A scripture that completely defeats Mormons and Protestents!

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Thanks MatthewCrossman,
As we are on the conversation of corruption, will some one please tell me about the story that apparently there was two popes once! Is that true!? Or is that a made up story?

Between 1410 & 1417, there were not two Popes, but three. Since you ask. There were two from 1378 to 1410. ​

 

[StrawberryJam]

Between 1410 & 1417, there were not two Popes, but three. Since you ask. There were two from 1378 to 1410. ​

Men love titles after all. Especially Vicar of Christ.

 

[Zundrah]

But seriously now - What scripture can I throw at my Mormon friend to get her to see sense then?
There must be just at least one scripture that completely writes the Mormon faith off?

 

[Zundrah]

This is what she just emailed me!!! - “Jesus Christ did not Covenant with Peter, but bestowed upon him the keys of his kingdom. These keys are to be passed on but can also be lost due to transgression. The were lost because of a great apostacy we can talk about that when we see you on Saturday morning.”

See why I need help now?..
What should I say to her?

 

[StrawberryJam]

But seriously now - What scripture can I throw at my Mormon friend to get her to see sense then?
There must be just at least one scripture that completely writes the Mormon faith off?

From a brief look at their beliefs, I am not sure they are going to be “thrown off” by a bible verse and just pack it up. They seem to rely on another book as well as the bible and their own traditions also. I don’t know their method of viewing the bible or how they are allowed to interpret it themselves if at all. But, being a friend can’t be about throwing a bible passage out to write off their faith community no matter how wrong you may think they may be. Love your friend, and that is power.

 

[StrawberryJam]

This is what she just emailed me!!! - “Jesus Christ did not Covenant with Peter, but bestowed upon him the keys of his kingdom. These keys are to be passed on but can also be lost due to transgression. The were lost because of a great apostacy we can talk about that when we see you on Saturday morning.”

See why I need help now?..
What should I say to her?

When did this great apostacy happen? Was it total and complete? How do we know this?

How do christians come up with such certainties like this?

 

[Zundrah]

When did this great apostacy happen? Was it total and complete? How do we know this?

How do christians come up with such certainties like this?

Gahh, she lies…!!!
There never was a great apostacy! JESUS CHRIST SAID THIS LOUD AND PERFECTLY CLEAR!: “Peter you are a rock and on this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it!”

SEE - “never prevail against it” !
So it can not and never be broken by some fake apostacy that she claim to have happened!

“never prevail” - that means that it will last for an eternity!

 

[StrawberryJam]

Gahh, she lies…!!!
There never was a great apostacy! JESUS CHRIST SAID THIS LOUD AND PERFECTLY CLEAR!: “Peter you are a rock and on this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it!”

SEE - “never prevail against it” !
So it can not and never be broken by some fake apostacy that she claim to have happened!

“never prevail” - that means that it will last for an eternity!

Well, let’s give her the benefit of the doubt that she is not intentionally lying but was trained to think a certain way.

That’s better now, isn’t it?

I wish I knew more about their beliefs to help give you some questions.

Just keep asking for evidence.

Doing fine.

Don’t forget she is your friend even if you don’t agree on this stuff.

 

[Zundrah]

From a brief look at their beliefs, I am not sure they are going to be “thrown off” by a bible verse and just pack it up. They seem to rely on another book as well as the bible and their own traditions also. I don’t know their method of viewing the bible or how they are allowed to interpret it themselves if at all. But, being a friend can’t be about throwing a bible passage out to write off their faith community no matter how wrong you may think they may be. Love your friend, and that is power.

Strawberry Jam look at this scripture! -

Luke 9:49-50 (New International Version)

49"Master," said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

So, yes Straberry Jam, you are right in some ways. Mormons do have the same faith as us (catholics & protestents) , the faith in jesus christ ( the gosple ).

 

[StrawberryJam]

Strawberry Jam look at this scripture! -

Luke 9:49-50 (New International Version)

49"Master," said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

So, yes Straberry Jam, you are right in some ways. Mormons do have the same faith as us (catholics & protestents) , the faith in jesus christ ( the gosple ).

Thanks for letting me know about that.

I wish you both the very best.


SJ

 

[Zundrah]

Well, though your conclusion is correct, the premise is not. At the time that verse was written, there was no “bible”. The Holy Writings that were collected centuries later and bound into what we currently call “The New Testament” were largely separated from one another. In fact, this book of Revelation was hotly contested for inclusion in the NT. It almost didn’t make it! From a historical perspective, I dont’ think this can be applied to the rest of the Scripture.

Besides, since the Catholic Church collected the 27 books that became the NT, added them to the Alexandrian Septuagint and called them the “Bible”, it would be accurate to say that Catholics added the entire NT.

Grrr, I’m completely gutted about this result!
I was telling a catholic how and why I was going towards Catholicism and as I was telling her, a scripture popped into my head.
Then a few days later my friend (who is Mormon) left the book of Mormon at my house for me. Then just as I picked it up another scripture popped into my head again. It was the scriptures I mentioned in the beginning of this thread!
I thought God was telling me not to read and believe it (book of Mormon), I though he was saying this by leading me to these scriptures… So I really thought that these scriptures in the end of revelation were the answer to both problems…
:bighanky::snowing: Never mind…

 

[MacMcCarver]

Do not be discouraged, Zundrah. I think God was telling you something. You cannot believe the Book of Mormon because it is a fabrication that the Church of Rome does not accept. You see, Jesus gave authority to Peter, the first pope, and that authority has been passed down through apostolic succession to the present day. You can have faith in everything that the Church proclaims. The Holy Spirit has preserved the Church since its beginning. So be not discouraged, but have faith in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, which Jesus founded and the Holy Ghost preserves!

