A sermon at a "traditional" parish that left me uneasy

[7_Sorrows]

I have never had a priest give an entire homily on sex or even mention the sexual act or marriage bed or any of the things described in your post let alone go on for 25 minutes. I would feel uneasy as well.

 

[Corki]

The pastor should have made his long speech to those he considers to be ignorant on dogma during a workshop in the evening. I’m so blessed to attend a Jesuit parish where the homilies are thought provoking and not lectures.

Do you think that every homily should only include material that the priest is sure that everyone is “ignorant” of?

Sometimes a good homily reminds us of what we already know, or should know. Sometime a homily helps to fill in the gaps of some peoples knowledge or give more understanding to a topic. Sometimes a good homily puts emphasis on things parishioners know but have taken for granted.

 

[kozlosap]

I don’t think the priest should make those in attendance fell like they need to leave because he is on a rant about the sexual practices in the USA. if he chooses to use his twenty five minutes on dogma instead of how we may become better people and live out the Gospels, that is his prerogative, but I dare say that he sounds very out of touch with the Real world. As I stated above, he could have scheduled a workshop in the evening to preach his dogma. Most likely, he understood that the workshop would have no takers. If I go to mass and find that I need to leave because the material is inappropriate for my children, then there is a real problem with the judgement off that particular celebrant.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Without hearing it, it’s hard to know whether I would have considered it too explicit, but my instinct is that it’s good the priest is talking about sex and what’s allowed and not. People are so poorly catechized on this topic; where else do young people learn nowadays that contraception is wrong? If they don’t hear that until they’re already engaged, our church has problems. The sexual culture has been pounding the opposite meassage loudly for years.

Was it a family Mass or is this Mass usually better attended by teens or young adults? That might make a difference, too.

Actually, it was the 11 am “family” mass.

I do agree that some priests are so in the wrong about this issue. I actually wasn’t disturbed by it until the word “fornication” sunk in several minutes later.

The pastor should have made his long speech to those he considers to be ignorant on dogma during a workshop in the evening. I’m so blessed to attend a Jesuit parish where the homilies are thought provoking and not lectures.

I agree with you as I love a thought-provoking sermon over a lecture (as a product of Jesuit university, I do miss those Sunday evening masses…). However, it’s hard to heard a good sermon these days that isn’t mushy or comes across like the celebrant is reading cliff notes from a doctorate dissertation.

 

[Corki]

I don’t think the priest should make those in attendance fell like they need to leave because he is on a rant about the sexual practices in the USA. if he chooses to use his twenty five minutes on dogma instead of how we may become better people and live out the Gospels, that is his prerogative, but I dare say that he sounds very out of touch with the Real world.

Kind of a false dichotomy. A homily about the correct role of sexuality IS a homily about how we may become better people and live out the Gospels.

I agree, however, that 25 minutes seems to be a long time to dwell on the single topic.

Actually, it was the 11 am “family” mass.

I do agree that some priests are so in the wrong about this issue. I actually wasn’t disturbed by it until the word “fornication” sunk in several minutes later.

It must get real interesting in your parish when the readings at Mass include the Gospel of Matthew or Paul’s letter to the Corinthians.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

It must get real interesting in your parish when the readings at Mass include the Gospel of Matthew or Paul’s letter to the Corinthians.

You’re probably right. And yes, this parish attracts the home-schooling crowd.

I will say, as disturbed as I was, the nearby Latin-mass parish has a tendency to cover the same three topics on any given Sunday sermon without fail: gay marriage, problems after Vatican II, and the decaying of society.

And the sky is blue.

Thus, perhaps I should have contextualized Sunday’s sermon with this…

 

[ServusHumilis]

I actually wasn’t disturbed by it until the word “fornication” sunk in several minutes later.

Why? Fornication is wrong. It’s not as if this shouldn’t be said in a homily; it’s the priest’s job to spread the word of God. I would figure the only way one could be offended by hearing this this is because they fornicate.

 

[jeannetherese]

The local O.F. parish I attended Sunday offered a homily on the same topics. Our priest was very sensitive, both in his choice of language and in his acknowledgement that addressing such topics could be as challenging to the priest as to the congregation.

I was grateful for his concern for our souls; he works hard to try to help us get to heaven.

