A Sincere Question for Atheists

[Wormwood]

one more quick note for all of the random process non-believers. Amino acids, that are the building blocks of life, fall to the earth constantly from space. They are often discovered attached to debris or in craters. These amino acids need only a small electrical charge to spring to life and become simple single celled organisms. The electrical charge neccessary to facilitate this transformation can be found in our atmospere via lightining. Genes are designed to survive, therefore organisms make many adaptations ( such as bacteria that live in boiling water of hot springs)…so the notion of correct atmosphere and oxygen levels are irrelevant, because life will suite itself to it’s environment. The random process therefore thrives all around us.

 

[Kevan]

wolpertinger:

Not a random process at all: random mutations and decidedly non-random selection, iterated ad nauseam.

Are you saying that an intelligent being directed the selection?

Remember: if you are proceeding from an atheist presupposition, all you have “in the beginning” are particles. What is natural selection going to select from? There are no mind-boggling, overwhelmingly complex DNA codes to hiccup and produce beneficial mutations.

First design a scenario that’ll get us from hydrogen to biopolymers, then we can talk about how a long streak of lucky birth defects resulted in biology professors.

 

[Pro_Iesu]

Hmmm physics complex and unmeasurable with so many things that can not be explained. Then again physics if i remember what my teacher taught me last year is the science used to explain why things work not where they came from so physics will never ultimately tell us that answer!

Certain theories in quantum mechanics have been proven wrong and thus have been in the process of being tweaked.
SOmethings though particles don’t dissapear, there are 2 theories

1. dark matter
2. instant transportation-its not gone just somewhere else instantly
   (weird thing eh)

new discoveries everyday change how we look at physics and quantum mechanics(black holes a few months ago everyone believed nothing escaped (mathematically proven too) recently there have been indications that some matter does spew out even with the tremendous gravity well thus theories are revised

I have a math model for the trinity( its not perfect)
lets say God = n

God the father is n
God the son is n
and God the Holy Spirit is n
thus each person in the trinity is God yet all together are God as well with no seperation.

thus n+n+n=n that would be 3n=n
if you divide by n you get 3=1
thing is its not a perfect model.( sorry im Just 17)

I believe in God I accept the miracles since they can’t explain how bread and wine can turn into a piece of a living heart that is fresh and survives with out bodily nurtients and blood that does not coagulate and “dies”(its considered a tissue, HOSA taught me this) after 1300 years. Thats unexplainable by physics or anyother science. And to happen at a Catholic Mass is even more surreal. There are many of these miracles that you can see with your own eyes and have been proved by medical science to be real, and human!

Thats just one reason why I believe.

If your searching for God in science/philosophy maybe all you have to do is look at it from a differnt angle kind of like Plato’s cavern. He and many of the greatest philosiphers believed In one God (socrates) A spirit (Plato)etc

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)uts cuz they are insightful and well thought out and the courtesy you show is very indicative your character!

 

[wolpertinger]

Kevan:

Are you saying that an intelligent being directed the selection?

Remember: if you are proceeding from an atheist presupposition, all you have “in the beginning” are particles. What is natural selection going to select from? There are no mind-boggling, overwhelmingly complex DNA codes to hiccup and produce beneficial mutations.

First design a scenario that’ll get us from hydrogen to biopolymers, then we can talk about how a long streak of lucky birth defects resulted in biology professors.

Sigh.

Atheist presupposition. Never leave the house without one, I used to say until I misplaced mine.

Explain abiogenesis? In the words of Douglas Adams: “Between ourselves I’d rather be trotting up the ha’aqa bin-j’Jabbli in my p’narma hat, heading for the rebel headquarters with a grenade under my q’jinjan.”

 

[Kevan]

“Between ourselves I’d rather be trotting up the ha’aqa bin-j’Jabbli in my p’narma hat, heading for the rebel headquarters with a grenade under my q’jinjan.”

Took the words right outta my mouth…

 

[zeek]

How can an athiest explain all of the miracles going on in the world? Specifically the Eucharist that was changed in to real flesh and blood? link:
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

For someone to have a good understanding of the makeup of the universe therefore must at least fear God in his ways. All knowledge comes from the fear of God, from fear of offending Him.

