excommunicated.
 
The “Old Catholics” did not even accept the “Hammer of Heretics”, Pope Pius X (one who, like Pope Pius 12th, should have been called “the Great” by now. It kind of gets you objectified to contemplate upon that when you break away–that there are those who see you as like the N.O. of their time as believers in a “false” doctrine". People foul things up. You can’t blame the Church, the papacy or Holy Orders on mismanagement and sometimes outright scandalous behavior by some. St. Francis did not create a SSPX-type organization in his day, as a corrupted priest was brought before him by angry people (and he wasn’t the first spiritually-sick priest then), nor did anyone when quickie Latin Masses were being said shortly before V2 (a lame toss back by N.O.ers when we complain about N.O. abuses, I might add), and so it is not right to have one because of Vatican 2.

Together, we who prefer the TLM can truly renew the Church (as the N.O. ones talk about how much they love V2, the N.O. and the ideas of the Church Fathers while allowing liturgical abuses and psychospiritually disasterous art and music, as well as liberal and outright heretical teachings in schools to go on under even conservative bishops’ noses and there’s little hope they’ll care enough to do what’s necessary to end all that by using their authority or jurisprudence, if necessary) and give people the best the Faith has to offer and noone said we had to pay tribute to Vatican 2, the N.O. new decate or new Catechism (as if most lost Boomers, who raised future libertines, cared by then). Without jurisdiction, you cannot have certain sacraments, even if you were in the right all along so that is not helping the Church either. We in the TLM communities need to show a good example. The SSPX is capable of that as one made The Rosary Album and others made “Dedicated Decades” without mention of their misgivings about Vatican 2, the N.O. (which was a nice idea that only materialized in Rome, EWTN, religious communities without a preaching charism or assignments and a handful of parishes–mostly where it was not felt needed, despite it not working for 90% of all Catholics, to entertain the people’s sense appetites with pop music to keep them coming) or whatever.
The SSPX is in a countdown regarding the time they have left as an organization as their bishops will die out some day and then, the priests. You don’t need to like what was done in the 60s and afterwards, just accept it was done and., like most parishes, you can effectively ignore the fact that any of it even happened except you had freedom to do your own thing.

I can guarantee you, the FSSP and the Society of Christ the King Sovereign Priest hasn’t taken the Church for granted after being given its liberties. It could practically be doing subversive things like liberation theologists, also. It, thus, could be a very renewing force with the return of dissident groups. Don’t be so critical and do your thing in full communion, SSPX priests and religious, and the fruits will become evident and we obedient traditionalists could show the world the Church is what we say we believe it to be by offering a 100% reverent Mass in more places than I listed above. More demons and their helpers on Earth get its potential influence if its leaders got it into better shape by using common sense more than most Catholics. Of course, the Church could get persecuted more if it gets its act together, but you know, that comes with the territory of being in the true Faith.

Pope Benedict 16 is the Pope to back if ever there was one since Vatican 2. The smoke of Satan is blowing out, but it needs the wind shear of 100% reverent Masses with no toys or kids running around, decent clothes–nothing elaborate, though, no clapping for the obnoxious rock band or the new altar girl, no people leaving after receiving Jesus and no "Ha Ha"s in the Mass, save maybe the sermon if it’s relevant humor. All the rosary rallies will do a parish any big favors until the N.O. is fixed and reason returns regarding the pride of place of time-honored wisdom in Michael Rose’s “Ugly as Sin”. Even the return of the SSPX will not be enough without bishops enforcing the kind of N.O. Mass, the kind most attend, that was intended and then enforcing the true teachings of V2 taught by EWTN in schools that probably will not be traditionalist anyway. We need leaders who will use their authority to be shepherds where they have been lacking and not more olive branches to the schismatic traditionalists.
That’s my opinion. I tried to be charitable.
 
My prediction: this ‘reconciliation’ won’t happen anytime soon.
 
All the prayers and devotedness to the pope is meaningless if they are excommunicated.
Neither the SSPX priests nor the laity who attend their Masses are excommunicated.

wdtprs.com/blog/2008/07/guest-contribution-qa-with-the-pont-comm-ecclesia-dei-about-sspx-schism-and-sacraments/

A quote from the aforementioned article:

“PCED Confirms Officially: Society of St. Pius X within the Church, Not in Formal Schism; Catholics Commit No Sin nor Incur Any Canonical Penalty for Mass Attendance.”