May God bless our priests and may many holy men join them in discerning the priestly vocation.
Amen.

 

[pianistclare]

The local O.F. parish I attended Sunday offered a homily on the same topics. Our priest was very sensitive, both in his choice of language and in his acknowledgement that addressing such topics could be as challenging to the priest as to the congregation.

I was grateful for his concern for our souls; he works hard to try to help us get to heaven.

May God bless our priests and may many holy men join them in discerning the priestly vocation.
Amen.

If a priest takes a particular topic on, we have to trust that he felt it needed to be taught.

 

[on_the_hill]

Maybe there are venues that are better suited for mature discussions. Seems like a homily at a family Mass could discuss those sins without going into detail.

[our homily this week was about hearing God’s call, as Samuel did…]

 

[St_Francis]

When my teenage dUghter was arguing with me about “my” (Catholic) take on matters if sexual activity, etc, she kept saying I was the only person who thought that way. She said no one else ever talked the way I did about the topics.

So it would have been great for me if a priest had also mentioned these topics during his homilies. One if the purposes of the homily or sermon is to teach us. And I appreciate a priest who does that. All too many priests I have heard tend to deliver feel-good homilies, including priests who on All-Souls Day mention only people going to Heaven.

 

[amsjj]

I remember when one of my bishops talked on sex. For quite a bit of it, I was embarrassed – it was like hearing my own parents talking about it! Which they didn’t. And this was my spiritual dad!! But I did learn something and it was better than how I first found out when I was a kid, when another kid showed me pornography.

 

[CaptFun]

Like some others here, the “I wasn’t there …” proviso applies.

As the OP mentioned, this week’s epistle was about the sanctity of the body.

Priests we must remember are confessors and pastors. He may have been formed partly by what he’d been hearing that some in his flock were needing to be counseled on.

To be sure we are surrounded by so much on the topic that instruct us the wrong ways … that temptation and sexual excitement may be sought out as a positive or for entertainment, the easygoing sexual ethics proffered by Playboy and Cosmo (or worse), and so at some point a priest may feel duty bound to speak on these matters when the liturgy so directs.

If it was a long sermon … he may have dealt with many aspects of the problem … counseling one group on their special sin … then another.

As per sheltered children who might have heard a discouraging word … they’ll hear them soon enough no matter what you do … perhaps its best to get the armor before the arrow strikes. A parent might be taken by surprise and have to explain something like birth control too early. But sometimes children’s questions needn’t be answered all at once. Or avoided with a horrified look that makes them OVERLY curious.

There was a story about a parent being asked by their child " … where do babies come from …". After taking a deep breath, the parent went into all the aspects of marriage and the sex act using the most diplomatic language, high ideals, and lofty sacramental values. After which the puzzled, distracted child said …

“Well, Joey’s new baby brother came from the Hospital. Which one did our baby come from?”

If in doubt … give the priest the benefit of it. Another week another liturgy another sermon. Probably not about sex so much this week.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Ten works. Six, not so much. At six, they are just learning how babies are made. They don’t need to know ABC.

I know nothing about parenting. Six probably is a bit too early. But only a bit. You will eventually need to confront sexual issues, though. That’s all I’m saying. Homeschooling and parental guidance should not be used to hide these from kids, as they’ll find it anyway. And we have a morally good way to talk about and see human sexuality.

But however you wish to teach it to your kids is your business. I can’t and won’t tell you how to raise your kids. I’m sure you’ll find some way to teach your kids the Truth at the right time. You seem to have discretion.

I’d say it’s probably a good thing for some home-school kids to hear a little about the world once in awhile: especially from a priest.

The few I went to high school with (they were home-schooled up to 9th grade) were painfully awkward and not ready for the reality of things, not being raised to resist some of the bad things in today’s culture. They started off hopelessly naïve, but have now, for the most part, become neo-heathens, post-college. I imagine if they’d have had some exposure at a younger age and been taught about it from a Catholic source, I doubt they’d be in the state they are today. Needless to say, I’m not a huge fan of home-schooling.

:sad_yes: It’s sad some parents use homeschooling to hide their kids from the world. Especially because it never lasts long.

