A sound bite?

[Bagheera]

I read it a while ago that the biggest stumbling block to Christianity are the christians themselves. Now this may just be a cute sound bite, it is nevertheless true. The trouble is that it is very vague; it carries no in-depth information. So what is you opinion, what are those features of christian people which constitute a stumbling block for the non-christians?

 

[TimothyH]

The biggest roadblock to evangelization are Christians who preach the Gospel but give evidence of it in their own lives.

People are told of a God of love and peace but see Christians cursing their neighbor, arguing with each other and angry all the time.

Hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.

They hear the Gospel but see hypocrisy. If we were actually a people of peace and joy then people would be drawn to us like moth’s to a flame.

-Tim-

 

[Randy_Carson]

I read it a while ago that the biggest stumbling block to Christianity are the christians themselves. Now this may just be a cute sound bite, it is nevertheless true. The trouble is that it is very vague; it carries no in-depth information. So what is you opinion, what are those features of christian people which constitute a stumbling block for the non-christians?

I believe the challenge is that non-Christians hear Christians talk about living according to the Bible, etc., but they fail to understand that Christians are still in the process of being purified. Thus, what appears to be hypocrisy (or what may actually be hypocrisy in some cases) rears its ugly head.

Of course, it does not help the situation that Christians are often in the position of having to explain to non-believers that the reason the unbeliever needs a savior is that they are sinners. Non-believers are often quite comfortable in their sin because they do not see it as such.

So, non-believers don’t want to hear the truth about sin, and they react by pointing out that the believer is not perfect, either. It’s a natural defense mechanism.

It’s also a spiritual battle.

 

[Polycarp1]

We don’t practice religion because we are holy, we do it because we’re not! The faith is perfect the faithful are not!

 

[steve_b]

I read it a while ago that the biggest stumbling block to Christianity are the christians themselves. Now this may just be a cute sound bite, it is nevertheless true.

unfortunately that’s true in many cases
B:

The trouble is that it is very vague; it carries no in-depth information.

True again
B:

So what is your opinion, what are those features of christian people which constitute a stumbling block for the non-christians?

There’s no question, division in Christianity is a HUGE stumbling block. It’s a HUGE scandal. To the world, It makes it look like Jesus doesn’t know what He’s doing. Which is EXACTLY why Jesus told this story in advance, Luke****14:28-30 because He knew in advance what history had in store, so He told us in advance what division does to Him and therefore what He wants, which is perfect unity within the hierarchy of His Church as well as the rank and file in the Church John 17:20-23 . He tells us Satan is the one sifting / dividing, and Jesus prays for Peter through the sifting that He will be the one to strenghthen the disciples and in extension the Church, through the sifting of Satan. Luke 22:24-32 and while sifting by Satan continues Jesus is one with His Church, and promises to support His Church, that He builds on Peter. He tells us in advance, those who divide from His Church do evil. They don’t serve Him they serve Satan…so don’t do it Romans 16:17-20 , and for those outside the Church either though their own division or maintaining division from His Church, will have serious consequences to face for not heeding the multiple warnings if they don’t return to unity with His Church. Galatians 5:19-21

Division IMV, in all it’s forms, is evidence Satan has lots of willing participants.

 

[fallow_spirit]

It think what the sound bite is trying to convey is that most Christians really do not care about they’re faith at all. They are Christians because their parents were Christians, everyone around them is a Christian so it just seems like something they should be as well; i.e. in the west Christianity has become something more cultural for most people instead of something people really care about. Going to church as also become sort of social thing instead of a time to worship God. Most Christians only go to church during Christmas and Easter. Those that do go every Sunday or at least once a month, usually go so that they can see their friends in a Bible study group, or eat donuts after the service. Very few that go regularly actually go solely so to worship their Creator.

So I think atheists see that Christianity teach that you’re supposed to love God and be completely devoted to him, be a servant to Jesus and other people, as well as having very strong moral teachings; and then that Christians don’t follow any of these teachings and honestly do not seem to care about any of them it turns the atheists off from the faith completely. I think most atheists know that they can be kind and good people without believing in God or Jesus, so what is the point of joining a church if seemingly the only purpose is to socialize and eat food. You can do that without having to join a religious group that you may not agree with.