Only the four SSPX bishops were excommunicated, in 1988.
 
The followers of the SSPX should take a “second look” at those who are in leadership/policy positions. Souls are at stake.
 
Sorry about the rant. I let my melancholic nature lead my thinking–kind of like Sarah Connor in T2 ranting about people like Miles Dyson creating deadly machines. I want to think I’m being fair, but evenly handing out judgments.

My main point is…the Mass’s liturgy and music and the church building’s art and architecture is a mini-catechism. Even if the Pope regularized “Pope Mike” and his bunch, it would not accomplish much. As most Catholics who go to Mass go to N.O. ones, those getting entertaining or people-oriented Masses and Mass buildings (though the Mass was made for the people, it was made for their souls and not the pleasure centers of the brain, though the latter is elevated if moved by the former) are getting a force working against any good that came from any Pope or bishop after Vatican 2. That needs to be cleaned up by anyone leading any body of the faithful.

I understand priests who feel afraid to run off their flock, but they’ve been leaving or practically making themselves "Pope Mike"s since the confusion of V2. I figure, priests, why not try tough love again? Try bringing people to the cross again. You might as well. In any case, if the priests are not going to do what’s necessary, the bishops should. If not they, the archbishop…and so on. All the Latin Mass communities together as licit and valid will not fix the problem, though Masses, reverently done and the people educated from their leader at the pulpit, would bring much more graces to the Earth.

Empathy with weakened priests is good. St. Francis would have done that. However, the people still need to be led and they need to be led with all their senses. They need the N.O. Mass and aesthetics done properly, catechetically-oriented, as they were, or they need to be all replaced by the Latin Mass and clergy (the former being retired or in some position where they don’t have to worry about pastoral issues) who are primed for feeding us with all the wisdom of the ancients of our Faith as well as Christ as the Eucharist. Empathy must also be given to the members of the Church’ souls. I can always go to Latin Masses and others can go to EWTN Masses, but many are lost and need to be regathered.

We all need the works. I think a mistake was made when it was somehow thought we could all be St. Francises in humble little unadorned chapels with possibly lousy singing (I don’t know if St. Francis or St. Clair had anyone with choir experience in the beginning) and a lot of simple sermons about love. Choosing to live their life would make them more attuned to graces that do not need all the art, architecture and truly soul-stirring music that does not bring attention to itself, but is part of the ambience. We, in our wear and tear mundane lives need our senses moved to understand certain things subconsciously and banners, people doing things meant to be done with minor orders, and the dropping of symbolic boundaries between the place for the offerer and the people–the whole people-centeredness are almost making a democracy out of a monarchy–God’s kingdom. The Mass and its surroundings are a mini-catechism.
The Buddhists understand the concept of sensed sacred space, the Muslims get it, the Hindus get it and even the high-Anglicans, who still have altar rails and gregorian chant, get it (well, they may not make places fancy on the outside in the city, but I snuck a quick look in a Buddhist place with its door open as I passed by and it looked pretty ornate–I certainly haven’t heard Buddhist rock coming out of any of their centers here in S. Korea)–why did we think ourselves above our psychological predisposition as everyday Joe and Jane-Catholic starting after Vatican 2? Obviously, the other religions and Christian faiths are in various shades of the dark, but they get that psychology, it seems. We still have Christ off the cross and/or with no cross in many places and, in some places, we might as well have the “Buddy Jesus” from “Dogma *”.

We wonder, then, how the homosexual movement, other promiscuity pushers and the naturists (probably plenty witches and shamans and their followers amongst them) is so strong in the world today. Many ex-Jews, ex-Catholics and ex-other Christians joined them or ok them uneducatedly or confusedly.

The Mass and the environment of it is a mini-catechism and the only one most will learn these days who have any Catholic beliefs in them. What have we all been taught? What in the world demands more respect and adherence–the ones God put in control or the so-called “rationalists”, their gatekeepers in big science, big business, big government, etc. and their master, practically or literally-speaking (depending on the individual)?*
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top