God is love, all of the good and evil of this world comes from a source. If one denies God they deny love, and if you do not have love you don’t have anything.

God Bless

Jesus truly lives and reigns forever.

 

[zeek]

I am no theologian but,

Jesus died on the cross for all people and He wants all people to believe in Him. Even if His people do not believe in Him, He still loves them and He is earnestly waiting to give them that love if they will accept. Archbishop Fulton Sheen stated (paraphrase) that if there is not freewill there is not good and evil, (to us there is not good and evil because if we knew no evil we wouldn’t know that good is good, i think, but outside our thoughts God exists and is good always) because there would not be a choice, we would be forced to think and conform to one thing. God loves us so much that He gave us free will to choose. Although He wants us to choose Him, to choose Life.

As the Gospel of Christ states: (paraphrase) What profit is it for a man if he gains the whole world (all knowledge of worldly things) yet looses his own soul. He also said if you don’t not believe in Me at least believe the His good works that you may believe that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. To believe that God does not exist denies life after death, denies love, denies all things that are worth living for in this world. God doesn’t want His people to wait until their final judgement between them and Christ to start believing, He wants them to believe now!
food for thought
thanks for listening and God Bless

Jesus truly lives and reigns forever.

 

[AnAtheist]

zeek:

How can an athiest explain all of the miracles going on in the world? Specifically the Eucharist that was changed in to real flesh and blood? link:
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

I hope I do not offend someone now, but I regard those so-called miracles has hoaxs, frauds and/or deceits. The scientific research done on the Lanciano miracle e.g. is not at all convincing. It proves the probe handed over to the scientist is real flesh. It says nothing about its age, no C14 age determination was done e.g.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

AnAtheist:

…I am not an atheist because I *want *to or because I don’t *want *God to exist, as many or most christians often think…

I personally think that many atheists would like to beleive God exists, but haven’t found enough compelling evidence that He does. Therefore they beleive He does not exist. To me, that does not constitute a desire for there to be no God.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

AnAtheist:

I hope I do not offend someone now, but I regard those so-called miracles has hoaxs, frauds and/or deceits…

I take no offence to your assertions because I don’t need proof that God exists in order to believe. You will never find enough proof that God exists. It takes a leap of faith to beleive in God. You have chosen to take a leap of faith that God does not exist. Likewise, I hope I did not offend you in the belief system you have chosen to follow.

 

[AnAtheist]

Stylteralmaldo:

I take no offence to your assertions because I don’t need proof that God exists in order to believe. You will never find enough proof that God exists. It takes a leap of faith to beleive in God. You have chosen to take a leap of faith that God does not exist.

Absolutely right.

Likewise, I hope I did not offend you in the belief system you have chosen to follow.

Not at all. You know, it is somewhat amusing when christians say, atheists take a leap of faith or it takes more faith not to believe than to believe. I suppose most atheists feel accused or insulted, when they hear that, as atheism is defined the lack of faith. It feels strange, that that lack should be a faith itself. I take it as a compliment, as strong faith is a positive trait among believers, isn’t it?

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

AnAtheist:

…I take it as a compliment, as strong faith is a positive trait among believers, isn’t it?

I’ll be honest, I view your belief in atheism as a negative. However, this is not exclusive to atheism for me. There are problems with other faiths as well that I view as negative.

The surest way to Heaven is to follow the Catholic Church’s teachings. Other faiths follow some of those teachings - this includes some atheists. My brother’s friend is an atheist: a great guy who is very charitable. He follows some Church teachings without really acknowledging he is doing it. The Holy Spirit is working through him. I am of the beleif that God gives us just enough Grace to follow Christ. Each individual choses his own path based on his own life experiences.

I am convinced that some day you will come to the realization that God exists. You may or may not chose to follow when this happens.

There are two types of atheists: (1) Those that truly beleive there is no God and (2) those that are obstinate when they know in their soul there is a God.

Based on what I’ve read by you thus far, you are of the first variety. I’ll pray for you. However, I know that this likely will not bother you since you are convinced that my prayers will do no good. Nonetheless, the Holy Spirit is moving me in this direction. Take care and great conversing with you.