It is the responsibility of us Christians to do something about this, to be more vigilant in practicing our faith we do not turn off any non-Christians that might be investigating the faith.

 

[Bagheera]

First, I want to thank you for your replies. Please keep them coming.

I think that the question is quite complicated. It is true that some christians do not live up their own standards, and it is true that some are hypocrites. The word “hypocrite” means more than simply teaching something, and not practicing it. It also involves a moving goalpost, when someone challenges their belief. Just an example which happened to me several times (of course that does not make it a “general” problem). I will present it in a short, dialog format.

Believer: For those who already believe, no evidence is necessary, for those who do not believe, no evidence is sufficient.
Skeptic: That is not true. Of course there could be sufficient, compelling evidence.
B: What would you find compelling evidence?
S: There could be many. The simplest would be a personal manifestation of God, so we all could ask for clarification of some problems which we find disturbing.
B: But then God would take your freedom away. God does not want to compel you to believe and love him.
S: My beliefs are not under volitional control. If I would actually know that God exists, then I could make a meaningful, informed decision whether to “love” (or worship) him or not.
B: So you would demand God, the creator of the universe to be at your beck and call? Don’t you find this presumptuous?

I hope you see the problem. There is an immediate, personal attack. The skeptic is asked a question, he answers, and then, instead of a civilized continuation… comes a personal attack. Observe, the skeptic does not “demand” anything, merely presents what he, personally would find a compelling solution to his problem. And this kind of dialog is quite frequent. As a matter of fact, I have never seen a different ending.

Of course, there are other problems. There is the “holier than thou” kind of attitude. (Taking a brick and pounding their own chest, while proclaiming: “you see how humble I am”?) There are the child molesting scandals. The problem there is not that there were a handful of “bad apples” (after all the overwhelming majority of the clergy would never do such things!), the problem was the attempt of cover-up. And since that came from the upper echelons of the church, many people find that practice inexcusable. It is justified to hold the bishops and the pope to a much higher standard than the everyday little priest.

Another problem is the church’s attitude toward sexual affairs. It is a huge turn-off for many people. If only the church would say that “people of the same sex also express their love toward each other”, and therefore their relationship cannot be intrinsically evil. If only the church would recognize that sex is more than just a tool for procreation. I know they “say” it is more than that, but then they deny their own words by stipulating that it must be “open to procreation”, no matter what (even if the couple is physically incapable of procreating).

Yet another one is the question of women and their role in the church. A huge turn-off for many people (and not just women). So the problem is complex and complicated.

 

[steve_b]

Another problem is the church’s attitude toward sexual affairs. It is a huge turn-off for many people. If only the church would say that “people of the same sex also express their love toward each other”, and therefore their relationship cannot be intrinsically evil. If only the church would recognize that sex is more than just a tool for procreation. I know they “say” it is more than that, but then they deny their own words by stipulating that it must be “open to procreation”, no matter what (even if the couple is physically incapable of procreating).

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Sins have consequences. One can’t diminish or ignore the warning or the consequence.
B:

one is the question of women and their role in the church. A huge turn-off for many people (and not just women). So the problem is complex and complicated.

Actually women have a huge role in the Church. Just look at all the positions they are in. They just can’t be ordained.

 

[Bagheera]

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Sins have consequences. One can’t diminish or ignore the warning or the consequence.

I am aware of this. The point is that not all people will accept this view. For them “love” between two people is “love”, not abomination, not something disgusting. Their love is precisely the same as two dedicated heterosexuals - whether married or not.

Actually women have a huge role in the Church. Just look at all the positions they are in. They just can’t be ordained.

Again, I am aware of this. I am talking about those people who see this as discrimination.

 

[steve_b]

I am aware of this. The point is that not all people will accept this view. For them “love” between two people is “love”, not abomination, not something disgusting. Their love is precisely the same as two dedicated heterosexuals - whether married or not.

And many people I’m sure don’t like the reality of cause and effect. But they can neither wish it away, nor ignore it.
B:

Again, I am aware of this. I am talking about those people who see this as discrimination.

It doesn’t mean it is.