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Tannhauser_1509
Guest
“Relationship with Jesus” is a term I hear all the time in churches of all denominations, but I was wondering how much scripture and the saints have made explicit use of this phrase.
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animalis
Guest
“Explicit” is not an adverb. But consider this from the Catechism:
CCC 2558: “Great is the mystery of the faith!” The Church professes this mystery in the Apostles’ Creed (Part One) and celebrates it in the sacramental liturgy (Part Two), so that the life of the faithful may be conformed to Christ in the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father (Part Three). This mystery, then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.
CCC 2558: “Great is the mystery of the faith!” The Church professes this mystery in the Apostles’ Creed (Part One) and celebrates it in the sacramental liturgy (Part Two), so that the life of the faithful may be conformed to Christ in the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father (Part Three). This mystery, then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s my understanding that Scripture doesn’t use it explicitly at all, and one reason for that is the phrase “relationship with _____” is a modern expression or concept that’s only about 100 years old.
For the same reason, saints using this exact phrase would have to be relatively recent. I think St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta used a phrase that has been translated to English as “my relation to Jesus” which seems similar.
Edited to add, it’s pretty clear from the writings of the saints that many of them, both older and newer, did have a bond with Jesus that was equivalent to a mystic relationship, regardless of what word they used to describe it.
For the same reason, saints using this exact phrase would have to be relatively recent. I think St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta used a phrase that has been translated to English as “my relation to Jesus” which seems similar.
Edited to add, it’s pretty clear from the writings of the saints that many of them, both older and newer, did have a bond with Jesus that was equivalent to a mystic relationship, regardless of what word they used to describe it.
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venite_adoremus
Guest
It’s one of the hallmarks of the Protestant movement. “Relationship with Jesus” was used by many 19th century ministers to criticize Catholics–it was claimed by them that we do NOT have a relationship with Jesus because we “have to have priests” to get to Him. To continue the analogy, with the Bible and with Jesus as “personal Lord and Savior” there is no need for an institutional church with a hierarchy. Be wary. They do not understand the faith.
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Rosebud77
Guest
and vice versa, my friend. Does not mean what you say it means. Far from it.
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Ad_Orientem
Guest
I don’t think the phrase “relationship with Jesus” appears in scripture. There are saints who wrote much about intimacy with our Lord (St. Teresa of Avila comes to mind), not necessarily using that phrase.
Every Catholic should have a close personal relationship with our Lord. The problem lies in reducing intimacy to familiarity, which is easy to do in a culture that has a shallow or no concept of reverence, let alone holy fear. Still, an overly-familiar attempt at intimacy is better than no attempt at all.
Every Catholic should have a close personal relationship with our Lord. The problem lies in reducing intimacy to familiarity, which is easy to do in a culture that has a shallow or no concept of reverence, let alone holy fear. Still, an overly-familiar attempt at intimacy is better than no attempt at all.
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James248
Guest
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anon98328916
Guest
Prayer brings us closer to Jesus. Daily prayer is important as it deepens our relationship with Jesus.
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jaimeleglise
Guest
All our sacraments, especially Holy Eucharist and Reconciliation, bring us into a deep relationship with the Lord.
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Bookcat
Guest
“Faith opens us to knowing and welcoming the real identity of Jesus, his newness and oneness, his word, as a source of life, in order to live a personal relationship with him. Knowledge of the faith grows, it grows with the desire to find the way and in the end it is a gift of God who does not reveal himself to us as an abstract thing without a face or a name, because faith responds to a Person who wants to enter into a relationship of deep love with us and to involve our whole life.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sunday, 14 August 2011)
“Happy are you who believe!” (cf 1 Peter 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world."
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Homily at Yankee Stadium)
“Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Deus Caritas Est
“I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.”
~ Pope Francis (Joy of the Gospel)
(vatican.va/)
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sunday, 14 August 2011)
“Happy are you who believe!” (cf 1 Peter 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world."
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Homily at Yankee Stadium)
“Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Deus Caritas Est
“I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.”
~ Pope Francis (Joy of the Gospel)
(vatican.va/)
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PNEUMA
Guest
Fellowship with Jesus
1 John 1:3 “we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ”
1 John 1:3 “we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ”
po18guy
Well-known member
Precisely. It is the denominations which have rejected the Holy Eucharist that now must over-compensate by stressing a nebulous, emotional/psychological concept of the “personal relationship.” Reception of Christ has morphed into a thought process, being separated from, and devoid of, the grace which flows through the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Eucharist.
The faithful reception of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ physically and spiritually into our bodies is the most intensely personal relationship with our Lord this side of the gates of heaven. The modern concept of the ‘personal relationship’ strikes me as wishful thinking, since no transmittal of God’s grace is involved.
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PNEUMA
Guest
This is all correct, but for some reason you forgot, the reception of the spirit of Christ ?
Romans 8:9 “Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”
Galatians 4:6 “And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!”
1 Corinthians 6:17 “But anyone united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”
John 20:22 “When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
John 6:63 “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
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PNEUMA
Guest
The Christians are in the body of Christ and the Spirit of Christ is in the Christians.
John 14:20 “On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you”
John 15:4 “Abide in me as I abide in you”
John 6:56 “Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them”
1 Corinthians 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:12 “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ”
John 14:20 “On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you”
John 15:4 “Abide in me as I abide in you”
John 6:56 “Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them”
1 Corinthians 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:12 “For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ”
po18guy
Well-known member
True! However, Christ instituted, defined and commanded the perpetuation of the Holy Eucharist for an eternally valid reason. Grace flows through it, as grace flows via each of the Sacraments. To dismiss or diminish the Sacrament (as the reformation did), and rely on half of Jesus’ promise is granting Him short shrift. Sacred things must not be subjected to the profane reductionism of man.
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PNEUMA
Guest
Yes, but as Jesus said, flesh without spirit, is of no avial (John 6:63) It’s not enough to be in the body of Christ, one must also have the Spirit of Christ within oneself.
John 15:7 “If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.”
John 6:63 “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
po18guy
Well-known member
No argument - from a charismatic Catholic. Yet, if the flesh avails nothing - as many non-Catholics misinterpret it, then Jesus’ sacrifice was meaningless.
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Rosebud77
Guest
Not true .
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PNEUMA
Guest
Jesus here (John 6:63) speaks about flesh in general. The flesh is lifeless without the spirit.
James 2:26 “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead”
So again, it’s not enough to be in the body of Christ, one must also have the Spirit of Christ within oneself. First then you can do the works of God.
John 15:5 “He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing”
po18guy
Well-known member
We agree.
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