 

[SCTA-1]

AnAtheist:

I hope I do not offend someone now, but I regard those so-called miracles has hoaxs, frauds and/or deceits. The scientific research done on the Lanciano miracle e.g. is not at all convincing. It proves the probe handed over to the scientist is real flesh. It says nothing about its age, no C14 age determination was done e.g.

Well,if your looking for a good bonafide miracle which will convince atheists look to Zeitoun,Egypt 1968-1971.The Virgin Mary appeared over an Egyptian Coptic Church for three years.Millions of people witnessed the event which included: Muslims,Christians,Jews and non-believers.All saw her.There were conversions by non-believers and also many healings.She would be on top of the Church and would bow before the cross.It was in all the newspapers and there were many photographs.Now, millions of witnesses over a three year period and even atheists got to see the heavenly being.A real miracle and real conversions.There’s a web site on it with all the evidence in the world.No fraud here, just real proof.Unbelievers say,“show me”, well here it is,one picture anyway: www.christusrex.org/www1/apparitions/pr00014.htm

 

[zeek]

that’s awesome, Praise the Lord! in regard to the miracle of Mary appearing in Egypt.

God does exist.

 

[AnAtheist]

SCTA-1:

Well,if your looking for a good bonafide miracle …].No fraud here, just real proof.Unbelievers say,“show me”

That is most astounding.
I have made a quick research, browsing half a dozen websites. Unfortunately I was not able to find a genuine newspaper article, just blurry pictures of them.
One question comes into my mind: If *millions *of people have witnessed that, why isn’t there a *single *photo, on which you can actually see something? Was there noone with an at least semi-professional camera?
The three or four picture I have seen, and I guess they are the best available otherwise they wouldn’t show up on the sites, have the quality of the average UFO- or Nessie-picture.

 

[catholicbudgie]

I suppose one question is unanswerable: Asuuming one believes in the “Big Bang” theory, and without exact empirical data it is just as valid a theory as any other, there remains one inalienable query:

What made it go BANG in the first place?

 

[SCTA-1]

AnAtheist:

That is most astounding.
I have made a quick research, browsing half a dozen websites. Unfortunately I was not able to find a genuine newspaper article, just blurry pictures of them.
One question comes into my mind: If *millions *of people have witnessed that, why isn’t there a *single *photo, on which you can actually see something? Was there noone with an at least semi-professional camera?
The three or four picture I have seen, and I guess they are the best available otherwise they wouldn’t show up on the sites, have the quality of the average UFO- or Nessie-picture.

The New York Times article is at : www.zeitun-eg.org/stmary14.htm and my bad eyes can make out what it says.You can scroll down and click on the main site and search whatever you like.The only thing I know is that this incident left President Gamel Nasser lost for answers because he could not discredit it because he was a Marxist. In the pictures I can see an outline of the Virgin with her hands folded in prayer.Would an alien bow before the cross? So many healings so many conversions.Oh well.

 

[wolpertinger]

I recommend for this thread to be closed at this point; it has veered way off-topic and is repetitive even in that. Any discussion of miracles can surely happen in a seperate thread?

 

[SCTA-1]

I guess if the pictures showed a common everyday woman on top of the church you would have said,and rightfully so, it’s just an Egyptian woman standing on top of the church.But since this is a heavenly being the glow is magnificent.I made her out in that picture with a halo and hands folded in prayer.In order for all those people to see her see needed to give off that beautiful glow.

 

[Carl]

The “miracle workers” need to give it up. No miracle is going to prove anything to an atheist. The miracle will always be explained away. Jesus did plenty of miracles, but that did not stop those who were determined not to believe from raising him up on a cross.

The object of persuasion is not to present a slam-dunk proof, but rather to point to a growing mass of evidence that there are too many suggestions for God and not enough for Nogod.

The great Isaac Newton himself climbed aboard the Bible Train. He applied his great mathematical skills to various books of prophecy in the Old and New Testament. Though he died in 1726, he was able to decipher in one of his calculations of prophecy that the Jews would be called to return to Israel about 1895-96. The First Zionist Congress was held in 1897. He also predicted that the Jews would return to Israel by 1944. The actual institution of the state of Israel was 1948, which no doubt took several years to plan and accomplish.

This is not quite in the nature of a miracle, but it has to give atheists pause to think. How is it that Scripture and Science came together to predict future events so remarkably accurate?