A Religion Free Society Coming Soon?

[survive]

And so far, by the good grace of God, these have remained just such… visions in your head.

Pundits like Mr. Bill O’Reilly (with his mythical ‘War on Christmas’ and all) do what all great conspiracy theory peddlers do: He feeds on such fears.

There is no evidence of a systematic and legal ridding of Christianity or Christmas.

I am more than open to being proved wrong.

I hope you are right about this. But I read a lot of history and I notice several things, including these:
A group, whether a religion, race, political persuasion, ethnic group, generation, regional group or occupational group, can easily and very suddenly find itself persecuted.
The only easy way to tell who will be next is that a previously respected group finds itself forced onto the defensive about its existence in daily life.

 

[survive]

With all due respect, I think you need to take a deep breath and pray for some peace in your mind, if you seriously worry about this. In the United States, anyway, it is not likely to happen.

I do. I pray for peace of mind and for our freedom in the USA a lot.

Afghani soldiers? Are you worrying about the Christians over there, or is this thread about the USA? Are we talking about a few different cultural contexts?

I envision what happens and what has happened around the world happening here one day.
And yes, I worry about Afghani Christians as well.

Also, plenty of non-religious people celebrate Christmas because the version of it that has been propagated in the secular media (that the non-religious are comfortable celebrating) is wholly devoid of religious content, so I do not think you are correct that anyone who celebrates Christmas should be logically required to mention that they are celebrating it. I don’t know about you, but my Christmas does not include ribboned wreathes and reindeer banners; however, I’m willing to grant that other peoples’ might.

I don’t want to require them to mention it. What worries me is when it’s obviously on their minds, because they saw fit to mention a holiday season, and they are celebrating Christmas, and seem afraid to mention it as if forbidden to do so on pain of unemployment.

 

[KingAlfred]

** How come in a democratic and Christian United States, Nativity scenes and public prayers are banned?
How come seventh grader Amber Mangum was forbidden to read a bible in the school cafeteria during her lunch period at the Dwight D. Eisenhower middle school in Prince George’s County, MD?
How come British Airways worker Nadia Eweida was fired for wearing a cross?
What led people into such “Christianophobia” and “religionphobia”?
I was in the mall the other day and the employees said “Happy Holidays”. I responded “You mean Merry Christmas, right”? One employee said “We are told to be politically correct”. I simply said, “Well, you can learn to be politically incorrect too.”.

I get very upset when these things happen… **

Anti-religious sentiment is growing fast in America. It’s actually frightening. As did Romans in the late fifth century, I tend to view events in general as indicative of the downfall of Civilization.

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t want to require them to mention it. What worries me is when it’s obviously on their minds, because they saw fit to mention a holiday season, and they are celebrating Christmas, and seem afraid to mention it as if forbidden to do so on pain of unemployment.

Okay. I’m just saying that there are probably more likely, less worriesome explanations for the current state of religious holiday recognition or lack of it around this time in the United States than some sort of “War on Christmas” or “War on Christianity”.

Also, for what it’s worth, I’ve wished employees of local businesses that I frequent a merry Christmas recently and was not detained and questioned, and neither were they for accepting my wishes and in some cases reciprocating. Perhaps we can win this fictional “war” this way - one record store and bagel shop at a time!

 

[Formosus]

Anti-religious sentiment is growing fast in America. It’s actually frightening. As did Romans in the late fifth century, I tend to view events in general as indicative of the downfall of Civilization.

Except that Roman civilization didn’t fall in the 5th century. The Gothic rulers of Rome ruled much along the same lines as the previous latin rulers and very little changed for citizens of Rome. In the east, the Roman Empire did not collapse until 1453 and it maintained a very high level of civilization and culture.

Irrelevant of that, the western Empire was not anti Christian before it fell. Infact , it was very christian. The government removed the pagan altar from the senate building and christianity was the official Religion of the empire since St. Theodosius the Great. The western Empire fell for many reason, religion was not one of them. Completely non-related to the United States today.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I don’t understand why you keep linking us to Book ads.

Because it’s easier than repeating information. This book describes how and why parochial schools have outperformed public schools in educating the poorest in urban settings.

