A SSPX celebration of the Mass

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I am sorry if this has already been discussed in other threads, but I wanted to ask a question. If the answer lies in another, older thread, please help direct me there.

In another thread I made this statment:
You should not attend a SSPX mass if another licit mass is available, as while their mass is a valid consectration of the Eucharist, it is currently an illicit celebration of it, similar to the Eastern Orthodox.
and then I got to thinking…is this acutally correct? What is the status of a mass celebrated by a SSPX priest from the standpoint of Rome? Should we as Catholics in comunion with Rome be discouraged from attending due to the celebration being illicit, as I stated, or am I incorrect? Please help my understanding on this.

Thank you so much!
 
I am sorry if this has already been discussed in other threads, but I wanted to ask a question. If the answer lies in another, older thread, please help direct me there.

In another thread I made this statment:

and then I got to thinking…is this acutally correct? What is the status of a mass celebrated by a SSPX priest from the standpoint of Rome? Should we as Catholics in comunion with Rome be discouraged from attending due to the celebration being illicit, as I stated, or am I incorrect? Please help my understanding on this.

Thank you so much!
Part of your statement is correct. The mass celebrated by any suspended priest is illegal. As such, it should be avoided. As kindly as the SSPX priests are, unfortunately, their legal status is the same as that of a priest who is suspended for some other moral or legal fault. A suspension is a suspension. It means that the priest loses the right to celebrate mass for the public. The public who attends his mass is encouraging the disobedience, even though it may not be the intention of the man in the pew.

The Church has said that attending mass at an SSPX chapel to fulfill one’s Sunday obligation is permissible, but discouraged. This has not been retracted. In essence, it is applied to those who need the EF and don’t have one available to them.

Part of your statement is incorrect. Divine Liturgy (mass) celebrated by the Eastern Othodox is valid and licit. There is nothing illegal about it. The Catholic Church has no authority to suspend Orthodox priests. That can only be done by the Orthodox hierarchy.

Suspension is a canonical act. There are three codes of Canon Law.
  1. Canon Law for the Latin Church
  2. Canon Law for the Oriental Churches (Eastern Catholics)
  3. Canon Law for the Orthodox Churches
The third code of Canon Law, for the Orthodox Churches, is written and promulgated by them, not by us. None of our Codes of Canon Law apply to them, to Protestants, Muslims or Jews. They apply only to us. When our code says that we cannot receive Communion at Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Orthodox Church, unless certain requirements are met, the law is speaking to Catholics, not to the Orthodox. It’s not telling the Orthodox that they can’t offer Holy Communion to Catholics. It’s telling Catholics that we can’t go to Holy Communion at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy unless we have permission to do so. As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the Orthodox priests can do whatever their hierarchy allows them to do.

The case with the SSPX priests is different. As long as they profess to be Roman Catholic, they are bound by Canon Law for the Latin Church. Our code of law explicitly says that a suspended priest may not celebrate the sacraments, except in a life and death situation.

This has gotten very tricky for many of the SSPX priests, because on the one hand, the Society invokes Canon Law to defend itself in certain situations and on the other hand, it rejects some canons or appeals to the Code of 1917, which is not in effect.

This proved so problematic for some of the SSPX priests that they left the Society after the excommunication and suspension. That’s how the FSSP came into existence. The FSSP will tell you that it is very difficult to live inside the law in some instances and outside the law in other instances. That’s why they choose to join the FSSP rather than the SSPX.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Brother JR, thank you for your clarification. But please help me in understanding the rules for a Catholic receiving the Eucharist during an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Thank you!
 
Brother JR, thank you for your clarification. But please help me in understanding the rules for a Catholic receiving the Eucharist during an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Thank you!
You may want to ask that in the EC Forum, because I’m not too knowledgeable about that. I know that many Eastern Catholics in Europe had to make use of Orthodox churches, because religion was suppressed by Communism. Those poor people had to attend mass where they could find one.

I believe that you must get permission from the priest who is celebrating the Divine Liturgy. I also believe that there must be a good reason to attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Curiosity is not a good reason. At the end of the day, you can attend a Greek Catholic Divine Liturgy and it’s the same as a Greek Orthodox. They both use the Byzantine Rite. There is no need to be curious outside of the Catholic Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Bro JR I was confused by your last couple of sentences. Just to clarify I think you said:

If you are curious about the Byzantine rite then attend a Greek Catholic Church: there’s no need to look outside the Catholic Church in order to attend a Byzantine Liturgy.
 
Our code of law explicitly says that a suspended priest may not celebrate the sacraments, except in a life and death situation.
I wonder what life or death situation moves the Pope to allow the SSPX to offer Mass at St. Peter’s Basillica in Rome at will and without condition? Perhaps the Pope has determined that the code you believe most obviously applies here doesn’t apply at all?
 
I wonder what life or death situation moves the Pope to allow the SSPX to offer Mass at St. Peter’s Basillica in Rome at will and without condition? Perhaps the Pope has determined that the code you believe most obviously applies here doesn’t apply at all?
Does the SSPX currently celebrate the mass regularly at St. Peter’s?
 
Bro JR I was confused by your last couple of sentences. Just to clarify I think you said:

If you are curious about the Byzantine rite then attend a Greek Catholic Church: there’s no need to look outside the Catholic Church in order to attend a Byzantine Liturgy.
Some people want to experience the Eastern Liturgy and they think that the only way to do so is to attend a Divine Liturgy in an Orthodox Church. However, almost every Orthodox Church has a Catholic counterpart, since the Orthodox did not break communion with the Roman Church. They were never part of the Roman Church. For example, Greek Orthodox were Greek Catholics. The Greek Catholic Church is not Roman Catholic, but it is Catholic. It uses the same Byzantine Rite as the Greek Orthodox. It is an independent Church, but it is in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The same is true for the other 22 Catholic Churches. They all celebrate the same Divine Liturgy as the Orthodox, using different Eastern Rites and are independent Churches, but in full communion with the Roman Church.