Sadly, kids will learn about the world one way or another. Parents cannot shelter their kids. But we weren’t made to be sheltered. We were made to preach the good news, in word and deed. We can give our kids the capacity to do this, by showing them good ways to think about things, including human sexuality. I think this priest helped in that way. And I think homeschooling can also work to that ends, when used properly.

Based solely on what you have quoted here, it looks like the priest was making a very big effort to deal with an adult topic without saying anything that was graphic or beyond a “PG” level. Homilies should not be aimed at an 8 year old level; they need to cover a broad variety of topics important to the Catholic faithful and some of those topics are going to be ones that only effect the adults in the congregation and are beyond the understanding of the children. Since it’s unlikely that many of the parishioners are attending a separate class in moral theology, the weekly homily is the only time the priest has to cover these things.

And even some eight-year olds might have had a sense of it!

For the youngest of children present, I would wager that any talk using “sexual …” would blow over their heads. Teenagers present should hear and understand. Children that are between 5-12 might or might not understand either. But when have we gotten so afraid to talk about morality and sexual desires? They are God given and a part of life. The Bible in a number of places is rather graphic in places like Song of Solomon and even in descriptions of actions of various people in it. I think it isn’t a matter that some home school children might be embarrassed, I think that moral issues and challenges need to be taken on in more homilies.

Have we forgotten about the Theology of the Body around here? Human sexuality is wonderful! And it’s wonderful because Christ sanctified longing, desire, and the human body especially. The world must know about it.

 

[TarkanAttila]

When my teenage dUghter was arguing with me about “my” (Catholic) take on matters if sexual activity, etc, she kept saying I was the only person who thought that way. She said no one else ever talked the way I did about the topics.

So it would have been great for me if a priest had also mentioned these topics during his homilies. One if the purposes of the homily or sermon is to teach us. And I appreciate a priest who does that. All too many priests I have heard tend to deliver feel-good homilies, including priests who on All-Souls Day mention only people going to Heaven.

Yeah. That bites, doesn’t it?

Chesterton might have been a good way to go on that. Or, for someone from this century, Christopher West.

 

[maryjk]

I know nothing about parenting. Six probably is a bit too early. But only a bit. You will eventually need to confront sexual issues, though. That’s all I’m saying. Homeschooling and parental guidance should not be used to hide these from kids, as they’ll find it anyway. And we have a morally good way to talk about and see human sexuality.

But however you wish to teach it to your kids is your business. I can’t and won’t tell you how to raise your kids. I’m sure you’ll find some way to teach your kids the Truth at the right time. You seem to have discretion.

He is 19 now. So yes, he does know about sexuality. And no, we never hid sexual issues.

But he was first taught the right way. Sex is between a married couple. Marriage is forever. Marriage is between a man and a woman. And NFP is the only moral way to regulate births.

When he understood that, THEN we moved to what other people might do.

 

[Colorad007]

I know the parish you attend and I actually know very well a priest of Opus Dei who helps out occasionally at the parish. Frankly, the sermon sounds wonderful. I wouldhave no problem with a good priest talking frankly with my young daughter about sexuality, albeit in an age-appropriate way. But it is tough to be age-appropriate at a Sunday Mass. I mean, I wouldn’t give them a graphic description of the sex act, but sexuality is a very important part of who we are as human persons, and it is never too early to catechize on the matter. Properly ordered sexuality is a gift and not something to be embarrassed about, even if it should nevertheless be approached with proper reverence, privacy, and modesty.

 

[Colorad007]

My wife is a second-grade public school teacher. I assure you all that even most seven year-olds know much more than you’d like to admit. Either Jay-Z will catechize your kids or you and the Church will catechize your kids. But even at seven somebody will be catechizing.

 

[TarkanAttila]

He is 19 now. So yes, he does know about sexuality. And no, we never hid sexual issues.

But he was first taught the right way. Sex is between a married couple. Marriage is forever. Marriage is between a man and a woman. And NFP is the only moral way to regulate births.

When he understood that, THEN we moved to what other people might do.

When did you start talking to him about that sort of thing? What do you think a good age is?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

OP, since attend Mass there regularly did you talk with anyone or hear comments after Mass? You might consider this is a subject that the parishioners have asked to hear from the pulpit.