Also, what exactly in your opinion would entail the abolition of public education? Are you promoting the privatization of all schools (while implementing a voucher system) or are you suggesting that we devolve back into a laissez-faire system?

If you ask atheists to pay for your children’s education, don’t be surprised when they come home atheists. That goes for vouchers as well, I am very concerned with parochial schools becoming captive to the same educrats that have ruined public education.

And I’d rather my money went to supporting parochial schools through my parish than public schools through the state.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Because it’s easier than repeating information. This book describes how and why parochial schools have outperformed public schools in educating the poorest in urban settings.

I’m a poor college student and honestly have little interest in reading those books. Since it seems you have read these books could you quote some relevant material for us?

If you ask atheists to pay for your children’s education, don’t be surprised when they come home atheists.

I smell fish… of the red herring variety.

That goes for vouchers as well, I am very concerned with parochial schools becoming captive to the same educrats that have ruined public education.

And how exactly are/have private parochial schools become hostages?

And I’d rather my money went to supporting parochial schools through my parish than public schools through the state.

And I’d rather my money go to having a free (or damned closed to free) system that ensures equality. Completely privatized education will do nothing but hasten another aristocracy, which would arguably lead to much worse scenarios.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I hope you are right about this. But I read a lot of history and I notice several things, including these:
A group, whether a religion, race, political persuasion, ethnic group, generation, regional group or occupational group, can easily and very suddenly find itself persecuted.

Very true, however don’t forget that rarely does this happen to majorities. Christians still account for some 80% of the population. If any true Christian persecution is to befall us it likely won’t happen in our lifetime.

The only easy way to tell who will be next is that a previously respected group finds itself forced onto the defensive about its existence in daily life.

And this has not happened en masse (as Right Wing pundits would have us believe). What is called into question is the legal respect being afforded to Christianity when no such respect should have been given in the first place.

This whole cry of “Christian Persecution in America!” is nothing more than projection. It comes from the false notion that Christianity should in some way be put on a legal pedestal with all other religions being subservient.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I’m a poor college student and honestly have little interest in reading those books. Since it seems you have read these books could you quote some relevant material for us?

Here is a review:

online.wsj.com/article/SB122843754963881413.html

I smell fish… of the red herring variety.

Simple logic, my friend.

And how exactly are/have private parochial schools become hostages?

By court decree. It’s a pretty well established principle of law that when you take money from the government you have to follow the government’s rule.

And I’d rather my money go to having a free (or damned closed to free) system that ensures equality.

And who exactly is stopping you from giving your money to the poorest schools?

Completely privatized education will do nothing but hasten another aristocracy, which would arguably lead to much worse scenarios.

Anytime you are ready to weigh the facts, I suggest the book I first referenced. Catholic schools do a far superior job of educating the poor than public schools.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**The little girl was FORBIDDEN to read the bible. Why would you come up with these rules of the school when it isn’t so?""

**Maybe what YOU posted isn’t so–or is not so now.

**
**Furthermore THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY, read your history books. **

**Read the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution.

Please tell me ONE quotation of the New Testament in either.

The 18th century Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the US Senate (which means it has the force of law), it says that the United States is “by no means founded on the Christian religion.”

This country was, alas, founded on principles of the Enlightment, the forerunner of Secular Humanism. We are reaping the fruits now.

Even Christopher Columbus WAS A CATHOLIC who gave communion to his men before he set sail, and named his ship after the Blessed Mother the Santa Maria, (Saint Mary).

Since Christopher Columbus was neither Priest nor Deacon, he could not have given communion to anybody.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**The little girl was FORBIDDEN to read the bible. Why would you come up with these rules of the school when it isn’t so?""

**Maybe what YOU posted isn’t so–or is not so now.

**
**Furthermore THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY, read your history books. **

**Read the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution.

Please tell me ONE quotation of the New Testament in either.

The 18th century Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the US Senate (which means it has the force of law), it says that the United States is “by no means founded on the Christian religion.”

This country was, alas, founded on principles of the Enlightment, the forerunner of Secular Humanism. We are reaping the fruits now.