If one wants to have a Byzantine experience, one can attend a Greek Catholic Divine Liturgy. If one wants a Chaldean experience, one can attend the Chaldean Catholic Church and so forth.
I wonder what life or death situation moves the Pope to allow the SSPX to offer Mass at St. Peter’s Basillica in Rome at will and without condition? Perhaps the Pope has determined that the code you believe most obviously applies here doesn’t apply at all?
First of all, let’s clarify one misconception. The Holy Father has no control over St. Peter’s Basilica. St. Peter’s is not a parish church nor a cathedral. The Holy Father’s parish is St. John Lateran. He is it’s pastor. Therefore, he has no idea who celebrates mass in the Basicilica, nor is he consulted or informed. The Basilica has its own rector. Permission to celebrate mass in the Basilica is obtained through the Basilica’s administration, just like any other basilica.

Secondly, the SSPX have been given permission to celebrate mass at one of the side altars in St. Peter’s. This permission is not open ended. They have to ask for it each time they want to do so. When they do so, they are asking for permission for the individual priest to celebrate the mass. They are not asking to celebrate a public mass.

Thirdly, Canon Law says that the priest who can prove that he is validly ordained must be allowed access to a public church to celebrate mass. They certainly can prove that they are validly ordained. Canon Law does not require that the person be legally ordained or that he have faculties to celebrate such a mass, since it’s not a public mass.

Finally, if you observe, the SSPX clergy are never invited to any public liturgical function at the Vatican or sponsored by the Vatican, such as canonizations, high holy days such as Christmas, ordinations, World Youth Day, etc. On the other hand, the Orthodox and Anglicans are always invited, even though they cannot concelebrate. You see them in seats of honor in the front row. The other Ecclesia Dei institutes are invited as well, such as the FSSP. But they are allowed to concelebrate. Suspended clergy cannot concelebrate in such liturgical functions. Hopefully, this will soon be remedied. Crossing my fingers here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
I googled SSPX saying mass in St. Peter’s and the only thing I could find was a post which suggested it was almost a “covert operation.”

arsorandi.blogspot.com/2009/09/sspx-mass-in-st-peters.html
I don’t know about covert. You don’t have to say that you’re suspended. If they follow Canon Law, the only thing that the person has to prove is that he’s a Catholic priest. In some cases, even an Orthodox priest may ask to celebrate, because they are validly ordained priests. I believe that there is a chapel that accommodates the Divine Liturgy for the benefit of the Eastern Catholics. Not working there, I’m not sure how one goes about getting permission.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Well I’m glad it’s not covert, and your explanation makes total sense. Thanks.
 
They’re not in trouble with the Holy See. Nor are they suspended or excommunicated. Their ancestors were, but not them. The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Orthodox Patriarchs have very good relations with the Holy See and personal relationships with the Holy Father. When the Holy Father extends his hand out to them, they reciprocate to please him. For example, when Pope Paul VI lifted all of the excommunications against the Orthodox and all of the anathemas, the Orthodox Patriarchs reciprocated by lifting the excommunications and anathemas against Rome. There is the difference.

Inviting the SSPX clergy to be special guests at an event is like grounding your child for being naughty and they taking him out to the movies. That sends a very mixed message to the child.

My guess is that the Holy See wants to send a very consistent message to the SSPX, that is that if they profess to be Catholic, they have to earn their place among the Catholic clergy like any other Catholic. Remember, I said that this is my guess, based on different statements that the Holy Father has made about the SSPX. I’m not privy to anything.

My take from his statements is that he loves them as a parent loves a child who misbehaves. He’s willing to give them the attention that every child of the Church deserves, but he is not prepared to reward them. His office can’t invite them to be the Holy Father’s guests at an event, because they’re Catholic. No Catholic is a guest at a Catholic event. Every Catholic has the right to attend a Catholic mass.

At the same time, the Apostolic Office cannot invite them to sit with the other clergy as equals, while they’re still under restrictions. That was the big issue with the excommunicated Chinese bishop who concelebrated at a recent ordination. The Vatican said that it was inappropriate. If you’re in trouble, you can’t sit at the table until you do whatever you have to do to earn it.

We really need to encourage them to do whatever they have to do to earn their place among the rest of the Catholic clergy. I believe the Holy Father is being genuine when he said that he is concerned about what will happen to these priests if they are not brought back into the family. It’s not just a matter of them walking away and forming their own Church. It’s a matter of Catholic brethren living out there as orphans. No Catholic should be an orphan, if it can be helped.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
As to how to “earn it,” the answer frankly has become convoluted. On one hand, there are calls to “accept Vatican II and its teachings ( the Society has not rejected the Council, but merely pointed out that there are certain troubling statements),” but on the other hand the Holy See put out a press release saying that certain parts of that same council are open for legitimate discussion ( in other words, debate). I honestly don’t see what the problem is at this point. Am I missing something?
 
As to how to “earn it,” the answer frankly has become convoluted. On one hand, there are calls to “accept Vatican II and its teachings ( the Society has not rejected the Council, but merely pointed out that there are certain troubling statements),” but on the other hand the Holy See put out a press release saying that certain parts of that same council are open for legitimate discussion ( in other words, debate). I honestly don’t see what the problem is at this point. Am I missing something?
Robert, I’m curious as to why you have "SSPX supporter" as part your religious affiliation. Do you attend SSPX masses?
 
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