 

[Zundrah]

Do not be discouraged, Zundrah. I think God was telling you something. You cannot believe the Book of Mormon because it is a fabrication that the Church of Rome does not accept. You see, Jesus gave authority to Peter, the first pope, and that authority has been passed down through apostolic succession to the present day. You can have faith in everything that the Church proclaims. The Holy Spirit has preserved the Church since its beginning. So be not discouraged, but have faith in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, which Jesus founded and the Holy Ghost preserves!

To every thing you have said; “You can have faith in everything that the Church proclaims. The Holy Spirit has preserved the Church since its beginning. So be not discouraged, but have faith in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, which Jesus founded and the Holy Ghost.” I say this, “I DO!”
It feels like I’m taking vows to marriage! But I’m not, I’m taking vows to the one true church of Christ!

Thank you MacMcCarver,
I will never be discouraged. I know God was speaking to me.
“It was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you, but my father in heaven.”

 

[MatthewCrossman]

Grrr, I’m completely gutted about this result!
I was telling a catholic how and why I was going towards Catholicism and as I was telling her, a scripture popped into my head.
Then a few days later my friend (who is Mormon) left the book of Mormon at my house for me. Then just as I picked it up another scripture popped into my head again. It was the scriptures I mentioned in the beginning of this thread!
I thought God was telling me not to read and believe it (book of Mormon), I though he was saying this by leading me to these scriptures… So I really thought that these scriptures in the end of revelation were the answer to both problems…
:bighanky::snowing: Never mind…

Hey Zundrah…hang in there! You’re doing great. :clapping: God is clearly doing a work in you and you’re instincts are indeed correct.

Besides anything else the Book of Mormon is entirely unverified by way of archaeology etc. and most definitely the teachings of that particular church fit the biblical definition of ‘‘another gospel’’. The BoM and LDS teachings actually defeat themselves.

I would suggest keep praying for your friend, and ask God to give you the right answers to her questions. I’ll pray for you too.

 

[Cachonga]

There are problems with talking to Mormon’s about Jesus Christ. We are not “brothers” in Christ (unless you believe that Jesus was just a man who became a god, and that the Father was once a man who became a god, and that there are many gods on many planets, etc…). The Mormons, like Catholics, believe their leaders are infallible. I would recommend the following site for help with the Mormon issue (sure, it’s known as an “anti-catholic” site, but the information about Mormons is still very good and should be very helpful). I would also recommend the book Letters to a Mormon Elder for additional information regarding the LDS Church.

Hope this helps!

 

[po18guy]

But seriously now - What scripture can I throw at my Mormon friend to get her to see sense then?
There must be just at least one scripture that completely writes the Mormon faith off?

The entirety of the LDS faith rests upon Joseph Smith’s assertion of the “great apostasy” occurring within Christ’s Church. He claimed that, since the Church had utterly and completely failed, that a “restoration” was necessary. Lacking that historic event, there is neither reason for, nor foundation of the LDS faith. Jesus’ words to us in **Matthew 16:18 **assure us that the gates of hades will not prevail against His Church. So, there is, indeed, a scripture passage which negates the claims of the LDS faith.

Top this with the fact that the LDS cannot provide any who, what, when, where or why of their alleged “great apostasy”, and the claim fails completely.

Consider also that Joseph Smith appeared in the post-Christ era of “false prophets”, “false christs” and “antichrists”.

 

[Zundrah]

The entirety of the LDS faith rests upon Joseph Smith’s assertion of the “great apostasy” occurring within Christ’s Church. He claimed that, since the Church had utterly and completely failed, that a “restoration” was necessary. Lacking that historic event, there is neither reason for, nor foundation of the LDS faith. Jesus’ words to us in **Matthew 16:18 **assure us that the gates of hades will not prevail against His Church. So, there is, indeed, a scripture passage which negates the claims of the LDS faith.

Top this with the fact that the LDS cannot provide any who, what, when, where or why of their alleged “great apostasy”, and the claim fails completely.

Consider also that Joseph Smith appeared in the post-Christ era of “false prophets”, “false christs” and “antichrists”.

That’s right, so when you confront mormons about that they just say it’s a matter of faith and not fact. Such stupidity… That just cannot support their mad claims at all. FACT!

 

[po18guy]

That’s right, so when you confront mormons about that they just say it’s a matter of faith and not fact. Such stupidity… That just cannot support their mad claims at all. FACT!

For a simple and coherant explanation of the origins of the Mormon faith, I have seen nothing better than that given in the animated series “South Park” www.southparkstudios.com/ Just type in “Mormons” in the search block and the episode will load. If you concentrate on the “flashback” portion of the story, and forget the crude and irreverant language used by the main characters, it is quite illuminating.

 

[Zundrah]

For a simple and coherant explanation of the origins of the Mormon faith, I have seen nothing better than that given in the animated series “South Park” www.southparkstudios.com/ Just type in “Mormons” in the search block and the episode will load. If you concentrate on the “flashback” portion of the story, and forget the crude and irreverant language used by the main characters, it is quite illuminating.

Nothing wrong with this source (despite the obvious)! It’s a clear message and useful one. They are just proving that the Mormon faith is all silly made up junk! Amen.

 

[po18guy]

Nothing wrong with this source (despite the obvious)! It’s a clear message and useful one. They are just proving that the Mormon faith is all silly made up junk! Amen.

Sadly, Joseph Smith has “lead even the elect astray, if that were possible” (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22). The fearful thing to consider is that a greater one than he is likely to come, since he showed no “great signs or wonders”, but only intriguing words. We have not seen the worst just yet.

Perhaps we shall be one when the true tribulation appears.