Even Christopher Columbus WAS A CATHOLIC who gave communion to his men before he set sail, and named his ship after the Blessed Mother the Santa Maria, (Saint Mary).

Since Christopher Columbus was neither Priest nor Deacon, he could not have given communion to anybody.

OMG, Christopher Columbus had a priest give communion to his men…good grief… This country was founded on Christianity. Maryland is taken for the Blessed Virgin MARYland…get it? Etc…etc…

 

[dzheremi]

Wow, that is some seriously weak reasoning. “Michigan” comes from an Ojibwe word meaning “Big Lake” (at least according to wikipedia)…I guess America was founded on big lakes as much as it was on Christianity, then.

Oh, wait…what am I thinking…that makes no sense!

 

[gcnuss]

OMG, Christopher Columbus had a priest give communion to his men…good grief… This country was founded on Christianity. Maryland is taken for the Blessed Virgin MARYland…get it? Etc…etc…

OTCA,

According to this website –
msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/name.html –
Maryland’s name has nothing to do with the Blessed Virgin.

Maryland’s name honors Queen Henrietta Maria (1609-1669), wife of Charles I (1600-1649), King of Great Britain and Ireland, who signed the 1632 charter establishing the Maryland colony.

Queen Henrietta Maria was the daughter of Henry IV of France (1553-1610) and his second wife, Marie de Medici (1573-1642). She also was the sister of Louis XIII (1601-1643) of France. Married to Charles I at sixteen, she had nine children, of whom three died in infancy. In 1644, in danger because of civil unrest, Henrietta Maria left England for France. Her husband was beheaded at Whitehall in London in 1649. Henrietta Maria died in 1669 at Colombes, near Paris.

 

[Eucharisted]

** How come in a democratic and Christian United States, Nativity scenes and public prayers are banned?
How come seventh grader Amber Mangum was forbidden to read a bible in the school cafeteria during her lunch period at the Dwight D. Eisenhower middle school in Prince George’s County, MD?
How come British Airways worker Nadia Eweida was fired for wearing a cross?
What led people into such “Christianophobia” and “religionphobia”?
I was in the mall the other day and the employees said “Happy Holidays”. I responded “You mean Merry Christmas, right”? One employee said “We are told to be politically correct”. I simply said, “Well, you can learn to be politically incorrect too.”.

I get very upset when these things happen… **

Pray, hope, and don’t worry. Worry is useless.

I recommend the Rosary.

 

[violetandgandal]

OTCA,

According to this website –
msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/name.html –
Maryland’s name has nothing to do with the Blessed Virgin.

Darn!!! I wanted to point out that little bit of history, and you beat me to it :clapping:

 

[violetandgandal]

I can understand that businesses, such as the company I work for, are required to use the term “Holiday” instead of Christmas because they have to operate under the code of diversity. What bothers me, and probably bothers the OP, is that this diversity business has become the battle standard for the secular humanists, and they use it to not only be sensitive to the religious holidays and celebrations of non-christians, but also to marginalize Christianity.

I don’t think that the public restrictions on the display of Christmas scenes and Christmas greetings is just an attempt at being sensitive to the cultural needs of non-christians. The people behind these restrictions hate Christianity and would love to see it destroyed. At the very basic level we are at war with the world, the flesh and the devil, and I firmly believe that satan is behind a lot of the anti-christian activity in this country and the rest of the world. The restrictions on the display of Nativity scenes and Christmas greetings is just one example of satan’s activity, but certainly not the worst.

 

[wisdomseeker]

There are many other holidays celebrated by Americans that are not federally recognized.

You didn’t answer my question.

Are you suggesting that we force private industries to conform to your awkwardly intolerant standard?

I just wonder what would happen if all christians stop buying during christmas? since christmas time is the biggest time to buy and fill the packets of those who want to deny it.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Maryland is taken for the Blessed Virgin MARYland…get it? Etc…etc…

That was supposed to be a joke, right?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

That was supposed to be a joke, right?

No it wasn’t. It is true just like St. Paul, Minnesota, along with the hundreds of St. cities. Maryland was named after the Virgin Mary no matter what you say.

 

[BrianH]

It was named after Henrietta Maria. That is common knowledge.